Do we really need a full sized USB host port and HDMI?

[Binky]

tv-out over radio? think of the battery life


Dropping the best stuff left, right and centre, just to make room for twin SDXC is daft.


Make the P2 1cm wider than the P1, and cram as much laptop functionality in as possible

 

[overgauss]

First of all, the fact that a device uses micro anything does not automatically make it a smart phone. That's basic logic. Secondly the use of mini/micro port options doesn't mean you need adapters. Unless you call a cable with different terminating ends (one micro, one full) an adapter. For instance I have several 2 meter cables with which I charge my PS3 controllers with, connected to a USB hub. On one end the cable has a tiny connection, the other a standard size connection. Never in my wildest dreams would I have called those wires adapters.


I see how they can be construed as such. What I don't see however, is how they are the harbinger's of the apocolypse.


Warning. I am about to quote wikipedia, don't let that get your brooms in a twitch.


Let's look at USB:

Spoiler

Physical appearance





The size difference is large and quite obvious! Someone mentioned that microUSB is mechanically flawed. Unless he meant something very specific, evidence suggests otherwise.


Durability


The newer Micro-USB receptacles are designed for up to 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal between the receptacle and plug, compared to 1,500 for the standard USB and 5,000 for the Mini-USB receptacle. This is accomplished by adding a locking device and by moving the leaf-spring connector from the jack to the plug, so that the most-stressed part is on the cable side of the connection. This change was made so that the connector on the less expensive cable would bear the most wear instead of the more expensive micro-USB device.[27]


USB On-The-Go


USB On-The-Go introduces the concept that a device can perform both the master and slave roles, and so subtly changes the terminology. With OTG, a device can be either a host when acting as the link master, or a peripheral when acting as the link slave. The choice of whether to be host or peripheral is handled entirely by which end of the cable the device is plugged into. The device connected to the "A" end of the cable at start-up, known as the "A-device", acts as the default host, while the "B" end acts as the default peripheral, known as the "B-device".


OTG Micro Plugs


With the introduction of the USB Micro Plug, a new plug receptacle called Micro-AB was also introduced. It can accept either a Micro-A plug or a Micro-B plug. Micro-A Adapters allow for connection to Standard-A plug type USB cables, as used on standard USB 2.0 Devices. An OTG product must have a single Micro-AB receptacle and no other USB receptacles.[4][5] [snip]


USB 3.0 introduced a backwards compatible, SuperSpeed extension of the Micro-AB receptacle and Micro-A and Micro-B plugs. These contain all of the pins in the USB 2.0 Micro and use the ID pin to identify the A-device and B-device roles. Additionally they contain the additional SuperSpeed pins.


OTG micro Cables


When attached to a PC an OTG device requires a cable which has a USB Standard-A plug on one end and a Micro-B plug on the other end. In order to attach a peripheral to an OTG device the peripheral either needs to have a cable ending in a Micro-A plug which is inserted into the OTG device's Micro-AB receptacle or the OTG device itself needs an adapter cable [O: I call it a cable cable, but whatevs] which has a Micro-A plug on one end and a Standard-A receptacle on the other. The adapter cable enables any standard USB peripheral to be attached to an OTG device. In order to attach two OTG devices together requires either a cable with a Micro-B plug at one end and a Micro-A plug at the other or can be achieved using a combination of the PC cable and adapter cable.

When you plug your pda/tablet/cellphone into your computer aren't you using an adapter cable? Did it bring the end days upon us? Why argue for "Full" USB when the industry itself will tell you it breaks much sooner than microUSB? Is it because you don't care about durability in a next gen device and prefer not having to buy a 96 cent cable from monoprice? No that's not it and I'm being unfair. Hell I've got a mini-usb to "full" usb cable I just bought to charge my cellphone while driving. The earth didn't crack and the skies didn't turn to pitch. I saw no burnt and cracked angel wings on the ground neither.


You only need to buy one cable since the P2 will most likely have one usb port. That one cable let's you interact with all of your peripherals. If you are carrying peripherals around then you have room for this cable, or adapter, if you prefer. If you aren't carrying these peripherals around then you have room for this cable, or adapter if you prefer, wherever you are storing your peripheral!


