Dock ports?

[fusion_power]

Is a dock really needed for the Pyra? I mean you can basicly plug in every important device directly like Mouse+Keyboard, Monitor, USB devices... The Pyra itself is actualy the perfect docking station. ^^ 

 

[rygD]

Is a dock really needed for the Pyra? I mean you can basicly plug in every important device directly like Mouse+Keyboard, Monitor, USB devices... The Pyra itself is actualy the perfect docking station. ^^ 

Needed? No.  

Wanted?  I will let you decide...

 

[Binky]

A dock has the advantage that plugging in all your peripherals becomes one action, rather than 5.

 

[Glyph Reader]

A dock has the advantage that plugging in all your peripherals becomes one action, rather than 5.

Don't forget more ports!

-Glyph Reader

 

[fusion_power]

A dock has the advantage that plugging in all your peripherals becomes one action, rather than 5.

I would so or so have to unplug the peripherals first from my PC because I only have on piece of each.  If people have spare screens and input devices for permanent Pyra usage, then of course an docking station is the better solution. ^^

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Is a dock really needed for the Pyra? I mean you can basicly plug in every important device directly like Mouse+Keyboard, Monitor, USB devices... The Pyra itself is actualy the perfect docking station. ^^

You don't need two kidneys to live. But it's nice to have

 

[Silent-Hunter]

LOL oh god!

 

[Wally]

Is a dock really needed for the Pyra? I mean you can basicly plug in every important device directly like Mouse+Keyboard, Monitor, USB devices... The Pyra itself is actualy the perfect docking station. ^^ 

I reckon just for the extra USB ports and potential charging station is just enough

 

[thatgui]

5VDC rail on PSU: It will need to be able to provide at least 5VDC @3A to charge the Pyra while it is operating at maximum draw. If we want it to have a USB hub in it capable of running an external DVD drive, then add at least 2A to the 5VDC rail. If we want the USB 3.0 host on the dock to be able to handle the whole USB 3.0 spec, we'll need ANOTHER 3A PER USB 3.0 host. Then add 1A for each USB 2.0 host. With the Pyra, ONE USB 3.0 host, FOUR USB 2.0 hosts that is 10A at 5VDC.

Why do you think 3A are necessary for the Pyra alone ?

We also have a eSATA port that, while on just the Pyra, is missing the 12VDC rail entirely and will not be able to spin up anything bigger than a notebook HDD. I'm assuming we won't want this restriction on the dock's eSATA port - so, we need around 1A at 12VDC for this.

Is this really needed ? Notebooks usually only provide non 12V eSATAp ports too, as far as I know they only exist on (some) desktop system. But if you are sitting in front of an immobile System, there isn't a big hassle involved in just plugging in another power supply, so why invest money in it ?

Now, IMHO we should bump it up a notch and have a talk about doing an order through these guys.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/215201435/dart-the-worlds-smallest-laptop-adapter

Is it already set in stone that they get FCC (and european) clearance for their UHF Emitter ? Look like a little bit to good to be true..OT: WTF? They need a strechgoal of 500000 USD to include a socket and a plug into the design ? I wonder how they manage (appliance side) voltage level adaption.

Speaking of which - my wife's comment when she catches me using my Pandora: "The Keebler elves called. They want their computer back."

 

HDMI 1.4 supports 4K at 30Hz, which should be enough bandwidth for 4 full HD images at 30Hz or 2 full HD images at 60Hz. So the bottleneck should not be with the HDMI itself. How exactly the image splitting would be implemented, I don't know -- I don't know anything about that kind of stuff, but I think it should be possible in principle.

I thought you had a specific solution in mind. So I guess we can safely say there will be only one HDMI out.

 

[_wb_]

HDMI 1.4 supports 4K at 30Hz, which should be enough bandwidth for 4 full HD images at 30Hz or 2 full HD images at 60Hz. So the bottleneck should not be with the HDMI itself. How exactly the image splitting would be implemented, I don't know -- I don't know anything about that kind of stuff, but I think it should be possible in principle.

I thought you had a specific solution in mind. So I guess we can safely say there will be only one HDMI out.

