Dev Fund Question

[dentrado]

From my perspective, whatever happens with the Developer Fund should be *100% open* and promoted in a game-style setup; which is to say that I think there should be a "Dev Fund" website with a total-figure of how much is available, who contributed to it, and who is currently requesting - with their working applications - that they receive a bit of it.

Imagine if the dev-fund-contributors could all vote on who was going to get 100Euro's this week because of the application they had released: this would *really* promote people making cool apps for the Pandora. If I knew I could - in a live forum, with voting and such - make a few hundred bucks extra a month by hacking on a nice app released to the public, then I'd for sure be writing a kickass app.

So I hope thats how it happens. If it turns into an 'inner circle' clique, with no public view of whats going on, then .. meh ..

+1 up

great idea!

 

[javaJake]

Personally...

I donated to the Dev Fund to help promote Pandora development and spark interest in the Pandora platform. Not because I expect any perks in return. Getting more and better *FREE* software is already the best perk you could get afterall.

If there are some closed alphas/betas for dev funders, OK. That's cool. But that's not what motivated me to contribute, so it doesn't really matter to me if there aren't.

This is my opinion as well. In a nutshell, the money's there to help developers of the Pandora who put time and effort into it, as a public thank-you. Actions speak louder than words.

I'll no doubt be contributing amounts to specific developers if I've used them extensively, again as a thank-you for providing such a useful piece of software.

 

[joseluisjazz]

From my perspective, whatever happens with the Developer Fund should be *100% open* and promoted in a game-style setup; which is to say that I think there should be a "Dev Fund" website with a total-figure of how much is available, who contributed to it, and who is currently requesting - with their working applications - that they receive a bit of it.

That's one of the best ideas I've ever heard. And I believe it could actually work!

 

[mikedanick]

i mentioned on the 'old' forums that once i received my Pandora order confirmation email i would donate to the dev fund, and in fact i purchased 2 of the $20 dev fund packages. i will more than likely donate more down the road once i receive my pandora.

personally i'm not donating for any sort of privileges, but i like the idea of users being mentioned in some sort of 'those who donated to the dev fund' listing of some sort. also, perhaps a dev fund site could be made that allows those who donate to log on using a user / password authentication that would allow them to download special builds or betas or other forms of apps and games along with a special forum for users.

personally the idea of receiving things is kind of like joining a special 'underground club', similar to what 'major' companies do for users, like the playstation underground for example. members get special betas in the mail or beta sign ups and other little gifts (perhaps pandora stickers, key chains, mouse pads, coffee mugs, beer steins, etc, but these would be purchasable so the profits could also help the dev fund). but we don't need to mail out any items (other than the purchased items mentioned previously), that would be a waste of monies when most items could be gotten from online.

personally i don't think having folks donate would separate the "have's or have nots", personally it would give folks an incentive to donate. if craigx and company could offer special apps or other items for download (like perhaps Pandora programming apps, utilities or documentation) to members, that would be a nice idea.

i would be all for having a subscription based program (a few dollars a month or a yearly rate), and over time perhaps some of those funds could be used to create a small pandora newsletter or magazine that could be easily downloadable .pdfs (that previous months issues would be made available to non members) that again offer pandora news and info along with programming help and advice. the more we could get programming info into the hands of regular folks (like myself), i think the more future pandora developers we could create. swapping programming info and tips back and forth via the dev donaters underground forum and newsletter / magazine could possibly open up a whole new group of pandora support. then perhaps different 'bunches' of people could all form different groups to create a bunch of different 'group' programmers, the more users in one group, and the more groups made, then that would make people able to turn someone close for programming help, kinda like a bunch of different programming clouds spread out over various countries, kind of like a bunch of programming 'clans', who could even compete against each other to showcase their groups talents (like to old c-64 / amiga group scene days).

perhaps i'm talking out of my head, but the potentials are endless in what could be accomplished. possibly making the pandora hardware, the next linux.

