Did I Bork My Nubs?

[WizardStan]

Bad because they need to be thrown out and remade... it's not our costs, but still a bummer

Except it is your cost. Your cost in bad press, your cost to assemble bad Pandoras that are destined to be returned, your cost to replace the bad nubs on the boards that get returned with good ones (if that's even possible) that may turn out bad again anyway.
I don't have all the details, but seems to me that finding some way to add these tolerance tests to the existing nubs is definitely something that needs to be done, before more potentially bad nubs get sent out.

edit: unless you mean they're just remaking the full 13000 and the ones you've got are being scrapped in full (which, rereading your post, I think you did) in which case nevermind.

 

[EvilDragon]

Bad because they need to be thrown out and remade... it's not our costs, but still a bummer

Except it is your cost. Your cost in bad press, your cost to assemble bad Pandoras that are destined to be returned, your cost to replace the bad nubs on the boards that get returned with good ones (if that's even possible) that may turn out bad again anyway.

Yeah, bad press and costs for returns, that's true. And to desolder and resolder the broken ones.
Still better than having borked nubs and having to pay for them all...

At the moment, we didn't have too many returns, thank god

edit: unless you mean they're just remaking the full 13000 and the ones you've got are being scrapped in full (which, rereading your post, I think you did) in which case nevermind.

I doubt it, since there are some that work fine
They might scrap all the non-working ones as this is faster and cheaper than repairing them, I guess.

I do extensive testing of all units I get - you wouldn't want to see what I do with the nubs (moving them like hell, with too much force, just to simulate what they would have to suffer while gaming... and I do that for approx. 2 - 3 minutes. The one that lose calibration, are bad for me. Haven't gotten any returned from those yet... and it was 1 out of 10 units that failed. Too much to continue like that, but also not so bad to be an issue we cannot work out )

 

[Loon]

...
At the moment, we didn't have too many returns, thank god
...

Sad to report you'll be getting one from me, well Craig will anyway.

My left Nub just stopped working today, it worked quite well until this afternoon then stopped returning to centre and the cursor drifts all over the place. Sounds like the same problem others have been suffering. The funny thing was it was always the right nub that gave me a bit of trouble in the past, it has a slightly gritty feeling when using it and it sometimes loses calibration.

Hard to know what to suggest but if I were OP I'd do my best to accurately find out the true depth of this problem, it could save you a fortune in time, effort, cash and bad publicity if it does turn out that there is a major issue with the hardware.

My way to find this out would be to email all existing customers and ask them about their experience with the nubs, tell them to email back with the subject 'good nubs' or 'bad nubs' as appropriate. Ask for a short description if you send back a 'bad nubs' email.

Edit : you could also add an option 'was good, now bad' for units that seemed OK then just stopped working.

 

[mali]

A disassembly of bad nubs might also be helpful. Someone in a different thread reported that some traces on his nub's PCB are broken. The nubs suffer from several different problems it seems. A disassembly station in the town hall would make sense. The findings could be reported directly to the nub factory to shorten the troubleshooting.

 

[tsh]

Once another 400 are out in the wild, we might see a difference in user-experience with the nubs.

 

[fusion_power]

13000 Nubs, ok thats alot. ^^"
But ok, it shows that it is not always a good Idea to order huge batches I must say. So I think the decission for ordering only 1000 Cases at once was a good idea. The WiFi Resistor issue also proofed that it was a good Idea not to produce all 4K Boards at the time.
Bad for Apple, they've already built Millions of 4G iPhones with faulty Antenna design. :lol:

i.e. it takes about 17 - 18 minutes to build a single Pandora. About 10 - 12 minutes is the assembly of the lids, LCD cable, bottom part, etc. That's everything that can be done without having boards
As soon as the boards arrive, it's about 5 - 6 minutes left per unit... and way fewer units should faile because of broken nubs, so assembly will then be a lot faster and smoother.

I was hoping, assembling a complete Pandora wouldn't take more than 5-10 Minutes (for one Person, without quality tests). But it doesn't matter as long as some parts have not arrived at the assembling line.

And from which date is the shipping delayed? Still testing the nubs or shipping the Nubs to the Assembling (Texas) or are some tested nubs alredy there for soldering? Just want to know where are all the critical "delay parts" at the moment. ^^"

 

[paddy]

Just to report back on my new unit ,i am very glad to say both nubs are working perfectly ,no loss of calibration ,i am glad that these nubs can actuly work ! i was really starting to think they were all bad,i did notice with this unit that the nubs are quite tight to move unlike all of the other nubs from the last two units so i am betting this has something to do with it ,they seem to spring back to centre very quick and tight.

I feel like booting hell out of them just so i can say to you all if these (working) nubs could last the distance but i don't think it's a good idea if i break them,i also tested n64 mario and there was a difference when moving mario around in a circle and mario moves like he should when running forward then double backing on yourself so n64 also working as it should ,so i can now say for sure it is not a software issue.

forgot to say ,i did not calibrate them at boot up or anything ,they just work,tested with and without hotfix and multiple reboots and power off's with battery removed.

i hope this helps.