I hope the design of the docking station is not defined by my limited (or rather non-existent) knowledge of how to implement video output. Getting the option of a dual-monitor setup would be pretty neat (even if two times full HD turns out to be not feasible for some reason, just having two times 720p or so would already be nice).

 

[Grench]

5VDC rail on PSU: It will need to be able to provide at least 5VDC @3A to charge the Pyra while it is operating at maximum draw. If we want it to have a USB hub in it capable of running an external DVD drive, then add at least 2A to the 5VDC rail. If we want the USB 3.0 host on the dock to be able to handle the whole USB 3.0 spec, we'll need ANOTHER 3A PER USB 3.0 host. Then add 1A for each USB 2.0 host. With the Pyra, ONE USB 3.0 host, FOUR USB 2.0 hosts that is 10A at 5VDC.

Why do you think 3A are necessary for the Pyra alone ?

I assume you'll want the Pyra on the dock both working and charging.The Pyra can consume 1A to 2A from the battery during operation.

That leaves 1A to 2A to charge the Pyra's battery over the top of the in-use Pyra.

We also have a eSATA port that, while on just the Pyra, is missing the 12VDC rail entirely and will not be able to spin up anything bigger than a notebook HDD. I'm assuming we won't want this restriction on the dock's eSATA port - so, we need around 1A at 12VDC for this.

Is this really needed ? Notebooks usually only provide non 12V eSATAp ports too, as far as I know they only exist on (some) desktop system. But if you are sitting in front of an immobile System, there isn't a big hassle involved in just plugging in another power supply, so why invest money in it ?

Invest in it because it is a dock. It is where you put your Pyra to use the Pyra as a desktop replacement.If I have an eSATA port on a desktop, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.

If I connect an eSATA to a notebook docking station, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.

Now, IMHO we should bump it up a notch and have a talk about doing an order through these guys.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/215201435/dart-the-worlds-smallest-laptop-adapter

Is it already set in stone that they get FCC (and european) clearance for their UHF Emitter ? Look like a little bit to good to be true..OT: WTF? They need a strechgoal of 500000 USD to include a socket and a plug into the design ? I wonder how they manage (appliance side) voltage level adaption.

No idea. I'm not even a backer on that one. The thought of having a 65W DC adapter the size of a pack of chewing gum fascinates me though. They may not even be in production in time for the Pyra's dock.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

5VDC rail on PSU: It will need to be able to provide at least 5VDC @3A to charge the Pyra while it is operating at maximum draw. If we want it to have a USB hub in it capable of running an external DVD drive, then add at least 2A to the 5VDC rail. If we want the USB 3.0 host on the dock to be able to handle the whole USB 3.0 spec, we'll need ANOTHER 3A PER USB 3.0 host. Then add 1A for each USB 2.0 host. With the Pyra, ONE USB 3.0 host, FOUR USB 2.0 hosts that is 10A at 5VDC.

Why do you think 3A are necessary for the Pyra alone ?

I assume you'll want the Pyra on the dock both working and charging.
The Pyra can consume 1A to 2A from the battery during operation.


That leaves 1A to 2A to charge the Pyra's battery over the top of the in-use Pyra.

We also have a eSATA port that, while on just the Pyra, is missing the 12VDC rail entirely and will not be able to spin up anything bigger than a notebook HDD. I'm assuming we won't want this restriction on the dock's eSATA port - so, we need around 1A at 12VDC for this.

Is this really needed ? Notebooks usually only provide non 12V eSATAp ports too, as far as I know they only exist on (some) desktop system. But if you are sitting in front of an immobile System, there isn't a big hassle involved in just plugging in another power supply, so why invest money in it ?

Invest in it because it is a dock. It is where you put your Pyra to use the Pyra as a desktop replacement.
If I have an eSATA port on a desktop, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.


If I connect an eSATA to a notebook docking station, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.

Now, IMHO we should bump it up a notch and have a talk about doing an order through these guys.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/215201435/dart-the-worlds-smallest-laptop-adapter

Is it already set in stone that they get FCC (and european) clearance for their UHF Emitter ? Look like a little bit to good to be true..
OT: WTF? They need a strechgoal of 500000 USD to include a socket and a plug into the design ? I wonder how they manage (appliance side) voltage level adaption.