Begin Part 1


I buy a bunch of gear (very cheaply) and hack the shit out of some shit.

Spoiler

Now I'm with you on the microSD thing. I'm a recent convert. I bought 3 Zipit Z2's (approx $20 USD each), 2 Samsung Galaxy SIIIs (96 cents with 2-year contract), a Palm Pixi Plus ($30 USD), 2 white Xperia mini pros both xperias cost less than the cost of one pandy, has a bravia screen, full qwerty, linux, awesome emu and

https://www.youtube.com/embed/qZdqZdtos28?feature=oembed

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Why argue for "Full" USB when the industry itself will tell you it breaks much sooner than microUSB?

I have never had nor heard of breakage of either USB size being an issue, so to me it is completely irrelevant whether one is more durable.

You only need to buy one cable since the P2 will most likely have one usb port.

Yep, but it's convenient to not require a cable. Natively supporting full size USB appeals to me.


But I was serious when I said I wasn't going to argue for it (beyond these simple clarifications), and in any case it seems OPT will include it. Discussion moot.

 

[overgauss]

The usb/mechanical failure issue came from the first page. Here I'll quote it for you since you missed it.

[snip]


microUSB is mechanically flawed


[snip]

I'm not sure why the discussion is moot because I was under the impression that the powers that be were in full support of "full" USB. As always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


OOPS! Edit:


You quoted one part but omited the part that qualified my statement. Here it is again.

You only need to buy one cable since the P2 will most likely have one usb port. That one cable let's you interact with all of your peripherals. If you are carrying peripherals around then you have room for this cable, or adapter, if you prefer. If you aren't carrying these peripherals around then you have room for this cable, or adapter if you prefer, wherever you are storing your peripheral!

But sure I can agree that using a different cable or adapter could be inconvenient. I just personally have not come across these inconveniences in my usage so obviously ymmv. For instance flash drives might be inconvenient but microSD to usb adapters are cheap and small enough not to bother me. But again ymmv.

 

[Exophase]

You know, you could have just said "you can buy mini to full cables" (kind of like I did re-HDMI, but everyone probably already knows this anyway) and that the microUSB receptacles are designed to push more wear onto the cables, instead of that big dramatic sarcastic tirade you went off on. And here you keep going on about how you're the victim and everyone else starts it. What is wrong with you??

 

[overgauss]

Let me guess you're going to report me for sarcasm, poeism, irony, citing facts and walls of texts even though all of that was spoilered. I've asked you to ignore me many times. Take the hint and ignore me. I'm not the victim because I stand up for myself, if I felt as such I would report everyone like you do.


Edit:


Oh I forgot. HYPERBOLE! I DIDN'T SPOLIER IT!

 

[Exophase]

No, I didn't report you, I told you to your face that you're being an asshole again. In fact, I've never reported you. Got any more claims about me you want to make?

 

[overgauss]

No, I didn't report you, I told you to your face that you're being an asshole again. In fact, I've never reported you. Got any more claims about me you want to make?

Nope this will do.


Also my private discussion with Wally wasn't so private per your post. And you were the one clammoring for modques and such. I was mistaken and apologize.


WARNING THE BELOW IS A LOT OF DRAMA AND IS BEST LEFT UNREAD. IT IS ONLY FOR DOCUMENTATION PURPOSES BECAUSE I AM PEDANTIC. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK OR PREFERABLY NOT AT ALL.

Spoiler

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/Exophase


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Advanced Member

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/Members

1779 posts
https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/LocationCleveland, OH
https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:52 PM

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Are we supposed to be put off by your threats that you'll start being even worse, Overgauss? Any sane forum admins would start handing out bans the second the person started saying they intend to become even MORE annoying.. especially after you PMed them to people like Wally..