 

[XxionxX]

Just to report back on my new unit ,i am very glad to say both nubs are working perfectly ,no loss of calibration ,i am glad that these nubs can actuly work !

After all of the not so good news in this thread I am glad someone is reporting good things. I just got off work and started to read this thread, because I was interested as to what kinds of answers I would receive. I was surprised to see all the numbers go up so quickly after I had asked. I guess I am so used to seeing people ask questions about order numbers I thought I would get flamed for sure. I feel much better about the nubs now despite all the doom and gloom about the manufacturing defects. I know ED said it was something like 1 in 10 Pandas fail,(correct me if I'm wrong) but that still means I have a %90 chance of getting a working Pandora! Though I do agree with fusion_power about wanting my panda to work for a hopeful 10 years. I know it will be massively out of date by then, but I like my stuff to keep running when I need it to.

While I was reading through the thread people kept saying they wouldn't want to use the nubs for mousing. It seems to me that if we are afraid of a little mouse, our nubs won't last long at all. Is there anything we can do to reinforce the nubs sturdiness and durability? I am not very familiar with plastics and the construction of the Pandora, but it feels like there should be something we could do.

 

[mali]

Just to report back on my new unit ,i am very glad to say both nubs are working perfectly ,no loss of calibration ,i am glad that these nubs can actuly work !

Congrats

ED posted two new blog posts and the nubs are mentioned, too. A very reassuring read

 

[Bosbeetle]

I dont mind being nubless for a while, I will return the unit though in time. I hope the new nubs will be fine.

 

[EvilDragon]

Yep, the nubs are actually being investigated by the production company
They're really helpful, read your comments about what's wrong and work on it

Well, they will fix it. After all, they're a pretty big company (they have 19 branches worldwide... ) and they make their living mostly from such navigational devices (for mobile phones, laptops, etc.)

So, yeah, one thing we learned: The size of the company doesn't mean their products can't fail - but they're more helpful in solving the issues

I'm positive about that right now (and - well, you know me... issues do scare me a lot I'm always assuming the worst...)

 

[WizardStan]

So, yeah, one thing we learned: The size of the company doesn't mean their products can't fail - but they're more helpful in solving the issues

Any chance they'll willingly release the source for their nubs firmware, or at the very least allow you guys to release a binary blob so we can experiment with the nubs ourselves without fear of not being able to reflash back to factory spec?

 

[coevin]

Hi guys can I get some clarification as I'm not fully understanding the nub issue. my nuns when I first switch the machine on are generally all over the place, however after moving them up, down, ledt and right they sort themselves out. Now is this the faulty issue or is that normal?

 

[WizardStan]

Hi guys can I get some clarification as I'm not fully understanding the nub issue. my nuns when I first switch the machine on are generally all over the place, however after moving them up, down, ledt and right they sort themselves out. Now is this the faulty issue or is that normal?

That's normal. You need to calibrate the nubs every time you reboot.
The current issue at hand (beyond the nubs that fail completely) is that after a period of time, sometimes a week or two, the nubs fail to return to center, and even this calibration doesn't make them work properly.
If you've been using your Pandora for a few weeks now and haven't noticed any problems other than having to recalibrate them as you have been, then everything is working as expected.

 

[Bosbeetle]

Hi guys can I get some clarification as I'm not fully understanding the nub issue. my nuns when I first switch the machine on are generally all over the place, however after moving them up, down, ledt and right they sort themselves out. Now is this the faulty issue or is that normal?

Thats normal they you should do the calibration up center down center left center right center at boot-up

 

[coevin]

Ok thanks guys guess I got lucky so far.

 

[sebt3]

hum, I got my first nub problem this morning : cursor wasn't able to go on the left side.
Reboot, and everything is fine ... for now

 

[Bosbeetle]

hum, I got my first nub problem this morning : cursor wasn't able to go on the left side.
Reboot, and everything is fine ... for now

I did have that regularly pre-borking maybe it has been faulty all time.. hmm

 

[EvilDragon]

Yes, it seems most of the failing nubs had some calibration issues from the very beginning.
The ones that were perfect seem to still work.

Well, hard guessing around - next week we should get some information from the manufacturer

 

[God Ginrai]

So, yeah, one thing we learned: The size of the company doesn't mean their products can't fail - but they're more helpful in solving the issues

Any chance they'll willingly release the source for their nubs firmware, or at the very least allow you guys to release a binary blob so we can experiment with the nubs ourselves without fear of not being able to reflash back to factory spec?

... There is no way to flash the nubs from the Pandora, you would have to have one of those rigs like MWeston made. Also, isn't the firmware something that was made by the Design company, not the manufacturer? (Remember, they were different companies, and the design company went belly up)

-God Ginrai