No idea. I'm not even a backer on that one. The thought of having a 65W DC adapter the size of a pack of chewing gum fascinates me though. They may not even be in production in time for the Pyra's dock.

At least the CEO there is pretty cute

 

[thatgui]

I hope the design of the docking station is not defined by my limited (or rather non-existent) knowledge of how to implement video output. Getting the option of a dual-monitor setup would be pretty neat (even if two times full HD turns out to be not feasible for some reason, just having two times 720p or so would already be nice).

I doubt ED wants to put that much engineering effort in the dock > while it may be technically possible it seems not to be feasible. Maybe others know more, but I have yet to find such a solution for any device out there.

The Pyra can consume 1A to 2A from the battery during operation.

Could you give me more details about that ?

Invest in it because it is a dock. It is where you put your Pyra to use the Pyra as a desktop replacement.

If I have an eSATA port on a desktop, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.

If I connect an eSATA to a notebook docking station, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.

So? eSATA is in itself a niché product (never understood why it was introduced into the market anyway) and support on the Pyra was only introduced because the SoC already had support for it, and the costs were minimal. Introducing a 12V rail would include a lot more costs as it would need to be designed specifically, with only a small portion of the possible target group having a slight increase in convenience.

No idea. I'm not even a backer on that one. The thought of having a 65W DC adapter the size of a pack of chewing gum fascinates me though. They may not even be in production in time for the Pyra's dock.

It would be nice to have - even if it would only be offered as option instead the "standard" brick by ED.

At least the CEO there is pretty cute

Thats debateable

 

[Neelix]

Introducing a 12V rail would include a lot more costs as it would need to be designed specifically, with only a small portion of the possible target group having a slight increase in convenience.

I call bullshit on that.  Voltage conversion from 12v to 5v is really pretty simple and can be done with a cheap off the shelf part.  Including both 5 and 12 volt rails would be a simple matter that makes a lot of sense in this context. 

- Neelix

 

[thatgui]

Introducing a 12V rail would include a lot more costs as it would need to be designed specifically, with only a small portion of the possible target group having a slight increase in convenience.

 I call bullshit on that.  Voltage conversion from 12v to 5v is really pretty simple and can be done with a cheap off the shelf part.  Including both 5 and 12 volt rails would be a simple matter that makes a lot of sense in this context. 

- Neelix

Why the harsh language ? Anyway, that depends on what you call "cheap" DC/DC converters are in the range of 3-4€ (afaik) + some additonal components + engineering time. Just for the sake of having a 12v+ rail on the eSATA port ? Or do you see any other potential uses for the 12V rail ?
Edit: Regarding the pricing of the DC/DC converter, I'm not sure wether it will be 3-4€ or more, the ones I remembered in that price range only had a max. current of 200mA, which seems a little low for powering a 3.5" hdd.

 

[Neelix]

I call bullshit on that.  Voltage conversion from 12v to 5v is really pretty simple and can be done with a cheap off the shelf part.  Including both 5 and 12 volt rails would be a simple matter that makes a lot of sense in this context.

Why the harsh language ? Anyway, that depends on what you call "cheap" DC/DC converters are in the range of 3-4€ (afaik) + some additonal components + engineering time. Just for the sake of having a 12v+ rail on the eSATA port ? Or do you see any other potential uses for the 12V rail ?

Edit: Regarding the pricing of the DC/DC converter, I'm not sure wether it will be 3-4€ or more, the ones I remembered in that price range only had a max. current of 200mA, which seems a little low for powering a 3.5" hdd.

As for the language, I'm an Aussie,   that's just how we speak around these parts.

This is what I had in mind:  http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZV1505&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=974#1

AUD$1.50 for 5v @ 1A  for a single unit. I imagine they are somewhat cheaper when ordered in bulk.  

As for the engineering time,   using one of these is first year electronics stuff.   I've built a circuit to do exactly that same conversion on veroboard.  There really isn't much to it.

- Neelix

 

[_wb_]

 

Invest in it because it is a dock. It is where you put your Pyra to use the Pyra as a desktop replacement.


If I have an eSATA port on a desktop, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.


If I connect an eSATA to a notebook docking station, I expect the 12VDC rail to be live.