 

[cosam]

perhaps i'm talking out of my head

Your head wouldn't have been my first guess, but anyway... You seem to be contradicting yourself. You start off by saying you don't expect any special treatment for donating, then go on to list a host of exclusive benefits you'd like to see for those making a financial contribution.

...but the potentials are endless in what could be accomplished. possibly making the pandora hardware, the next linux.

The next Linux, the latest version of which would presumably be available only to monthly subscribers, leaving the rest of us with out-of-date hand-me-downs? Linux hasn't become the success it is by restricting access to information to a select few, but because it is completely open, allowing anyone and everyone to contribute freely.

 

[PokeParadox]

The way I see it, the Dev fund is just a pat on the back for those that deserve it. Creating games/applications/emulators and porting all take time. And a lot of people here are developing stuff and releasing it online, free of charge; They do it in the free time they have outside of work and other life commitments. As blunt as it may sound, they owe you nothing! So the Dev fund is to say thanks, you may get extra perks depending on the dev, but you shouldn't expect it, just be grateful that even though you've said thanks, the dev wants to give something extra.

As for the beta system - I don't see anything wrong with giving pre-release builds out to donors. If it wasn't going to be publicly released anyway, then no one is missing anything. It's almost the same as a dev passing it to a couple of friends to see what they think of a couple of features, before committing to a release.

But we don't really know how this is going to work yet, but overall I think it is a great idea.

 

[Olexxy]

Personally...

I donated to the Dev Fund to help promote Pandora development and spark interest in the Pandora platform. Not because I expect any perks in return. Getting more and better *FREE* software is already the best perk you could get afterall.

This is my opinion as well. In a nutshell, the money's there to help developers of the Pandora who put time and effort into it, as a public thank-you. Actions speak louder than words.

I'll no doubt be contributing amounts to specific developers if I've used them extensively, again as a thank-you for providing such a useful piece of software.

+1

"Donate" has a meaning, and for me it's not "buying a service"

 

[ljones]

Well the developer's fund was only a small amount, and I guess any amount for the developers would always be welcomed by them. The reason I donated was that I thought it was going to help pay the bills, i.e. you don't need sackfulls of money to make software but you need money to pay money or bills (What with the credit crunch and whatnot -- someone has to pay the electricity bill to power the PC to write software on!). If it all starts going down the road of perks and exclusive this-and-that, that's a *bad* sign. I wouldn't have donated if there's going to be exclusives. Nobody should be excluded because they can't pay, and no exclusive stuff either.

Who knows maybe some of the dev funds could go to help running or making a pandora-specific website?

ljones

 

[mikedanick]

perhaps i'm talking out of my head

Your head wouldn't have been my first guess, but anyway... You seem to be contradicting yourself. You start off by saying you don't expect any special treatment for donating, then go on to list a host of exclusive benefits you'd like to see for those making a financial contribution.

...but the potentials are endless in what could be accomplished. possibly making the pandora hardware, the next linux.

The next Linux, the latest version of which would presumably be available only to monthly subscribers, leaving the rest of us with out-of-date hand-me-downs? Linux hasn't become the success it is by restricting access to information to a select few, but because it is completely open, allowing anyone and everyone to contribute freely.

sure, go on the attack on someone just making a comment. my comments on pandora becoming the next linux isn't via a profit standpoint, its the popularity of it, and the dedication the users show it (kind of like the amiga was).

but it's shocking how everyone has the idea that everything should be free and handed out for nothing. the pandora projects can't grow if everything is free and nobody contributes but only leeches. unlike linux which can be run by anyone with some form of pc, pandora is a stand alone project and needs support via any means possible, financially also. this isn't like a psp or ds, the only way it will survive is by contributions. you can't have the pirate attitude of 'take all you can get, and give nothing back'.

but it's nice to see that some of the pandora community are just like the other console(s) communities, quick to judge, quick to name call and quick to bash. makes me feel good to give my hard earned monies to be a member of 'that group'.

 

[andyB911]

I wonder what proportion of the pre-orderers have donated?

Craig - will you be making public the size of the fund?

On '30/9' I suspect in the panic people who may have donated didn't just because of the sense of fear if they didn't get the order in within milliseconds, that they may not be in the first 3000.

