Crowd Funding the Pyra - Let's help ED make it work

[Mr_Loon]

The first batch of Pyra Production will be crowd funded by Pre Orders.

There has been some discussion in this thread in the ask ED questions section. ED is currently trying to decide whether to do this via a campaign direct from Dragonbox or use an existing site such as Kickstarter / Indiegogo (are there any other sensible options?)

I thought it might make sense to post this in the general discussions section for a bit more visibility and because this thread is for suggestions and advice from the community rather than direct questions for ED.
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A summary of the thread in the Ask ED questions section :

Here's the current status:

• Some parts (like 2000 batteries, 1000 LCDs, 10000 nubs) have already been paid and are lying on stock.
• Molds and development has also been finished and is almost paid (but I got enough money on my account to pay the rest)
• There's not much money left after that, definitely not enough to cover the costs for the mass production.

So, here's my plan:

• Prototypes for the developers and for the videos will be finished and shipped (very soon, in fact, the prototype for the videos is on the way to me!)
• With the videos, I'll show off a bit what it can do while and keep you up to date with the software developments. The preordered prototypes will take a bit longer, as I want to wait for the final keymat and case before I ship those.
  
• As soon as I got the finished case (including Lid, etc.) I'll do a final prototype video and then the preorders will start!
• We need approximately at least 800 preorders (including the 200 we already have) to be able to give green light for the production! So yes, the GPD Win is a danger to us here. I know that a lot of forum members here will preorder the Pyra, but I don't know if those are enough. Additional preorderers might've been affected by the upcoming GPD Win and might want to wait until both system are released - or they will switch to the GPD Win as the preorder-price is pretty low (unfortunately, we can't afford such an early-bird price, we don't have the capital that GPD has).
  I hope those aren't too many and we can at least achieve the 800, though I hope we can get at least 1300 - 1400, as that would mean we could increase the batch to 2000 which will safe production costs and also would make it possible to also have units from stock when we're finished.
• In case we won't get enough, I am thinking about a Kickstarter campaign to get more orders.
• If that also fails, I might approach interested investors or look for other ways to fund everything. With finished and working prototypes, that should be possible.

Kickstarter fees are 5%, Indiegogo fees are 4% so if the Pyra from Dragonbox was to cost €500 it would have to be priced as €20-25 extra on an established site to generate the same income.

Advantages of using a campaign direct from Dragonbox :

• No additional fees to a 3rd party
• No delay in getting the money (everything would start one month later if Kickatarter/ Indiegogo was used)
• There is the potential option of splitting payments from the backers, pay approx 50% when backing the project and the rest when the units are ready to be shipped.
• There are already 200 pre orders with Dragonbox
• Flexible Payment via Klarna (only for German customers?)
• Ability to use Dragonbox Gift Codes

Advantages of using Kickstarter / Indiegogo :

• Publicity : Many more people browse/use Kickstarter/Indiegogo than view this website.
• Use of the Kickstarter/Indiegogo system for communicating with backers.
• Ease of producing a clear set of rewards & stretch goals.
• Ease of keeping up to date with how much is needed / pledged.
• People unfamiliar with ED/Dragonbox may well feel more comfortable handing over money knowing that if the goal is not reached they will be refunded.

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Does anyone have any suggestions that might help ED run a successful crowd funding campaign?

FWIW here are mine :

I'm guessing the campaign will be in English & German, get help making sure the English version is clear & accurate. I for one would be more than happy to proof read & make suggestions before the campaign goes public. It would make sense to me for more than one person to do this though.

Get help from the community to translate the campaign into other languages, I'm thinking Spanish, French, Japanese would be good choices.

Be really active when communicating with backers, make this communication easy for anyone to see.

Have a good selection of rewards & stretch goals :

Rewards

• Base model (Standard Pyra)
• Premium model at a premium price (perhaps with double Ram & eMMC size of the base model)
• Different coloured / transparent case at a premium price
• Accessory pack (Spare battery, Spare Stylus, Carry Case, USB3 OTG to full size adapter etc.)

Stretch Goals

• Official Android support
• Funding the future development of an x86 CPU board
• Future production of an Aluminium case

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Edit :

About the Poll : Please note the question is not : What would you personally like to see, but what would be the best method to help generate enough pre orders.

From a personal perspective I'd rather see a campaign direct from Dragonbox but I believe the best method for the Pyra project would be using an established crowd funding site.

 

[Neelix]

The Kickstarter model really doesn't mesh with other methods of taking preorders, and and in my opinion it really isn't a good mechanism for taking pre-orders, especially not for devices as expensive as the Pyra.

Kickstarter is good for collecting small amounts of money from large numbers of people, but what can ED meaningfully offer for small amounts that would prompt people to basically subsidise production of a unit they would need to pay a sizable amount to actually obtain?

I'm also not convinced of it's efficacy in terms of generating publicity. I remember when The ICP2 campaign was running, it was relying heavily on publicity on various news sites to keep the campaign on target, and arranging that kind of publicity is going to be just as easy if the campaign is being run from the Dragon Box shop as from Kickstarter.