So? eSATA is in itself a niché product (never understood why it was introduced into the market anyway) and support on the Pyra was only introduced because the SoC already had support for it, and the costs were minimal. Introducing a 12V rail would include a lot more costs as it would need to be designed specifically, with only a small portion of the possible target group having a slight increase in convenience.

eSATA is useful because SATA 2.0 (the one OMAP5 supports) can do transfer at 300MB/s, while USB 2.0 (the one OMAP5 supports for all but one of its ports) can do only 35MB/s. SATA 3.0 can do 600MB/s and USB 3.0 can do 500MB/s, so it would make sense to have a SATA to USB convertor on the docking station so you can use SATA 3.0 devices and get near max speed using the Pyra's micro-USB 3.0.

12V makes sense to have not just for an eSATAp port, but also if you want to implement my idea of having some room inside the docking station to install standard desktop PC components, like a DVD writer, 3.5" hard disk, or whatever it is you want to use with your Pyra.

Another potential advantage of getting power in at 12V in the docking station, is that you can then directly use the docking station with an automotive battery, e.g. in an RV you could basically plug in the docking station straight to the the 12V DC power those motorhome batteries provide. That would be the ultimate autonomous computing setup

 

[thatgui]

This is what I had in mind:  http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZV1505&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=974#1

AUD$1.50 for 5v @ 1A  for a single unit. I imagine they are somewhat cheaper when ordered in bulk.  

As for the engineering time,   using one of these is first year electronics stuff.   I've built a circuit to do exactly that same conversion on veroboard.  There really isn't much to it.

I had one of these types in mind, as even 1A isn't that much if you want to connect a desktop hdd or a dvd writerEngineering won't be much, but it still ads to the costs. But the whole costs - argument may be invalid depending on the price point ED has in mind.

eSATA is useful because SATA 2.0 (the one OMAP5 supports) can do transfer at 300MB/s, while USB 2.0 (the one OMAP5 supports for all but one of its ports) can do only 35MB/s. SATA 3.0 can do 600MB/s and USB 3.0 can do 500MB/s, so it would make sense to have a SATA to USB convertor on the docking station so you can use SATA 3.0 devices and get near max speed using the Pyra's micro-USB 3.0.

As said before, eSATA is a niché product (count the number of drives your friends/family have), and while its nice to have such a speedy port, what use has it if the rest of system is not able to utilize it? I doubt you will get high enough transfer rates from the internal memory, the internal MicroSDCard or the SD-Card interfaces. The only possibility I could see would be and internal hdd or sdd in the dock, but I have my doubts that the SoC will be able to provide for stable datarates that high - but this is only guesswork, if someone knows of any data reagrding what comparable SoCs are able to in that regard please prove me wrong.

12V makes sense to have not just for an eSATAp port, but also if you want to implement my idea of having some room inside the docking station to install standard desktop PC components, like a DVD writer, 3.5" hard disk, or whatever it is you want to use with your Pyra.

I personally see no need for this, and I currently can't imagine ED having any interest in it, but this may indeed be a valid point why having a 12V rail could be usefull

Another potential advantage of getting power in at 12V in the docking station, is that you can then directly use the docking station with an automotive battery, e.g. in an RV you could basically plug in the docking station straight to the the 12V DC power those motorhome batteries provide. That would be the ultimate autonomous computing setup

You would still need an plug adapter to make it work, something (with voltage regulation included) most RV users probably already habe.

 

[Neelix]

I had one of these types in mind, as even 1A isn't that much if you want to connect a desktop hdd or a dvd writer Engineering won't be much, but it still ads to the costs. But the whole costs - argument may be invalid depending on the price point ED has in mind.

That would seem to be very much overkill to my mind,  you don't need a circuit that can convert a range of voltages to other voltages,  just a simple regulator is all you need.

I would argue that there can be no case for a whole costs argument until such time as ED and gta04 actually cost it, so you can't rule it out at this point on that basis.

- Neelix

 

[thatgui]

I would argue that there can be no case for a whole costs argument until such time as ED and gta04 actually cost it, so you can't rule it out at this point on that basis.

Thats what I tried to imply with my last sentence in that paragraph.