I'm god damn lazy, so I ensured I did pay it there and then as I know the chances of me doing afterwards were slim, but I suspect the one downside of the slashdot/digg frenzy of excitement was that the dev fund is smaller than might otherwise have been.

Personally don't give a monkey's about privileges - its just paying off my conscience about being poor to donate to individual developers.

 

[cosam]

sure, go on the attack on someone just making a comment. my comments on pandora becoming the next linux isn't via a profit standpoint, its the popularity of it, and the dedication the users show it (kind of like the amiga was).

No-one is attacking you (at least not me, anyway). I'm just disagreeing with some of the points you made. I think everyone also understood what you meant by "the next Linux" - I was merely projecting the main gist of your post onto your last paragraph to make a point.

but it's shocking how everyone has the idea that everything should be free and handed out for nothing. the pandora projects can't grow if everything is free and nobody contributes but only leeches. ... you can't have the pirate attitude of 'take all you can get, and give nothing back'.

Yes, I use a lot of open source software, most of which I've never contributed to and probably never will. Then again, everything I write myself is also open source. When I find a bug in an open source program I use, I report it. I may even submit a patch. Or document how to get X working with Y. Or help people get started using technology I happen to know something about. I do this because I enjoy it and want to give something back, and I certainly don't expect anything in return.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the developer fund and I'm pleasantly surprised how many people have donated. Hopefully it will stimulate development on the Pandora, although I don't agree that it's absolutely necessary for the community to survive and prosper.

My only real point is that people should donate because they want to support the cause, not for glory or special privileges, and that those who choose not to donate (or decide instead to contribute in other ways) should not be penalised.

 

[rokdcasbah2]

Personally, I didn't donate to the dev fund (yet). I wanna see where the $$ goes first. It's not as if I haven't donated to GP2X projects. I imagine I will do the same for Pandora projects. But I could be doing that directly.

That said, I do think the dev fund is a great idea and it probably got some people to donate to devs (via convenience) that wouldn't have otherwise. I may kick in down the road, but for right now I'd rather do things directly.

 

[Bronek]

Here is some from new guy. Feel free to ignore, I am really new to these forums and to Pandora. I have ordered in first batch, and gave to dev found, which I hope makes my apperance in this thread relevant enough. Second thing that I hope gives me the right to open mouth here is the fact that I program for living, long time, and have some things to share.

First: if you want experienced developers doing work, you must be prepared to pay to some of them. You know, the kind of guys who worked in the business more than 10 years, have more than one mouth to feed and sometimes need to spend time with their kids. It helps to have some funds for the purpose. Of course, there are some great programmers who write good stuff just for the fun of it, but it would be pretty naiive to make the success of the whole platform depend on theirs good will only.

Second: all (well, almost) good programmers need feedback from the users. Sometimes early in the development. Because you know, we are the kind of guys who think like this "this class need to communicate with that one, so to make this communication efficient ... ah wait, I can use incomplete type here and then apply Pimpl ... vector of shared_ptrs will do" whilst users normally think like this "this widget is not consistent with the rest of the system. And why red! Now, there should be somewhere option to turn this off, but where is it..." I hope you see discrepancy here. We just do not see the things users see. And, as someone else noticed here, early feedback sometimes can be harsh. If bad word goes around, the program is basically kaput, no matter how much effort developer put to address concerns of early users. This is why it sometimes (depending on the needs of specific project and experience of developer team) it is very useful to have closed circle of early users willing to test and give early feedback.

I understand why it was decided to connect these two. I do not say it was best decision possible. However: donation to the dev found is something like what, less than price of 10 beers or so. If you still want to test program early, but have not or could not pay, maybe it would be best just to email its author and ask directly? I bet many programmers will be happy to gain access to dedicated tester, no matter if he paid or not for the "priviledge" (quotes because I already learned that it is hard work and not a priviledge).