-Neelix

 

[el joker]

Hi
me i m ok even if ED re open pre oder in DragonBox Shop or other me i m so ready to help and to have one pyra and so i ll take in g+ and diaspora too
good day peace

 

[Faust]

@Mr_Loon, are you sure that the rewards are doable? Like android official port or x86 Cpu board? Because I'm really not sure it could be, even if I would love it.

For the French translation you can count on me to help.

For the funding, I think we can start on ED's shop and open a kick-starter that redirecting to Ed's shop.

 

[levi]

I tend to think that given ED got 200 pre-preorders in less than two days with no advance warning, if didn't cap that and left it open for a week, I suspect he'd easily have got 500-800 pre-preorders that way. Add in a bit of publicity on the internet, and that could easily be doubled I reckon.

Now that's 300EUR pre-preorders, not 550EUR preorders, so that may be an easier decision for some people that others. But now we'll have videos and more information about what it can do, so hopefully more people would preorder one based on that publicity.

Those stretch goals look kind of weak for a KS project. Successful projects I've seen have dozens of things, mostly things you'll get in the final product - but most of the KS projects I've backed have been games or books, where it's relatively cheap to add a new class of object, or a new chapter or something. And I'm personally not sure the extra weight of an alu case is actually worth having over a strong plastic shell, but perhaps that's just me.

The big benefit I see currently to not running a KS and doing it all in-house is those 200 pre-preorders. They don't integrate especially well with the KS way of doing things (other sites may vary), so ED may need to refund all those pre-preorders risking some people will take the money rather than convert it into an actual preorder. Although I do recall one KS campaign which was basically a follow on to a pre-existing campaign that had succeeded, to improve a book that was already in production. So the first reward listed was actually an upgrade for people who'd already ordered the original version, and not an option that new people could validly select. Perhaps that is a valid way of working, but then again that was a book KS, so a little cheaper than a Pyra KS would be looking to raise.

 

[TrashyMG]

@Mr_Loon, are you sure that the rewards are doable? Like android official port or x86 Cpu board? Because I'm really not sure it could be, even if I would love it.

For the French translation you can count on me to help.

Yeah I agree, I'd steer away from goals that may be too lofty and out of the scope of the current project.

 

[Mr_Loon]

@Mr_Loon, are you sure that the rewards are doable? Like android official port or x86 Cpu board? Because I'm really not sure it could be, even if I would love it.

Not at all, they are just suggestions for ED of things I think that would generate interest and backers.

Those stretch goals look kind of weak for a KS project. Successful projects I've seen have dozens of things

Please feel free to add you own suggestions, that is the purpose of this thread

 

[bzar]

Kickstarter could maybe be used for a future CPU board to get enough volume for some nice new SoC. Rewards could range from just the CPU board for previous owners to full pyras with the new board for new customers. Since most of the production would be mature by then, production could be reasonably fast. For Pyra+OMAP5 I'd stick with DragonBox + distributors. Kickstarter works best when you have lots of hype value, and I don't think OMAP5 and nearly-functional software would do it

 

[fusion_power]

KS could be an option, problem is, ED is just to busy to also manage such an campaign besides his other jobs. It needs serious preparation and maintaining. ED was not even able to find time for his long planed Retro Pi KS campaign, which is compared a smaller campaign to the Pyra project.
I also see some "KS curse", every project that was successfuly funded took much more time than promissed, I would say 99%. That or it's the human nature to underestimate the effort from an Idea to an finished Product. We all here know this, others may not. ^^"

 

[levi]

Perhaps an alternate colour case could be offered as a stretch goal, only to be produced for those KS orders, making it a kind of special edition, which could offset the price increase to cover KS charges. I've not crunched numbers, but hopefully the number of orders necessary to make the KS succeed would be enough to make it affordable to produce units in an alternate colour.

 

[Grench]

Skip Kickstarter.

Take a video of the entire table of prototypes, all self contained and running on battery, with each one performing a different task/program. Pick each up, bring it to the camera, state what it is running, turn it around 360* and set it back down. Ship the prototypes that same day.

Open pre-orders through your site to the audience here. You sold 200 IOU credit to store vouchers and eight 1400EUR prototype pre-orders in under 2 days with no guarantee of 'success'. With multiple running/proven/shown prototypes, I'm conservatively guessing something int he order of 1000 units inside of a week.

After you cross 400 pre-orders (double what you have now), release that video with a write up to tech sites. Engadget, Liliputing, Wired, etc. Include a link to the pre-order site. At that point there should be -hundreds- of pre-orders already in. Herd mentality should kick in at that point.

Within a few days the prototype devs and purchasers should be putting up articles and pictures. Showing actual units in actual purchasers hands should give another boost.

Personally, I don't see any reason to involve an additional layer using a crowd funding site. You already have a crowd here - and nothing draws a bigger crowd like an already present crowd.

