Disappointed Again

[rmm2131]

At the end of the day and after the futile discussions of whoever's been labeled at times deservedly and undeservedly right or wrong have ended and when everything is finally finished, the one's who worked tremendously hard were Michael, Craig, Ed, and Fatih.

 

[noisome]

No, I disagree, I think taking preorders for a device that doesn't exist is more dishonest.

Okay you go with that. I don't see what is dishonest about PREORDERS (aka ORDERS FOR SOMETHING THATS NOT OUT YET, hence the PRE). You know what you may get. You know what you may be waiting for. You know everything in advance. You know that it may or may not materialise. So you're telling me that someone who deliberately lies to you to make more money is more dishonest than being truthful upfront. Go on that. Go ahead. To move forward in life you have to KNOW what you're getting into with faith that you'll be on the other side safely. Unsatisfactory incidents may occur, sure, but you already KNOW to expect things such as that. However in your case, go blindly into the night with only your "SANITY" to keep you safe.

Look, maybe this was clear to you and the people you TOLD but it certainly wasn't to the majority of people on this board.

The majority on this board do not read all of the messages either. The only thing lacking here is common sense to know where your money is going. Who's fault? Those who don't read the fine print, like I said.

craigix made a comment that they were ready to go into production NOW, which suggested to people the opposite - that they were not relying on preorder money for it.

Where does it say they weren't relying on preorder money for it? They were "ready", means they don't have the means to do it, but they have the designs to do it. Who's fault is it to say that you read too much into crap. Sometimes things are just as they are.

...but this is not conventional.

Conventional? Are you saying OP is a Nintendo? Are you saying OP is IBM? You saying Pandora is a conventional netbook? *sigh*

And why do you think OP would have tried to take that money out when they were nowhere ready to pay for mass production?

They had to pay for the research for the nubs. They had to pay for the materials for the case company. They had to pay TI for the materials. All of this requires money. You have to put down money so the companies will take the time to deal with you, otherwise you're a nutcase wasting money. From my understanding craig said "It wasn't until we tried to take the money out that we had a problem."

First of all, I find your propaganda comment very offensive..

I apologize for that statement it was offensive.

Why the hell do you think that what I'm saying would cause people to do that now?

I don't. That's why 90% of the people are silent except the 10% I mentioned. We feed the living while feasting off the dead.

So now you're saying that a majority of people who are frustrated with the delays are just following mob mentality?

Yeah. Some the posters of these type of threads don't even have a preorder and are plainly stated. They feed the mob and so-on. You defend these people as well as those who have invested.

I see you're another person who is calling this an investment, it's obvious I'm talking to someone who is way too biased about this

It is an investment. What else would you call it? A preorder? I'm looking at more than just a Pandora. You look at it just for a Pandora.

1. ... you're threatening to sue people now? If OP goes under?

2. Are you fucking insane?

3. ...capable of even being slightly moderate or rational about this? Can you be anything less than a totally depraved extremist?

4. Are you going to respond like this the moment anyone says anything that can be construed as even slightly negative about your beloved Pandora team?

5. I'm just defending people who are unhappy..

6. ...but here a total nutcase like you comes around and tells them to fuck off because you're afraid of it hurting the Pandora you want so much.

7. I clearly need to know better my audience before I start responding to them.

1. I won't sue anyone if the OP team just falls through the cracks because of them getting screwed. Manufacturer takes the money and runs. The product itself sucks. UPS hides all of the product in a basement near the pale girl's house. Stuff like that is unavoidable. However other things are avoidable. As you put it, mob refunds are avoidable, but whoever starts it, I will aim for.

2. Maybe.

3. No. I wear dynamite.

4. Only you actually. Like I said, I feed the living. It gives you a reason to exist.

5. And I am just defending the people who are happy..

6. I take offense (really, no I don't. Its normal) to those who claim the opponent as a nutcase. You're like Obama pulling the race card whenever there is an opponent. You can't see the rational side of anyone's comments but your own? I see how it is. You sir are a hypocrite and you will suffer the deadly palms of agonising hairiness.

7. From my perspective, you shouldn't even begin to respond.


Anyway. I'm done pissing you off. I enjoyed it and apparently you didn't. I succeeded in what I was aiming for.
Now I assign you a real task, defend those that are happy. Since you are pro-bono that is.



Noisome

 

[lulzfish]

Long posts are LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


...


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.

 

[droneb]

ok, now i dont follow any of those 2 so

--10 to all and just calm down, this one thread went so insane, its been a loss of time to watch this one, ill only check this thread when i want to laugh.

 

[Phawx]

@Drone

Considering there is nothing else going on with the Pandora, what else can we men do besides punch each-other in the face?

 

[SirAileron]

@Drone

Considering there is nothing else going on with the Pandora, what else can we men do besides punch each-other in the face?

Aside from the option of being productive... this quote wins the day.

 

[worzyl]

Worzyl wakes up and eats breakfast along with a nice cup of hot H20:

"Hmm...lets see - check my mail then straight back on to the artwork. Hey..actually, let me have a quick check on the Pandora forum"

Clicks on thread.

:blink:

Leaves thread.

 

[dflemstr]

Worzyl wakes up and eats breakfast along with a nice cup of hot H20:

"Hmm...lets see - check my mail then straight back on to the artwork. Hey..actually, let me have a quick check on the Pandora forum"

Clicks on thread.

:blink:

Leaves thread.

Wait, you actually drink hot H₂O without adding anything? You on a diet or something?

 

[Monk]

@Drone

Considering there is nothing else going on with the Pandora, what else can we men do besides punch each-other in the face?

Aim lower? It's more effective!

