Disappointed Again

[darkblu]

i wonder how many of those expressing their unrest, actually have something that depends on the delivery date of the pandora?

yes, the device has a certain perceived value, and yes, that does not grow with time passing. on the other hand, though, as long as there are no direct competitors to the pandora, i don't see why people whose routine does not depend on the posession of the pandora today, would be so frustrated as some of the posts in this forum are. and the moment a direct competitor appears - feel free (i know i will) to reconsider your purchasing decision.

you want non-rosy estimates from the OP team? ok, here's one from me - tomorrow the planet dies, an so do we with it. so go spend your time with something more rewarding (clearly, disregard me if this board is your rewarding activity).

 

[Monk]

+1 Exophase
+1 Loonie
-1 TheDarkSpectrum48K

I find it bemusing when someone whines childishly that they don't like whining or whiners. Does that EVER actually improve the atmosphere? Two wrongs don't make a right!

Meanwhile, personally, I enjoyed MWeston's post and was disspointed that Stan beat me to the obvious response. I don't see MW as being contemptuous of the customers - or if he is, he's certainly no more contemptuous of us than we are of them (rather generic use of "us" and "them", there). I mean - Pleng's response, while equally humerous (to me at least) is at least as critical of MW as MW is of "certain users" (sorry, I've lost track of who is who and even which side *I* am supposed to be on in this one).

Mostly, it looks like being a nice bit of kit and it's getting closer. Just two more months!

I don't actually expect to be saying that for many more months. I've started mourning its passing. It feels like I'm about to lose an old friend to some long-winded but unpredictable disease... that time may come, when "just two months" is behind us

but hopefully its passing will be almost unnoticed in the joy of a new prezzie. Games, emulation, office software on the go (My, is that a Pandora in your pocket or are you ONLy SLIGHTLY pleased to see me?) oh dearie me yes!

Ahem.

 

[SNESFAN]

I think the wait has clearly made some of you crazy. Not only do some of you feed the trolls, but you are trying to make sence of their fake intentions.

:shrug:

 

[puppydee]

Me just waits for sexy time with pandora, suits me sir Oooo

 

[noisome]

Give me a break. Maybe people should have known the likelihood of the device they're ordering actually being released within 2 months, but don't you think Open Pandora should have known that a little better?

Known a little better about what? Does looking at porn make you a sex god? No. It helps to understand what's going on, but you're not good until the you've tried it and the woman enjoys it.

Then don't you think that taking preorders with a release date that they said they'll meet was dishonest? Companies don't normally charge full price for consumer devices that are not already at the end of development cycle - usually mass production has already started - why should anyone have known better? Nothing about how "grassroots" this is should have indicated such a thing, and your sex analogy is pretty demeaning.

Apparently you have never paid for a game that has been broken after it was released. Or had a lemon of a car. Or have bought a house with noone to help you understand that they figure the monthly payments by loan amount only, not including taxes and insurance that will be figured in. Dishonest? That shit is dishonest and that's why the world's economy tanked. These people said when they wanted it complete and gave a good faith estimate. They didn't lie, just underestimated.

had no idea that OP was relying on preorder sales in full in order to fund the first production run of the device.

Really? That was plainly given before preorders were taken. I knew about it and so did everyone I told. Those who didn't know how to read the forum also don't know to read the fine print when Satan shows up.

Why financial institutions would have a policy like this should be obvious, because they have a policy to help protect people from getting ripped off.

No, its a policy so they protect their back when they run out of cash. They froze the account because they received so much money so fast, put it all in investments and then when the money was no longer liquid. Once OP tried to take out the money to pay for something, they didn't have the cash. Try getting milk out of starving cow.

If OP turned tail and all of those people demanded refunds from the institution then they'd be in serious crap, and they shouldn't have to deal with that.

If everyone demanded money right now, OP would be in serious crap. So if you want to start a stampede with all your propaganda everyone is going to lose their money.

people would have probably been more patient and understanding.

People in general are understanding until others start crying a lot. Its like a group of babies, when one cries they all cry except the ones who have a good disposition. That would be the some preorderers who knew what to expect and you are only speaking for the minority of those who did invest. 5% whine (you), the other 5% feed the whiners(me), 90% stay quiet.

but I still shouldn't be shunned for giving my opinion on things, even if it's not 100% positive.

