Damsel in Distress (mouhaha)

[Exophase]

Either her words and viewpoints mean something to you or they don't. The words and viewpoints are what's relevant, the person behind them isn't really. This exercise in trying to discredit her arguments by digging up a bunch of stuff from her web history and jumping to pretty far reached conclusions (hey look some guy she's affiliated with guess he's the one who must have come up with everything.. no need to point out the irony in these claims) is pretty pathetic.

 

[Klumpen]

Her flaming is so absurd and over the top, that I could never really believe, that these are her opinions

and always thought, that she is just trying to become famous by extreme exaggeration.

I do not know if it worked, because I never heard of her before this thread existed, but many here did, as it seems.

Building up gender specific hatred in your audience just for these reasons is just shameless and destructive.

 

[Exophase]

I only saw the first "tropes" video but I didn't find it especially over the top. I don't agree with all of her points but it's pretty sensible. Maybe she's more over the top in other things but surely if she's been made well known it's over this series.

Like I said, or at least was trying to say, people can decide for themselves if someone's argument is valid on its own merits. If the person's motivations have an impact on how you perceive the validity of their argument then you're not thinking critically enough.

That said, I still see zero credible evidence that she's disingenuous. The argument that she seems too absurd is the same old "must be trolling" mindset, because people can't understand how others would feel the way they do..

 

[comradekingu]

I think initially videogames were more of a technical marvel rather than actual gameplay. This meant a largely male demographic at first, and it seems that the industry has catered to this ever since.  Back when studios were small and indie there were better games and more variation. Now you have the equivalent to hollywood blockbusters.

The solution isnt demanding better movies or games, its making them.

 

[moxie]

I really do not understand these very hostile reactions to Sarkeesians videos or projects. The things she talks about cannot really be news - Neither that these "standard figures" (tropes) exist (and exists well outside and long before video games), nor that they are seen as problematic in rather well-established research. Have people never seen proper critical examination of anything? Or is the big shocker that ones own favourite pastime isn't excluded from the kind of cultural expressions that are critically examined and discussed?

Or is the problem that she's a gurrl? As Exophase says, the hint that these ideas must originate for some male in the background is both telling and extremely ridiculous.

Then again, I don't understand the "fake geek girl" thing or the kind of abuse that is regularly hurled at Jennie Hanniver either. Guess I'm just to old. Or have actually met and interacted with too many females to be scared.

 

[comradekingu]

The problem being we are all adolescent males, and she is inherently right. Consequences will never be the same.

 

[levi]

The only criticisms of her videos that made sense to me were criticising her for recycling ideas as much as she recycles gameplay videos. But if these ideas are new to people then such a high profile set of videos can only be a good thing.

 

[_jr_]

The truth about Anita Sarkeesian:

http://anongamer.tumblr.com/

Looks like some kind of stalking to me. Reminds one to not leave too many traces on the net.

 

[vcoleiro1]

While she does at times say some far fetched stuff in the tropes videos, on the whole they are just pretty boring IMO.

What people fail to understand is who she  is, She is an extremist feminist who is disliked by many main stream feminists because of the bad name she gives feminism. Watch her other videos , time and time again you will see her make ridiculous far reaching statements.  She is the type of feminists mainstream feminism constantly tries to disassociate with, she represents the far fetched, far reaching BS extremist femnism views people associate as a stereotype when they think of feminism.  That's why you will see videos on youtube from other feminists denouncing her views and distancing themselves from her.

Now does that mean everything she says is wrong, no, no it doesn't , she does say stuff that is about real issues, its just that she says a lot of stuff that's ridiculous which she is known for.

Lets not forget the classic she says in one of her videos where she talks about the worst sexist story in history, then shows a video depiction of it.

Yes folks , she calls out the immaculate conception of Jesus the most sexist mystical conception trope in history. Followed by the famous Anita rolling of the eyes to say how sexist was that. 

That's who your defending people, it's best you do your research on someone before commenting.