 

[ryan0]

I agree with all those who say that the dev fund should be for the dev's and not the people.We don't care about getting access to "ub3r s33kr1t b3t4's",we want to see the devs releasing lots of great apps for the pandora!get rid of these donator benefits and have the dev fund help promote lots of great apps for this open source console!
ryan0

 

[PoisonedV]

I agree with all those who say that the dev fund should be for the dev's and not the people.We don't care about getting access to "ub3r s33kr1t b3t4's",we want to see the devs releasing lots of great apps for the pandora!get rid of these donator benefits and have the dev fund help promote lots of great apps for this open source console!
ryan0

i agree. it should be a donation, not a membership.
also, like i said back on gp32x, i would be excluded, not because I don't donate (which, some people CANT do) but because I already know who I want to donate it to, and i would prefer to allocate it out myself.

 

[mikedanick]

No-one is attacking you (at least not me, anyway). I'm just disagreeing with some of the points you made. I think everyone also understood what you meant by "the next Linux" - I was merely projecting the main gist of your post onto your last paragraph to make a point.

Yes, I use a lot of open source software, most of which I've never contributed to and probably never will. Then again, everything I write myself is also open source. When I find a bug in an open source program I use, I report it. I may even submit a patch. Or document how to get X working with Y. Or help people get started using technology I happen to know something about. I do this because I enjoy it and want to give something back, and I certainly don't expect anything in return.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the developer fund and I'm pleasantly surprised how many people have donated. Hopefully it will stimulate development on the Pandora, although I don't agree that it's absolutely necessary for the community to survive and prosper.

My only real point is that people should donate because they want to support the cause, not for glory or special privileges, and that those who choose not to donate (or decide instead to contribute in other ways) should not be penalised.

that's cool. my only vise is that i want the pandora to survive and i want to do all i can to help. since i quit coding back in the amiga 1000 days, i've yet to find any project that made me want to get back into coding. i used to thoroughly enjoy writing demos and intros on the apple II, c-64 and the amiga 1000, i stayed up days at a time working on them and coded for several different groups back then.

it seems i've found something that makes me want to get back into coding (pandora), and that's why i thought the ideas of being able to share info would be great. back in the days before the internet, we used open trunk conferencing to communicate and share info (along with bbs'). the thing was there was really no instant feedback from individuals, you didn't really hear if someone liked or hated your work. nowadays, alot of coders are getting burned by the openness of the internet. they are able to read almost instant feedback from users, and most users attack them about their work and how it sucks or should do this or that, or some other ways to attack them, and that in turn makes alot of coders leave the scene with a poor attitude.

but a simple webpage similar to a bulletin board listing that displays the name of all those who have donated isn't seeking any form of glory, most users donate using their handles or nicks anyway, so unless you know personally who's who's, then there is no glory other than for the individual, and that makes the individual feel decent that atleast his donation(s) are appreciated by those who accepted it.

 

[PoisonedV]

but a simple webpage similar to a bulletin board listing that displays the name of all those who have donated isn't seeking any form of glory, most users donate using their handles or nicks anyway, so unless you know personally who's who's, then there is no glory other than for the individual, and that makes the individual feel decent that atleast his donation(s) are appreciated by those who accepted it.

really, i've considered it common courtesy to not say if you've donated to someone or if someone donated to you without the consent of the other person first.

 

[gp32rich]

I hope the donation goes to buying a license for a game to be ported
I don't care whether it's open-sourced or not afterwards

I'll leave it to Craig, etc. to choose the game



but I really hope for Carmageddon 2 ^_^

 

[Kyosys]

I hope the donation goes to buying a license for a game to be ported
I don't care whether it's open-sourced or not afterwards

I'll leave it to Craig, etc. to choose the game



but I really hope for Carmageddon 2 ^_^

that's not what the dev fund is for

in fact, that's the complete opposite of what it's for

 

[TaG]

I hope the donation goes to buying a license for a game to be ported

I'm sure thats not what the purpose was, nor ever discussed so others' donations should not go there. It was to reward and encourage devs to help create a bigger, better quality library of games/apps.

I'll leave it to Craig, etc. to choose the game

Generous of you. :wink: j-k