Give your opinions but just remember, if you screw with OP and I lose my money or my pandora, I'm not going after OP. I will gladly sue the shit out of those who started the stampede.

For those people who have been highly anticipating this it's about a lot more than just money. I'm sure for many, having to go without the money they put down for this long is nothing compared to having to constantly wait longer and longer for something that they expected last year. All the while with other devices with similar or better hardware coming out (fortunately, nothing very Pandora-like yet). When it comes out it will be less cutting edge, and while that's not disastrous it does take away some from the initial value of it.

I've been here since the beginning. I don't care about the wait as long as I get it. Strike that, I do care but I want this device more than the money. The money is gone. Figure it that way. You're never going to see it again, so don't ever expect it back. It should have been that way since the beginning. Would you have invested in the Lehman Brothers if you knew they could possibly crash and burn? If you answered yes then stop worrying because your reward will eventually get in your hand. If you answered no, then you should stop whining because its your fault, not OPs.

Initial value? There is nothing like OP around. NOTHING. The Pandora can be made by anyone, sure, but the project itself is revolutionary. It goes back to the time where the customers did have a say. In the 1960s and 1970s, cars got bigger in the US because people wanted more room. The got faster and quicker because people wanted bigger engines. Now in the 1990s and 2000s what happened? The companies stopped listening and provided crap that people didn't want. Now space for other companies opened up and those niches are growing. Tesla Motors is making a killing (despite their recent founders arguments).

OP is doing the same. I support them because I want them to be bigger and better. I want them to compete because they do LISTEN and CARE. They all now have greyer hair but that's because of inexperience. Let them finish up without hassle. It will be a better place.

Noisome

PS: Anyone who uses my quotes will die a horrible death from the red-assed baboon throwing funky monkey balls from the brass monkey.

 

[pawprints]

+1 Exophase -2a TDS

When I first pre ordered I have to admit I didn't see a years delay ahead of me when I paid my money. Maybe I was completely Naive expecting to see my nice shiny toy by December 08. In fairness we’ve all had patience and some can dismiss £200+ more than others and well if you pay for something surely you have the right to express an opinion be it good or bad. Of course after so many false expectations it’s difficult not to eventually lose hope and be filled with disappointment. It’s like saying to a child. Christmas is now in January this year, no wait March, April, June, September… Maybe a slight exaggeration but to some it’s their Christmas present that’s been pulled away from them.

I know things happen and every company has troubles that need resolving and working through and on the whole the devs have been honest and up front but there have been times that those at the top of the project have been flippant and sometimes as much as insulting to those that are also determined to see the project through and have put their faith in the form of an order. I know it must be frustrating hearing comments that aren’t all together complimentary but that’s all part of it especially when you asked for help in funding the project.

I really hope that from now on we get nothing but honest and hopefully positive news as everyday it feels as though the Pandora is moving ever further away from our grasp just as we see a dim light at the end of the tunnel. No point arguing about it, it’s done and all we can do is learn from it and move on and hope for the best. Sure, emotions are going to run high and it brings it home more when we see next gen Ipods etc using similar technology but thankfully nothing has matched the overall design of the Pandora which has to be a really positive thing indeed and is a reflection on the thought and hard work that the devs have put into the project.

 

[Exophase]

I disagree with Exophase. All of these things -delays, miscalculations, needed fixes, failed relations with manufacturers- are simply due to the grass roots and low budget nature of the project. These guys may be smart and talented, but they are not experienced with this kind of project. I'd venture to say no one out there is experienced with raising up a project like this from the ground up with just community support, from a production stand point. Technical abilities aside (these guys have that) navigating bringing something like this through production on such a low budget is simply something that has not been done before for a device like this.

I think that people here should try to put themselves in the OP team's shoes a little harder. I think they deserve it because of the nature of this project and because of what the nature of this community *should* be.