 

[Exophase]

Sorry vcoleiro, but I don't feel I have to do a single minute of research on anything this woman has said to validate defending her against some load of crap smear campaign launched by a cowardly anon. Really doesn't matter to me how outrageous her viewpoints are.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ You got an echo going on Exo - lol

Why do you always take comments personally, no one was singling you out, my comment was in relation to all of those people who have no idea who Anita is.  It wasn't in reference to the argument your having with anon at all, just a comment to those on their perception of who Anita is

 

[Exophase]

My browser was all locking up and stuff, I have no idea how that happened

Maybe I didn't read this thread very carefully but I just haven't seen people really defend her in general, just defend her against the smear campaign (I wasn't the only one fwiw). A few people agreed with some things she said but I don't think that's really the same.

 

[DaMummy]

oh for fucks sake....

+1

+2

 

[_wb_]

Lets not forget the classic she says in one of her videos where she talks about the worst sexist story in history, then shows a video depiction of it.

Yes folks , she calls out the immaculate conception of Jesus the most sexist mystical conception trope in history. Followed by the famous Anita rolling of the eyes to say how sexist was that. 

That's who your defending people, it's best you do your research on someone before commenting.

You mean in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/0rhH_QGXtgQ?feature=oembed

She doesn't say that that is "the most sexist mystical conception trope" (you misquoted that), she calls it "the original mystical pregnancy narrative" (the fragment about it starts at 3m25 if you want to check). I don't see what is wrong with that statement. Maybe you are offended by the implication that the bible contains fictional stories?

Anyway, even if she would be saying outrageously crazy stuff somewhere (I haven't found an example of that yet, even though all this Sarkeesian-bashing has gotten me interested enough to subscribe to her YouTube channel and watch most of her videos), then why would that in any way invalidate the sensible stuff she says elsewhere? Arguments and ideas have an inherent value, regardless of who utters them.

In my opinion, all this reactionary backlash against Sarkeesian proves one important point: sexism is still an issue in 2013.

 

[_jr_]

Anyway, even if she would be saying outrageously crazy stuff somewhere (I haven't found an example of that yet, even though all this Sarkeesian-bashing has gotten me interested enough to subscribe to her YouTube channel and watch most of her videos), then why would that in any way invalidate the sensible stuff she says elsewhere? Arguments and ideas have an inherent value, regardless of who utters them.


In my opinion, all this reactionary backlash against Sarkeesian proves one important point: sexism is still an issue in 2013.

Exactly.


I find this particular video well done and agree with her central point that the Damsel in distress in video games is much overused as a plot device and annoyingly sexist. Since a large part of the target audience is children and adolescents I don't agree with the notion on the board that it's not a problem, because it does perpetuate prejudice. And I agree with her that it harms men also (if not more), because they feel compelled to conform to particular roles they might not be really suited for. I was sixteen, too. I remember how difficult it was to find my place in life.

 

[thatgui]

That's who your defending people, it's best you do your research on someone before commenting.

Who exactly is defending her ?

 

[Asiyura]

I don't care who she is or what she did before, all I know is that I agree with her opinions. Those opinions seems to trouble some people to the point of harassing her, making "games" into which you virtually hurt her, send her public threats of rape and/or murder and many more "funny" things like these.

My guess is that they know that she is right, and just want to make her shut up instead of questioning their day to day behaviour.

Most of people (male AND female) don't want to admit that she is right, girls in media are most than often depicted as little fragile things that must be protected, saved or whatever by the large, muscular, bearded alpha male. And it's fucking ridiculous…

The reason many don't (want to) see the ridiculous into that or are conscious of it but defend it is that it's always been like that. We're formatted by medias to accept that in movies, series, video games, …

Formatting starts the moment we're born : 

- boys must be clothed in blue, must play "manly" sports and have other "manly" activities (playing war, building lego, playing with car toys …).

They must not show any feelings, crying is for the weak!

Boys can't control their sexuality, they only think about that, you can excuse them when they harass/rape females, …

- girls must play with dolls, be clothed in pink and must have "girly" activities (playing mom, cooking, tea party, makeup, do housework  …).