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
But I digress, this thread should now be about how Craig is a massive troll who encourages forum drama so long as it's not directed at him.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
(nonetheless, taking Craig's "I'm not a mod" seriously his opinion shouldn't really have any bearing on what's done with OG)

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
The above in response to this

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/ is what I said. Also I never throw the first punch so don't blame me for fighting back. I'm polite at first than people like you abuse that politeness and get upset because my bite is much worse than yours. If you think I'm mean now, wait until I take the kid gloves off. I normally give people at least two swings first, then it's all over. If you don't like the way I talk to you get off my nuts.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Newbie

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/Members

1 posts
https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Wow - just wow.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Reading this entire thread from beginning to end is quite enlightening. I only joined the forum for this - I am a preorderer (though still waiting for mine at the moment) and originally thought I'll get my P1 before I'll dig my trail here - though I have stalked the forum for news and the like.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Its like Scott Pilgrim Overgauss vs the World lol

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
The stange thing is that it seems that both sides are making comments that the other is then confusing/not understanding and retaliating on.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Take the Form over Functionality vs Functionality over Form.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Now immediately people are jumping in thinking Overgauss wants the P2 to be like these devices when the things he said in his first post in this thread are

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
"You could have an increase in functionality as well as a decrease in the chunky factor. I'd much rather have a device that had increased functionality, aesthetics and the ability to take up less space in my pocket or bag and what have you."

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
and

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
"The traditional bulky look of the pandora is not necessary to maintain or improve upon the functionality of the unit."

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Now the first statement is truth as tech advances forward and second part of the first statement is his opinion. The second statement is again a mix of both his opinion and the fact that as tech advances you can make things nicer. Example the DS and DS Lite are prime examples of this. iCP and iCP2 are also possible candidates - Craig crammed a keybard into what was basically a controller! (alternatively you could also say its the bottom half of the P1 without a screen)

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Overgauss simply pointed out some things that had plenty of functionality in a sleek form factor (admittedly not the best examples though one should note that there is nothing else exactly like the P1 in the market - its why the P1 was made in the first place! The closest I would say would be the old Psions which had the keyboard and touch functionality etc)

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Now naturally one can see where he is coming from in a single post. Even as concept and prototype devices these were pretty cool as a show piece on shrinking tech - note that the 7 inch tablet is now defacto (Nexus 7, Ipad Mini etc) - Electronics have gotten smaller and more efficient so it is not hard to see that if you basically took the P1 and redid the whole thing again from scratch - given the experience gained by the team from working on P1 and iCP - I have no doubt the whole thing would be likely more slimmer etc. I bet 1080p screens and quad core arm chips were not even on the horizon when the P1 was conceived.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Hell it seems to be a mobius strip this arguement as both parties are walking on both sides. Many are saying that you don't care about style/sleek looks/slimness. That cannot be completely true. Everyone cares in some way about the aesthetics of EVERYTHING they own - even if its just functional aesthetics. You paint your house - but I bet if the best protection available was bright Pink paint only found in Africa and noone else on in the world had used it. You would care about it.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
IF the P1 was not pocketable and only available in vomit yellow that would definitely impact how much you care. (You would need to start toting a bag, and a case, and with the bag comes more inconvenience and etc and so on and so forth)

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Overgauss was simply pointing out that functionality can come in many forms, I am all for having all the original functionality in someway in the P2 but if it can be slimmer etc surely thats a good thing?

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
There were functions that have been argued for that could be miscontrued too

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
1. Battery life - I read on several comments about this but battery tech has advanced a bit in that they can be made slimmer (have you seen how thin tablet batteries are?) and many components simply use less power because of the smaller die processes and efficency - if we are thinking about the future here we need to take that into account.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
2. Full QWERTY Keyboard - this is pretty much a given to be honest - the iCP2 is a prime example of something that can be used as a stepping stone forward.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
3. SD slots - Plenty of arguments on both sides about this. But this one seems to boil down to 3 things - Space, Cost and Function - One slot takes up a fair bit of room on a board and 2 would take even more (craig has already explained this), Overgauss is thinking about the cost in the long run as flash mem becomes cheaper, while functionality is being pioneered by the others. I can see the point in all of the arguements - ED pointed out he would like at least 1 full size SD card slot so maybe thats the compromise people should have?