The point I'm trying to make is not that OP is a bad company for taking so long. The delays are completely understandable, and there is no argument from me at all that the team is very capable. Nor is there any doubt that they bit off a whole lot for their capabilities and probably overestimated themselves - when this thing is out it's going to be amazing to see that they accomplished it at all. But I don't think anything in my post suggested otherwise. I'm just trying to say that they weren't ready to take preorders when they did. I remember thinking at the time that they were going to be in deep crap if they couldn't meet the November date, and am rather surprised at how well they weathered this. But once you start taking money for something you really do hold more accountability, unless you're making an arrangement with people where they understand it can take an indefinite amount of time. I think OP wanted to make this clear to people but it wasn't clear enough at the time.

It's all kind of moot because it's pretty clear now, but there are still long term ramifications and it's understandable that people are unhappy with the situation. People shouldn't be told to piss off and bend over because of it. I know a lot of you are very hyped about Pandora and don't want anyone's negative opinions jutting against your excitement but understanding can go a long way on both sides here.

 

[TheRain]

Fair enough. I know how it sounded, like I was make a direct argument to you- but I was more trying to help shift the mindset here a little. It's the final stretch and it would be nice if people could have a better attitude in my opinion.

 

[Exophase]

Known a little better about what? Does looking at porn make you a sex god? No. It helps to understand what's going on, but you're not good until the you've tried it and the woman enjoys it.

What I said was that if the people were expected to know a November release was unrealistic then the OP team should have known that all the more. Was I not very clear about this?

Apparently you have never paid for a game that has been broken after it was released. Or had a lemon of a car. Or have bought a house with noone to help you understand that they figure the monthly payments by loan amount only, not including taxes and insurance that will be figured in. Dishonest? That shit is dishonest and that's why the world's economy tanked. These people said when they wanted it complete and gave a good faith estimate. They didn't lie, just underestimated.

No, I disagree, I think taking preorders for a device that doesn't exist is more dishonest.

Really? That was plainly given before preorders were taken. I knew about it and so did everyone I told. Those who didn't know how to read the forum also don't know to read the fine print when Satan shows up.

Look, maybe this was clear to you and the people you TOLD but it certainly wasn't to the majority of people on this board. craigix made a comment that they were ready to go into production NOW, which suggested to people the opposite - that they were not relying on preorder money for it. So this is what people thought for quite a while, until I urged craig to clear it up (which he did). Until then OP had never outright said this, and maybe it's obvious to you that a company taking preorders relies on the money to make the product but this is not conventional.

No, its a policy so they protect their back when they run out of cash. They froze the account because they received so much money so fast, put it all in investments and then when the money was no longer liquid. Once OP tried to take out the money to pay for something, they didn't have the cash. Try getting milk out of starving cow.

And why do you think OP would have tried to take that money out when they were nowhere ready to pay for mass production? Your story doesn't add up. The bank account was frozen because of the deposits, not due to withdrawals.

If everyone demanded money right now, OP would be in serious crap. So if you want to start a stampede with all your propaganda everyone is going to lose their money.

First of all, I find your propaganda comment very offensive.. and I had to really restrain myself to not say something more serious so I'm just going to leave it at that. Yes, OP would be in serious crap, except if they were crooks then I'm sure whoever is taking liability with them would be feeling a lot of that.

Of course everyone isn't going to demand money now, thank God or this device would be in jeopardy, which I obviously do NOT want. Why the hell do you think that what I'm saying would cause people to do that now? Why would I want that?

People in general are understanding until others start crying a lot. Its like a group of babies, when one cries they all cry except the ones who have a good disposition. That would be the some preorderers who knew what to expect and you are only speaking for the minority of those who did invest. 5% whine (you), the other 5% feed the whiners(me), 90% stay quiet.

So now you're saying that a majority of people who are frustrated with the delays are just following mob mentality?

I see you're another person who is calling this an investment, it's obvious I'm talking to someone who is way too biased about this

Give your opinions but just remember, if you screw with OP and I lose my money or my pandora, I'm not going after OP. I will gladly sue the shit out of those who started the stampede.

... you're threatening to sue people now? If OP goes under?

Okay, I can't restrain myself now.

Are you fucking insane?