They must show their feelings, a crying girl makes all the boys want to "protect" her (read : comfort her now to fuck her later as a "reward")

Girls must do with male sexuality, if they wear short skirt outdoor, they shouldn't be surprise to be harassed or even violated, …

Some will tell that I exaggerated, or that I'm wrong. From my personal point-of-view, I'm spot-on.

As a male in the current society, I'm privileged!

When I go outside with good looking clothes, no one start to talk to me to fuck me, or harass me to get my phone number, or even worse.

When I shout at somebody because he is irritating, no one say that it must be because it's "that time of the month".

When I say that I like Star Wars, Star Trek, comics, video games, …, no one start to question me about every little details to find me at fault and label me as a fake geek girl instead of welcoming me and help me to know more about those subjects.

When I try to defend my opinions, no one say that I should shut up because I'm just an hysterical feminist.

And if I keep talking, no one say that he is going to gag me with his - male anatomy part -, or nice things like these.

(I could keep going for a while, but I guess it's already enough, isn't it?)

So yes, feminists like Anita Sarkeesian are needed more than ever IMHO

 

[vcoleiro1]

@_wb_ - It was the context in which she made that video. ie sexist tropes.


Have you watched all her videos as I have done, if not, perhaps you should. As I have said, I don't have much of an issue with her video game trope vids, it's her past videos I have an issue with and there are many examples of her saying stupid far fetched shit - I think I have posted examples before - if not, they are not hard to find. And I also made it clear that she does make valid points in her videos , its just that she at times makes wild claims as well. Whats wrong with that, well this. I'm all for feminism, but what sets feminism back is extremist feminists. These are the people that make outlandish remarks and draw long bows so to speak etc. It's these people that give feminism the bad stereotypes it has.


That's why mainstream feminists fight hard to shut these nutters up, because it gives them a bad name and hurts there cause. Does that mean everything these people say is wrong, one more time, no.


Example, in the video below, Anita says the song "All I want for Xmax is you" by Mariah Carey - is saying that all women need men to complete them, she then goes on to say that mens version of the song are bordering stalkerish .


Long Bow much ?


The song is about the words people always say to loved one at Xmas - ie that all they want for Xmas is for whoever to be there and not some present - that's it, not the sensationalist long bow BS she comes up with. In fact Mariah has said she wrote the song with the view of writing something wholesome and christian in spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpDnr2s9yxQ . This is the shit that gives feminism a bad name and why she has come under fire. Do I agree with peoples hate towards her, shit no, that's never on . Disagree with her sure, think she adds to bad feminist stereotypes - yep, but that should never lead to the hate people have aimed at her and the abusive words they have said to her.

 

[thatgui]

@_wb_  -  It was the context in which she made that video. ie sexist tropes.  

Have you watched all her videos as I have done, if not, perhaps you should.  As I have said, I don't have much of an issue with her video game trope vids, it's her past videos I have an issue with and there are many examples of her saying stupid far fetched shit - I think I have posted examples before - if not, they are not hard to find. And I also made it clear that she does make valid points in her videos , its just that she at times makes wild claims as well.  Whats wrong with that, well this.  I'm all for feminism, but what sets feminism back is extremist feminists. These are the people that make outlandish remarks and darw long bows so to speak etc. It's these people that give feminism the bad stereotypes it has.

That's why mainstream feminists fight hard to shut these nutters up, because it gives them a bad name and hurts there cause.  Does that mean everything these people say is wrong, one more time, no. 

No one questioned that around here, all that people here did was emphasizing on the fact that the things she says about tropes in videogames are (at least partially) true, regardless of her "past" or other videos, where she was (depending on your own perspective) expressing more radical thoughts.

 

[WizardStan]

Anyone remember the whole thing I said about when Debs quit because of harassment, and how much I disliked people saying "it's all Craig's fault, he should have expected blah blah"? This is why. My opinion hasn't changed. The fact that some people who don't like what she is saying choose to lash out in misogynistic ways is conveniently evidence that she isn't entirely off her mark. There are lots of things these people can do when they encounter something they don't agree with, and they chose to go for slurs and threats of violence. Bravo assholes, in trying to "counter" her point you have made me feel even stronger about it.