expensive?
- Thread starter shinifish
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Caine
Hardcore Member
Hi shinifish, welcome to the boards.
Why do you think so? Many smartphones with similar capabilities are more expensive (when purchased without subscription).
If you can produce it cheaper with the same specs then please do so.
Why do you think so? Many smartphones with similar capabilities are more expensive (when purchased without subscription).
If you can produce it cheaper with the same specs then please do so.
diligentcircle
Well-Known Member
Yeah, smartphones and the like make themselves seem much less expensive than they really are. Example: the original Nintendo DS cost something like $120, but if you bought 10 $30 games, you really spent $420. (Smartphones get you with expensive data plans if I'm not mistaken, though having to pay for proprietary apps can drain your wallet, too.)
Mr Rob
Active Member
Plus there are other details, too. The motherboard for the device is surprisingly complicated when compared to a typical smartphone, as there's simply more there in terms of inputs and the like.
I take it you're contemplating purchasing it? I have one and it's pretty much my favorite device.
I take it you're contemplating purchasing it? I have one and it's pretty much my favorite device.
shinifish
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Well I am not an expert just wondering but,
You can get a smartphone for 100-120 dollars full price I believe, unless they are subsidizing it but that is unlikely due to the fact it is a prepaid phone.Note that it isn't a extremely high end phone ex not one of the phones that the companies want you to really buy but it is still a good quality phone.
The Nintendo ds original probably was inexpensive because it is a dedicated system and has very few functions other than playing its games making it simpler and therefore easier/cheaper to produce but some subsidies probably also came into effect here.
I am interested in buying one but because I am still a student I have very little money so I would have to save for like a year to afford one unless the conversion rate of dollars to euros goes significantly up.
You can get a smartphone for 100-120 dollars full price I believe, unless they are subsidizing it but that is unlikely due to the fact it is a prepaid phone.Note that it isn't a extremely high end phone ex not one of the phones that the companies want you to really buy but it is still a good quality phone.
The Nintendo ds original probably was inexpensive because it is a dedicated system and has very few functions other than playing its games making it simpler and therefore easier/cheaper to produce but some subsidies probably also came into effect here.
I am interested in buying one but because I am still a student I have very little money so I would have to save for like a year to afford one unless the conversion rate of dollars to euros goes significantly up.
Darkknight512
Active Member
I think ED (part of the OpenPandora Team) stated that it costs 200 euros to produce a board, but if they make 10 000 of them, then the cost is almost half. (At once, not over time)
But yea, other then economies of scale, really it is not that much for what your getting in terms of hardware. Take a look at the Pandaboard and Beagleboard, they cost about 150-200 dollars, but they lack a keyboard/controls, touchscreen, LCD, speakers, battery and a case, that all together must add up to atleast 100 dollars or more.
In the end I think it costs 350 dollars to make a Pandora, The selling price is much higher because money had been lost because the price of production has gone up pas the pre-order price. Therefore more money has to be made off each Pandora now to make up for it and so that OPT can make a profit and put some of that towards development of Pandora 2 someday,
But yea, other then economies of scale, really it is not that much for what your getting in terms of hardware. Take a look at the Pandaboard and Beagleboard, they cost about 150-200 dollars, but they lack a keyboard/controls, touchscreen, LCD, speakers, battery and a case, that all together must add up to atleast 100 dollars or more.
In the end I think it costs 350 dollars to make a Pandora, The selling price is much higher because money had been lost because the price of production has gone up pas the pre-order price. Therefore more money has to be made off each Pandora now to make up for it and so that OPT can make a profit and put some of that towards development of Pandora 2 someday,
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Darkknight512
Active Member
Part time job out of the question? Where do you live, there is probably quite a bit of snow falling on a large part of the planet right now
Unfortunately I think the price for a Pandora might go up if the Euro vs USD ratio drops, I think many of the parts are bought with USD, but since the team is holding onto euros, that can pose a problem.
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shinifish
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A real part time job is out of the question, but I could go shovel snow when it snows but I have no snow as of now. Oh no that may be a problem but hopefully it will have no impact on the prices if the pandoras are all built which they probably will be by the time I buy it.Part time job out of the question? Where do you live, there is probably quite a bit of snow falling on a large part of the planet right now
Unfortunately I think the price for a Pandora might go up if the Euro vs USD ratio drops, I think many of the parts are bought with USD, but since the team is holding onto euros, that can pose a problem.
diligentcircle
Well-Known Member
But if you do that, you miss out on Super Geometry Dust.
In all seriousness, I'm sure the iControlPad is a great purchase if you have a smartphone you can use it with (I don't, so I wouldn't know).
which is available on the iOS appstore, and highly recommend anyone owning an iDevice to purchase and support our great wermy, and of course the app works great with iCP. the game is another a different name though to prevent licensing issues, the names slipping my mind right now because i have music blasting out of my headphones thoughBut if you do that, you miss out on Super Geometry Dust.
MarioPandio
Well-Known Member
Vertex Blaster is a slightly souped up Super Geometry Dust for iOS
skeezix
Internal Development
Phones are heavily subsidized; look up a modern smartphone with no plan, and usually they're $400-$600 or more. This has been true for some years .. curre3nt smartphones always that range, and Pandora is more or less same as one of those from a year or two back. (Considerably the same actually.)
jeff
jeff
Mr_Loon
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At approx £400 delivered to the the UK, the Pandora is expensive, certainly too expensive for mass market appeal.