 

[Ian J]

Do either of the options stop people getting them early and then just selling them on for profit on ebay?

Would crowd-funding allow for more units to be built and stockpiled then shipped out in greater numbers to beat the buy it and sell it on ebay brigade?

 

[Rockthesmurf]

A lot of the successful Kick Starter campaigns are a very involved process. The best campaigns have regular pieces of information being released, time spent answering questions, etc. It can take a full month to prepare, and then pretty much a full month to keep on top of. Sure there are campaigns which don't do this that are still successful, but from what I have been told, to maximise your reason for doing the campaign, you need to invest some serious time. I have heard several people (including at talks at GDC) saying they completed underestimated how much time the Kick Starter campaign would take to do (the last thing you want to do is put in a sizeable amount of effort, but not enough, get 90% of the way towards your goal and fall short).

 

[Mr_Loon]

KS could be an option, problem is, ED is just to busy to also manage such an campaign besides his other jobs.

A lot of the successful Kick Starter campaigns are a very involved process. The best campaigns have regular pieces of information being released, time spent answering questions, etc.

I agree with both of the above, however I think a good crowd funding campaign will need a lot of time and effort put into it whether it's done via Kickstarter or in house, it's a positive for Kickstarter IMHO that they provide the tools to streamline this process.

 

[rygD]

I haven't read through the thread yet. Being realistic, KS or something seems to be the better option for actually getting enough preorders, as there will be more eyes on it. This is risky for a variety of reasons, and one that is a concern for me: paying part of the cost vs full cost up front. $600+ is a lot for me all at once right now, and I am sure others that aren't already interested in the Pyra may not be willing to risk it.

I would rather everything go through the shop, but that wasn't the question.

 

[Mr_Loon]

This is risky for a variety of reasons, and one that is a concern for me: paying part of the cost vs full cost up front.

There is an additional risk attached to this though, payments will be in Euros, there is always the risk of a significant shift shift in currency exchange rates, imagine if the US$ tanked versus the Euro between your first and second payments.

I would rather everything go through the shop, but that wasn't the question.

Not sure what you mean here, do you mean you wish you could just order a Pyra from stock?
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Had another idea about how we can help ED make the crowd funding a success : coordinated publicity, spreading the word via things like Reddit & Facebook & making posts and answering questions on other forums (not GPD style spamming) it would be useful to hear from @EvilDragon as to which forums / sites he intends to use to advertise / spread awareness of the Pyra so we can suggest ones he's missed and keep our collective eye on the comments sections / message boards. Also an understanding of with what & when ED wants help in terms of publicity would be good too.

 

[Grench]

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on wanting to do a Kickstarter. Hardly anyone simply browses kickstarter searching for a product. Most of the time it's something that caught on a media article that drives people to the KS site.

Make prototypes. Make video(s) of the multiple prototypes. Ship prototypes & open pre-orders. Send announcement of said activities to relevant media organizations. Heck, even the limited to 200 pre-pre-order popped in the media a bit. Show that you're full-on ready to go into mainline production with it and the news stories should drive traffic directly to the order page.

Skip the Kickstarter tax. It's one thing if you're a complete unknown trying to make your flashlight/bottle opener 'real'. DragonBox is an established company with real products and successes under it's belt. It shouldn't need Kickstarter.

 

[rygD]

Not sure what you mean here, do you mean you wish you could just order a Pyra from stock?

While I think KS has a better chance at getting more supporters, I would prefer to stick with EvilDragon/Dragonbox alone if he could get the needed sales through the shop, as was done with the prepreorders.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Kickstarter is especcially good if one doesn't have the infrastructure to do a crowdfunding on its own. But ED/Dragonbox has this: there is a large community (nowhere near as huge as kickstarter but with a very specific interest), and there is a shop system - with very flexible payment options.

Of course an in-house crowdfunding would also require some work, but at least the news part would'nt require that much extra work as ED is already used to post news here on a regularly basis. With Kickstarter, he would have to take care of yet another new site.

And In addition to the pay-only-the half-first thing you can make use of gift vouchers:
You could ask your friends an family to gift you some, you could choose to buy one each month to save up money beforehand (and supporting ED already) - and if you expect upcouming exchange rate troubles you could completly avoid them by buying enough vouchers before.

 

[Klumpen]

I tend to think that given ED got 200 pre-preorders in less than two days with no advance warning, if didn't cap that and left it open for a week, I suspect he'd easily have got 500-800 pre-preorders that way. Add in a bit of publicity on the internet, and that could easily be doubled I reckon.

Now that's 300EUR pre-preorders, not 550EUR preorders, so that may be an easier decision for some people that others. But now we'll have videos and more information about what it can do, so hopefully more people would preorder one based on that publicity.

Yep, ED already has an infrastructure which can probably be called a fanbase by now. Maybe in combination with articles about the prototype (when it's finished) on major tech sites there'll already be enough interest.