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
4. USB hub - This seems to follow the planned modular nature of P2 and Overgauss didn't really have a go about this in the first place.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
While I can understand peoples desire to remain part of the 1% who want something different that the main market cannot offer. Surely if it became more open to a wider audience by being both functional and stylish/sleek/slim that the 1% becomes 2% that would be a good thing - With more people there is always a greater support and software will be better etc. I am not saying that OP will be a big player like MS or Apple but with a bigger voice it can only help.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Advanced Member

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/Members

277 posts
https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:16 PM

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Exitphase I asked you to get off my nuts. I spoke to Wally the way I did because no admin should be posting that a forum member is an idiot for asking a simple question in a polite fashion. I told him that until he apologised to me I didn't want to hear anything else from him. I'm sorry my balls are bigger than yours. Now if you want to keep tangoing we can no problem, but don't start crying to a mod because I make you start blubbering and hollering for your mother.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
For goodness sake I call you Exitphase left because you travelled all the way to an offtopic thread calling for modques because why? I ignored you previously? So I chained you to this thread and made you read it. Don't you see you being constantly on my nuts is problematic and not helping anything? Isn't that a little abnormal to be so concerned about something not involving you in a thread called Overgauss vs Everyone else. So abnormal your butt is so chafed you have to talk to mods? Because my posts are too long and I destroy those swinging from my nads?

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
You're so unbalanced just saying exitphase left sends you raging.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Quote

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
lolz Exitphase, nice try but it has to actually mean something.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
You are correct, I have no argument against you because I don't care at all about what you're trying to argue. Whatever you're saying must be terribly obfuscated by the quality of your posts. You're really an awful poster who is shitting up the forums with your rage spam, and I don't know why you've been tolerated this long.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
You're still pissed because I destroyed you in that microSD thread. Let it go man let it go.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Edit:

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Quote

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
But perhaps Craig will find OG less entertaining now that he's posting his PMs..

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Hurry! Go Exitphase Right and tell him! Maybe he'll pat your head and give you a treat. Awww. Who's a good doggy? WHO'S a good doggy! Yesh you are yesh yer a good doggy! Right paw! Can you give me your right paw? Gooooood doggy! OK now left paw! GOOD DOGGY! Who's my favorite buddy? That's right Exitphase is my favorite buddy! Now go play dead until I come and get you.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Learn How to Speed Read and become an enabler for my advanced and acute case of Wall-O-Text-itis!

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
.....DECIMATE ....... ........ With these tools, my doom is all but assured! Use them wisely.

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
OFFLINE

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Advanced Member

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Members

130 posts
https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:18 PM

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
lol - exitphase

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/
Niceone

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/


https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

https://boards.openpandora.org/boards/index.php?/user/559-exophase/

 

[Exophase]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's definitely something seriously wrong with you.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I'm not sure why the discussion is moot because I was under the impression that the powers that be were in full support of "full" USB. As always feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It is pointless to discuss, I did not realize that moot primarily means "debatable". It also means "not of practical value", which is what I meant.

You quoted one part but omited the part that qualified my statement.

The omission did not distort your argument. I'm not doing the legwork of of analyzing and perfectly quoting your posts, it's just too much. As a matter of fact my eyes just skim your rants for the hotspots.


On the matter of accusational mistakes I also did not report you even though you implied I did in one of your posts a little while back (about "crying to mods" or somesuch).


Ironic how you post quote dumps of what other people have said to indict them, but in your last implosion you deleted all but a few of your own posts.

 

[FaeMinx]

Are you depressed Overgauss?


How do you feel if you force yourself to sit still in an empty room without any sensory stimulation / distraction?


Have you ever gone a day in complete silence - bringing as little attention to yourself as possible?


If you know that people do not enjoy reading your walls of text, and that infact you are pushing most people away, who are you really writing for?


Do you know that being respectfull is a matter of being mindfull of how one behaves in company - In other words: You addapt your speach and manner to be appropriate for the company you keep.


So, with this in mind, what are you hoping to achieve here?