Do you read what you type? Do you read what anyone else types? Are you capable of even being slightly moderate or rational about this? Can you be anything less than a totally depraved extremist? Are you going to respond like this the moment anyone says anything that can be construed as even slightly negative about your beloved Pandora team? I have far more good things to say about them than bad ones and like I said, I have zero personal feelings about this - nor am I trying to instill them in others. I'm just defending people who are unhappy.. but here a total nutcase like you comes around and tells them to fuck off because you're afraid of it hurting the Pandora you want so much. Right.

I clearly need to know better my audience before I start responding to them.

 

[lulzfish]

<Quote pyramid continues here>

<Endless discussion of some pointless shit goes here>

<Rallying for / against OP goes here>

There's my post. :/

 

[pawprints]

A better mind set? Everyone has their own opinions be they right or wrong. I’m sure many are just anxious that this may not be the final stretch but in fact now, the stretch before the final stretch or maybe one before that. I am sure things will calm down once we see in video form the first fully assembled 100 percent complete Pandora.

 

[Exophase]

<Quote pyramid continues here>

I don't see any quote pyramids ;p

 

[Phawx]

@TheRain

While it is the final stetch, there is still quite a lot left to do and a *lot* of shipping still left. Shipping is the salt on the delays. The completed Pandora, when it does get in our hands, will have covered a few thousand miles.

It ***may*** go into Q1 of 2010 to get the Panda. Please don't take this as negativity, this is just a realistic possibility. And obviously, it's out of OP's hands. There is nothing to do but wait. And I know I will still be here.

@Exophase

A curious question, I am one of those who considers my pre-order, an investment. However, I completely agree with everything you are saying. If my attitude reflects yours, but my concept of the pre-order reflects noisome's, where does that leave me? (I left a smiley because inflection doesn't come off well through text. The = light-heartedness)

 

[TheRain]

A better mind set? Everyone has their own opinions be they right or wrong. I’m sure many are just anxious that this may not be the final stretch but in fact now, the stretch before the final stretch or maybe one before that. I am sure things will calm down once we see in video form the first fully assembled 100 percent complete Pandora.

I respect that and I am even willing to accept that I could be totally off base in my own opinions. It's just that I think the morale of the community is subjective and people tend to inherit other people's attitudes to a large extent.

It really is not that I think that I'm right and everyone else is wrong But I do tend to think that if there were a camera documenting OP team's every move through this, people would be much more sympathetic and supportive. The first post in this thread really triggered extreme annoyance in me though. Like "ZOMGz!! another delay and my HEAD esplodes!". Get real dude. If you're going to jump ship, do so. If you're not, hold on and wait. *assholish smile* (i need an emoticon for that)

 

[Exophase]

A curious question, I am one of those who considers my pre-order, an investment. However, I completely agree with everything you are saying. If my attitude reflects yours, but my concept of the pre-order reflects noisome's, where does that leave me? (I left a smiley because inflection doesn't come off well through text. The = light-heartedness)

Not to brush off your non-seriousness, but really I don't think there's anything wrong with people seeing it as a personal investment. It's just not appropriate to expect that other people should see it that way. There's nothing wrong with viewing it the same way you would any other purchase.

 

[WhiteBat]

sigh, i miss when it was just a "bunch of dudes" making this, what ever happened to community project?

 

[danielliu88888]

sigh, i miss when it was just a "bunch of dudes" making this, what ever happened to community project?

all companies are a bunch of dudes. except for the ones who have women.

 

[WizardStan]

sigh, i miss when it was just a "bunch of dudes" making this, what ever happened to community project?

all companies are a bunch of dudes. except for the ones who have women.

In which case, the definition of "dude" is expanded to include women.

 

[john4p]

I can look on the bright side now. The Pandora might arrive just in time for my birthday. On the 29th of February.

So the Pandora arrives in 2012 since there is no 29th of February in 2010 and 2011...

What can I say? I'm admittedly a little optimistic, but everyone has to have their dreams!

You're very optimistic indeed - but that's the right attitude!

 

[El Jefe]

sigh, i miss when it was just a "bunch of dudes" making this, what ever happened to community project?

all companies are a bunch of dudes. except for the ones who have women.

In which case, the definition of "dude" is expanded to include women.

or the definition woman is expanded to include dudes.