I must admit that if I did not know any background to the Pandora project & had no real knowledge of the excellent community then on finding out about the Pandora my reaction would be something like :
Wow, that seems like a dream device, love the form factor, control set, battery life etc., right, I'm going to buy one, hang on, £400, that can't be right!
I seriously doubt that I'd make that purchase, however I know that if I did then I would have no regrets whatsoever. It is the best tech device I've ever owned & it still has no real direct competition, when you look at it as a mini laptop with built in gaming controls.
I must admit that if I did not know any background to the Pandora project & had no real knowledge of the excellent community then on finding out about the Pandora my reaction would be something like :
Wow, that seems like a dream device, love the form factor, control set, battery life etc., right, I'm going to buy one, hang on, £400, that can't be right!
I seriously doubt that I'd make that purchase, however I know that if I did then I would have no regrets whatsoever. It is the best tech device I've ever owned & it still has no real direct competition, when you look at it as a mini laptop with built in gaming controls.
I've heard this argument over and over and i don't buy it one bit. Sure, it's true that sourcing and manufacturing is expensive when it's your first crack at it, but the Pyra is the next generation. The Pandora has been around for years now.
When you consider that the cost of a 64bit quadcore ARM motherboard like the Pi3 is less than 50$ USD on the market, and even spinnor board like the Banana pi or odroid run similar prices, it's safe to assume that the Pandora's motherboard could easilly be manufactured at a most of less than 50USD per, more likely 20 if they had them made in korea. Shells can be 3D printed or mas produced in china for next to nothing, even in small batches, displays can be mas ordered for cheap. Batteries are the only real cost due to taxes and weight.
Either the makers are playing you all with crazy markup, or they seriously need to look at their production methods.
I can tell you that for 800 USD I can get a i5 laptop, this is just.... sad.
When you consider that the cost of a 64bit quadcore ARM motherboard like the Pi3 is less than 50$ USD on the market, and even spinnor board like the Banana pi or odroid run similar prices, it's safe to assume that the Pandora's motherboard could easilly be manufactured at a most of less than 50USD per, more likely 20 if they had them made in korea. Shells can be 3D printed or mas produced in china for next to nothing, even in small batches, displays can be mas ordered for cheap. Batteries are the only real cost due to taxes and weight.
Either the makers are playing you all with crazy markup, or they seriously need to look at their production methods.
I can tell you that for 800 USD I can get a i5 laptop, this is just.... sad.
^ This necro is sad, since it shows that in spite of ED's ongoing efforts to make the whole production process and financing transparent, even 5 years later people still haven't got a clue about how it goes in reality and tell the same prejudiced nonsense over and over again.
Eight Bit
Hardcore Member
Gawd... Get an i5 laptop and troll somewhere else...
Just.... sad.
Just.... sad.
Caine
Hardcore Member
Welcome to the boards @Rushlight.
Coming into a community and insulting people for either their integrity or capability is not the best way to introduce yourself.
I am not sure what you hope to achieve with this post, the pricing will not change anymore at this point anyway.
That said, since you can obviously do better, I am looking forward to what device you will be bringing to the market.
Coming into a community and insulting people for either their integrity or capability is not the best way to introduce yourself.
I am not sure what you hope to achieve with this post, the pricing will not change anymore at this point anyway.
That said, since you can obviously do better, I am looking forward to what device you will be bringing to the market.
Easy, it's the mass:
Development costs for a smartphone: Probably about 2 - 3 EUR per device (as millions are being sold).
Production costs for a high-end-smartphone (like an iphone): about 200 EUR.
Developments costs for the Pyra: About 200 EUR per device (with 1000 sold).
Production costs for a Pyra (4G-Version): About 380 EUR per device.
So yes, it's quantity, especially the development costs.
We spent around 200k EUR for development and even though most smartphones have higher development costs, they are are lot less per device as so many are being sold.
With 2000 units sold, the development costs per device are only half as much - but we don't have any funds to finance that upfront, so we can't lower the price to hope we sell a lot more of them right now.
That the Pyra is the successor of the Pandora hasn't helped one bit:
It's a completely new device made from scratch, as all designers have changed and therefore nothing could've been reused (except for the basic clamshell design and stuff we learned from the Pandora).
So it wasn't any cheaper in development.
However, that's one of the reasons we made the Pyra modular. We don't need to restart from scratch, so any future versions will be cheaper.
Development costs for a smartphone: Probably about 2 - 3 EUR per device (as millions are being sold).
Production costs for a high-end-smartphone (like an iphone): about 200 EUR.
Developments costs for the Pyra: About 200 EUR per device (with 1000 sold).
Production costs for a Pyra (4G-Version): About 380 EUR per device.
So yes, it's quantity, especially the development costs.
We spent around 200k EUR for development and even though most smartphones have higher development costs, they are are lot less per device as so many are being sold.
With 2000 units sold, the development costs per device are only half as much - but we don't have any funds to finance that upfront, so we can't lower the price to hope we sell a lot more of them right now.
That the Pyra is the successor of the Pandora hasn't helped one bit:
It's a completely new device made from scratch, as all designers have changed and therefore nothing could've been reused (except for the basic clamshell design and stuff we learned from the Pandora).
So it wasn't any cheaper in development.
However, that's one of the reasons we made the Pyra modular. We don't need to restart from scratch, so any future versions will be cheaper.