Is it your intention to have people be aggravated by you?


Or do you wish people to respect you?


Is it a case that you see no ill in the way you are - and expect those around you, wherever you happen to be, to addapt to *you*?


***


Or is it simply a case of - you have an insatiable hunger for stimulating debate, and try to make it happen at every possible opportunity?


Is your intellect such that you are always looking for something to challenge you.. ?

 

[_wb_]

Moving on:


About full USB vs micro-USB:


Yes, for USB devices that require a cable anyway (like external harddisks), a micro-USB port is just as good as a full USB port since it's just a matter of using a different cable. For USB devices that don't require a cable (like USB sticks, wifi/3G dongles, etc.), a full USB port is more convenient. So I have a mild preference for full USB.


About full SD vs micro-SD:


It is a fact that the biggest sizes and speeds are available on full SD first, because of obvious reasons (more space means you can pack more memory). Inserting full SD cards in micro-SD slots is not something we want to do (there are adaptors available but you don't want one of those hanging out of your Pandora 2 all the time). On the other hand, if you happen to have micro-SD cards lying around, there is no problem to use them in a full SD slot. So in my opinion there is a significant advantage to having full SD slot(s), and I strongly prefer that over micro-SD only.


About HDMI:


There is no advantage to having a bigger size connector, so if it can be smaller, that's better. The important thing is that the connector is physically sturdy enough to connect the P2 to a beamer or TV with something like a 5 meter cable while being able to use the P2 itself as an input device, without having to worry that the cable snaps out or even gets broken. So maybe something like a Type E HDMI connector would be good:

Type E Automotive Connection System defined in HDMI 1.4 specification.[109] The connector has a locking tab to keep the cable from vibrating loose, and a shell to help prevent moisture and dirt. A relay connector is available for connecting standard consumer cables to the automotive type.[110]

(From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi#Connectors)


The disadvantage is that this takes up more space (see http://jae-connectors.com/en/pdf/MB-0242-1E_MX50_53.pdf), it seems to be something like 2.5 x 1.3 x 3.2 cm, which is quite huge. But sturdiness is quite important to me, in fact it is one of the things that should be improved as much as possible in the Pandora 2 in my opinion. I'd rather have a slightly larger ruggedized Pandora 2 than a slim and fragile Pandora 2. And in the long run that will also benefit the OPT in terms of reducing the number of RMA repairs.

 

[Grench]

Thank you for getting us back on track _wb_.


I'm still a bit stuck on, "MHL/USB port and skip having a dedicated HDMI - why not?"


If it can work with one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Juiced-Systems-MHL-Adapter-MicroSDHC/dp/B008CQKM2U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354120542&sr=8-1&keywords=juiced+systems


Doesn't something like that add a lot of flexibility? I have no idea what MHL technology costs to license - it may be prohibitive.


If we had one MHL/microUSB port - capable of handling an adapter as linked above AND one full sized USB 3.0 host port, would that get us 'there'?

 

[Exophase]

I agree with _wb_ that the TV out port needs to be really secure so it stays put while you're using the Pandora as a controller. So something locking is preferable, if it can be managed.

 

[Grench]

I agree with _wb_ that the TV out port needs to be really secure so it stays put while you're using the Pandora as a controller. So something locking is preferable, if it can be managed.

I agree with _wb_ that the TV out port needs to be really secure so it stays put while you're using the Pandora as a controller. So something locking is preferable, if it can be managed.

But something short of using 40mm long screws and a 30mm wide connector...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvi


If having a hard connection is a requirement, I don't think an 'ideal' micro video connector exists. There is a huge disadvantage to having a hard-connected cable between your Pandora and your TV though.


The first time someone walks between you and the TV, snags the cable and sends your Pandora 2 flying out of your hands at the TV screen as if fired from a trebuchet - then you'll want a connector that doesn't clip, screw, glue or otherwise anchor itself to your handheld.


To me, the controls ON the Pandora are much better suited to use while looking at the Pandora's screen. I don't want to stretch a 15' long cable back to the couch and hope the dog doesn't hear something outside and run through it. That is where an ICP2+P2=happiness equation comes into play.