 

[WoD]

Ah the wonder of senseless, endless but somehow gratifying arguments! I, for one, visit the Pandora forums just to read this crap. After all, most of the actual news about the console is posted on the blog, relegating these forums to an endless, aimless discussion about every nuance of the Pandora and every proposed, purported or potential delay.

Fun!

 

[SirAileron]

Aim lower? It's more effective!

More effective? Certainly, but then the fights don't draw out as much.

 

[Exophase]

Would probably be better if there weren't some outright trolls thrown into the mix..

 

[Monk]

Would probably be better if there weren't some outright trolls thrown into the mix..

Doesn't the thread title kinda invite trolling though? It's a bit like "Troll cave for sale, open cave today - free finger foods!"?

 

[Exophase]

Doesn't the thread title kinda invite trolling though? It's a bit like "Troll cave for sale, open cave today - free finger foods!"?

Invite, probably. I don't think anything justifies it though.

 

[Asmo]

OK I'm bored so I'll bite.

The majority on this board do not read all of the messages either. The only thing lacking here is common sense to know where your money is going. Who's fault? Those who don't read the fine print, like I said.

They only needed to read the messages from those in charge, which at the time really left no room for 'interpretation'- Order to be placed with 'factory' within a week,'Preorder now! Then that they had managed to increase the order to match the larger than expected influx of preorders. Dissenters were rounded on for their lack of faith.

They were "ready", means they don't have the means to do it, but they have the designs to do it.

Evidently not. Most were pretty surprised to find several weeks later that the renders we'd seen to that point weren't the 'final' design, and the board itself had yet to undergo several revisions. Several other areas were not finalised at that stage.

It is an investment. What else would you call it? A preorder? I'm looking at more than just a Pandora. You look at it just for a Pandora.

A preorder. An investment would have to have been characterised as such from the off, and would normally lead to some manner of dividend. I paid for a Pandora, and that is all I expect.

1. I won't sue anyone if the OP team just falls through the cracks because of them getting screwed. Manufacturer takes the money and runs. The product itself sucks. UPS hides all of the product in a basement near the pale girl's house. Stuff like that is unavoidable. However other things are avoidable. As you put it, mob refunds are avoidable, but whoever starts it, I will aim for.

Either you're joking or like to burn money then. That would be the most futile lawsuit imaginable.

 

[SNESFAN]

Doesn't the thread title kinda invite trolling though? It's a bit like "Troll cave for sale, open cave today - free finger foods!"?

you, fine sir, have won the space known as my signature block

 

[kuru]

The quality of discourse makes me sad and adds additional strain to my patience. I come here for information and the great ideas and people who make all this happen and support the project. Please keep positive about it, don't be destryoing hope and confidence.

Keep those happy modders' aswell as the software/game ideas coming, this is what we're here for after all.

 

[Exophase]

Preorders are done in the market all the time, but I've never seen something called a preorder that was done for the purpose of raising money for the device. Consumers appreciate preorders because it allows them to actually be able to get a unit without having to stand in line for 2 days when it's released, to have any chance. Manufacturers appreciate preorders because it gives them an idea of what the demand for the device is and it nearly guarantees them that number of sales before they have to spend anything on it.

The difference between these preorders and the kind of preordering Pandora had is that none of these other preorders charge for the full price of the unit upfront, instead taking at most a small percentage in order to give incentive not to cancel. These days preorders are common in the tech industry and OP leveraged this familiarity. That they were charging full price upfront seemed like a technicality and an irrelevant one since people had faith in the release date.

Even if you argue that OP were ready to go and just needed the money to mass produce this is ostensibly not the case. Development was not complete. Things that don't incur outside costs were not complete. The OP team has since made it clear that they did not need outside money in order to complete development (the process of designing things like the boards, case moulds, nubs, software, and so on), that they had a sufficient combination of dedicated workers and initial investment money. So unless they were lying it shouldn't have been necessary to take preorders at the time they did. But they took preorders because they really did believe they were going to start production soon, even though they weren't ready. They vastly underestimated the amount of additional time they would need and counted on certain things falling into place better. IMO, a more appropriate time to be taking preorders would be closer to now, not a year ago.

If they really were relying on preorder costs in order to develop the machine then that changes things substantially. No longer would it be a matter of "we made one, if you give us the money we'll make one for you too" kind of arrangement that a lot of smaller operations have. I know a lot of you think very highly of what Pandora is trying to do but you can't pretend that they're a non-profit organization. No company should take preorder money as venture capital without very clearly saying that this is what they're doing - it's unfair for them to eventually profit off of something that said "investors" are not given any means of profiting from. Yes, if all you care about is getting a Pandora and you think that it's a great "movement" then maybe the ends will justify the means to you but I don't see that as being fair play.

But that's not what I think they were doing.

 

[gaterooze]

Preorders are done in the market all the time, but I've never seen something called a preorder that was done for the purpose of raising money for the device.

GP2X.

 

[Phawx]

@Exophase

I see why you don't want to call it an investment now. However, I went in knowing they were using our money as venture capital. Why else would they require the full amount? However, I still threw my money in because, I know that a big company would never do something like the Pandora. And I don't have the means nor do I know the people involved to get something done.

Really you needed something like a perfect storm. Craig and ED were shopkeepers and followed the GP2X scene and established relationships with everyone here. I don't know exactly how Mweston fits in or Fatih, but somehow a small group of people were formed. So I decided to throw my chips in because what I am investing is far less then what OP is investing. There was quite a lot of work done. And after all this work, there is no guarantee that the Pandora will be a huge success. It's still a niche product.

So if OP can actually overcome everything and become millionaire's, I would be glad for them. They stepped up to the plate when no one else was. <--- This is reason enough for the only return I see on my 'investment' is a Pandora.