So, my vision of using a P2 connected to a big screen involves the P2 sitting on the shelf beside said big screen - and a wireless keyboard/mouse/HID with me across the room OR sending the video wireless. Cables running video from the console/controller on the couch to the TV across the room is very 2002 retro though.

 

[_wb_]

If cable snagging is a danger, then using something like ICP2 + P2 seems a better solution indeed. Touchscreen controls could still be nice for some people though, and also being able to plug in a headphone is nice. Also I can imagine you could make the video out and the Pandora display show different things, e.g. have video out play a movie and the Pandora display show a progress bar and menus.


One cool use would be for presentations (e.g. at a scientific conference). Just plug in your P2 to the beamer, use the P2 controls to navigate the slides, you could even scribble stuff on the slides with the stylus, or use the P2 screen to show slide annotations that are not shown to the audience. You could do a software demo while walking around, etc. Pretty cool stuff. And conference attendees tend to want to travel light, so they will all be very jealous when they see how you do your presentation, and they will all buy P2s

 

[Binky]

My point about microUSB was that the connectors break off the circuit board VERY Easily.


Tiny surface-mount pads are not good for something which may receive rough treatment.


The argument above is for perfect use, not for real life


most dongles and memory sticks use fullUSB, which is a big reason for keeping them on the P2

 

[Exophase]

The first time someone walks between you and the TV, snags the cable and sends your Pandora 2 flying out of your hands at the TV screen as if fired from a trebuchet - then you'll want a connector that doesn't clip, screw, glue or otherwise anchor itself to your handheld.

This sounds like a stretch. I'm not worried about someone walking in front of a TV while I'm using a controller attached to it and snagging it out of my hands. If that happened the force of my holding onto the controller would probably give them enough indication to stop moving.

To me, the controls ON the Pandora are much better suited to use while looking at the Pandora's screen. I don't want to stretch a 15' long cable back to the couch and hope the dog doesn't hear something outside and run through it. That is where an ICP2+P2=happiness equation comes into play.

That's a fair point, but not everyone is going to want to buy an additional controller for something the Pandora 2 can already handle. And not everyone really cares about being wired to the TV (nor will everyone sit 15' away from it). May as well cater to both if you can, rather than just your vision..

 

[F_Slim]

I have no problem with a mini-HDMI or even another obscure never before seen nano-connector with a custom cable to attach it to a TV. Because I expect to need a special cable for this. I'd even prefer a special port if it would add VGA-support ...


Having to use an adapter to attach my gamepad/joystick/mouse/TV-Stick/whatever to it is a real nuisance (it is already due to the USB 2.0 only-port). Now even a USB-stick would need an adapter, and either hand on a cable or lengthen the stick by several cm, putting a lot of leverage on a tiny port.


The reason that there is a standard-port like (normal sized) USB which every USB-device is shipped with is to make life easy.


Using something different than what everybody else uses just makes life hard. (Just go to any conference: some guy with a Mac will delay the start of his session with the words "oh ... damn, does anyone have an adapter?" followed by some other Mac-user offering an adapter only to find that he still has the previous Macbook and they changed the connection ...)

 

[WizardStan]

This sounds like a stretch. I'm not worried about someone walking in front of a TV while I'm using a controller attached to it and snagging it out of my hands. If that happened the force of my holding onto the controller would probably give them enough indication to stop moving.

Hmm, I think I'm going to side with Grench on this one, at least as far as the validity of the situation. I've had SNES controllers ripped out of my hands by careless TV walkers, and those are fairly easy to pull out at the plug end as it is. If someone walks in front of me while I'm playing my Pandora on the big screen I would absolutely prefer the cable be pulled out than to have my Pandora thrown against a wall due to a firmly attached cable.


On the other hand, I don't think I can remember that happening even once post-SNES: the cables were made longer so that you can sit on the couch and they safely drape along the ground instead of dangling in the air at trip height, so it may be preferable to lock them despite the risk if the cable is long enough.