Credit Card Orders

[gaterooze]

Starting with the non-UK orders ensures that any potential loss due to exchange rates changing within the week is minimized (whether for the customers or for OpenPandora).

I'd tend to agree, but consider this: the opposite could happen. Waiting another few days could in fact benefit US customers. It's all crystal ball stuff.

 

[chiark]

QUOTE
I'm 99% sure you will be allowed to do so under the T&Cs of your credit card.

I highly doubt that this is true. The recipient of the money has certain rights, too. It would be easy to misuse the situation, if it was like you suppose. The recipient would lose money if the currency conversion would be ignored. I doubt that this is compliant to laws.

Mali, it's made a lot more complex by the fact that you're ordering goods that do not yet exist... It is a grey area but in short you as a consumer are exceptionally well protected when using a credit card (particularly in the UK as they fall under the regulations of the consumer credit act) and the merchant isn't. I realise the one country in which people are NOT affected by this is the UK

The banks caught a massive cold previously due to less than scrupulous people selling barrels of whisky that had yet to mature but guaranteeing an income from it which didn't arrive. Consumer protection laws kicked in, banks had to refund their customers, and ended up holding a hell of a lot of effectively worthless whisky.

Rules changed, network rules changed, laws changed...

Naturally the receipient has rights, however enforcing them can end up being a civil matter that the banks, & card networks won't get involved with.

I am not even trying to compare the Pandora team here, it's just an anecdote of what happened to cause banks to be so paranoid.

Enough of my pontificating, good luck with this, I look forward to batch 2!

 

[emil10001]

+1 to International Orders first.

Or, just post the re-order link for everybody (or stagger them by a day to avoid the servers being hit really hard), along with a few links to currency trends so that people can try to choose the best time, within a given time-frame (a week or two?), to re-order. This would discourage people from re-ordering immediately, because they would have the necessary information in front of them. This would require the least amount of effort on the Team's part, and would allow us buyers to feel a bit more responsible for our money. This might put a lot of peoples minds a bit more at ease, or at the least, give people a bit more understanding about what they are doing.

Something to this effect:
http://www.fxstreet.com/rates-charts/curre...aspx?id=GBP/USD

Edit: A quick thought, could we buy GBP based cash gift cards (like the AmEx or Visa Gift Cards) now, and use that to buy the pandora? This way, we could all get them while the exchange rate is really close to what it was for our refund, and we'd have the exact amount necessary to pay for the pandora. If this is possible, could someone suggest a decent company to buy them from?

 

[pferguso]

Oh god, are they a bank or a consortium of evil? :blink:

You mean there's a difference?

 

[salasq]

Oh god, are they a bank or a consortium of evil? :blink:

You mean there's a difference?

I've worked for both... no difference whatsoever.

 

[rmm2131]

Without harping on issues we are powerless to control, I think how Craig determines what countries get to CC reorder first(UK to start seems likely) will go a long way on revealing his concern for the customers who've backed this project. I'm interested in how we will be treated in the US in particular since the $ is so stable. <_<

Just for the record, about November 27th was when openpandora.org's blog was updated with the weekly news. Those who don't come here for Chip's bits are probably in need of an update i'd gather.

 

[mali]

If I had to decide, I would do it differently this time. They should create a specific US re-order site and keep the payment in $ instead of converting to pounds, as they have to pay the suppliers in $ anyway. If they have a separate site for each country, they could start re-ordering at once without worrying about overload. Maybe I think too simple, I don't know.

 

[emil10001]

If I had to decide, I would do it differently this time. They should create a specific US re-order site and keep the payment in $ instead of converting to pounds, as they have to pay the suppliers in $ anyway. If they have a separate site for each country, they could start re-ordering at once without worrying about overload. Maybe I think too simple, I don't know.

Which means that they would need another bank, in the US, to deposit the money into. It also means that those of us who were refunded would be paying more this time around, since we'd be paying 330 USD, plus shipping. That would guarantee that we would lose money.

What about my suggestion of buying GBP based cash gift cards and paying with those? Would that work? If so, who should we get them from?

 

[mali]

If I had to decide, I would do it differently this time. They should create a specific US re-order site and keep the payment in $ instead of converting to pounds, as they have to pay the suppliers in $ anyway. If they have a separate site for each country, they could start re-ordering at once without worrying about overload. Maybe I think too simple, I don't know.

Which means that they would need another bank, in the US, to deposit the money into. It also means that those of us who were refunded would be paying more this time around, since we'd be paying 330 USD, plus shipping. That would guarantee that we would lose money.


They pay the suppliers in $. They would double exchange the currency then.
I'm no banker, maybe it is possible to have an account in UK but still keep the money in $?

 

[emil10001]

If I had to decide, I would do it differently this time. They should create a specific US re-order site and keep the payment in $ instead of converting to pounds, as they have to pay the suppliers in $ anyway. If they have a separate site for each country, they could start re-ordering at once without worrying about overload. Maybe I think too simple, I don't know.

Which means that they would need another bank, in the US, to deposit the money into. It also means that those of us who were refunded would be paying more this time around, since we'd be paying 330 USD, plus shipping. That would guarantee that we would lose money.


They pay the suppliers in $. They would double exchange the currency then.


I'm not disagreeing that it might be better for them in terms of money coming in and going out. However, it would be worse for us, because there is a USD price ($330) set for the pandora, and it is likely higher than what a refund would be (it was for me), especially when you include shipping. This would also mean that they would likely need to set up another bank account, and I'm sure that doing such a thing, especially given the current situation, is not trivial and might take a few weeks. So, all things considered, I don't think that would be a good move.

My question is would it be feasible for us, the consumers, to buy a cash gift card in GBP for the same amount that we paid (and were refunded), in GBP? We could save the cost of the first exchange, and probably put some of the processing costs on the company that we're buying the gift card from. This way, we can make sure to get a rate that is close enough to the rate that we were refunded at, such that we don't lose more than a couple of dollars, and we will have the appropriate amount, in the appropriate currency ready for the re-order.

 

[dinglebery]

If I had to decide, I would do it differently this time. They should create a specific US re-order site and keep the payment in $ instead of converting to pounds, as they have to pay the suppliers in $ anyway. If they have a separate site for each country, they could start re-ordering at once without worrying about overload. Maybe I think too simple, I don't know.

Which means that they would need another bank, in the US, to deposit the money into. It also means that those of us who were refunded would be paying more this time around, since we'd be paying 330 USD, plus shipping. That would guarantee that we would lose money.


They pay the suppliers in $. They would double exchange the currency then.
I'm no banker, maybe it is possible to have an account in UK but still keep the money in $?



all of that falls into the realm of just what OP has worked out with its financial arrangements and any obligations they have .. business banking is allot more complicated than personal banking.. while it is possible to keep funds in currency paid its a service hed pay fees for ... just like the option of having an off shore bank is not something he can set up "spur of the moment" (at least here in the US. as i and others have mentioned before what alot of international companies do is pad the price for the goods and speculate on the dollar values .. thus charging a flat USD amount essentially some days they make 30$ profit others they make 28$ , still others they make 35$ it makes it seem like we pay a flat rate but all thats happening is they are doing the conversion for us and speculating on rate exchanges. with as transparent as OP has been about their profit margin this community would go rabid knowing thier getting a mark up .., but historically US consumers are just more comfortable having a flat fee instead of understanding exchange rate issues (as long as they dont know their essentially paying a fee for that service)

alot boils down to we just dont know till we see what OP has worked out and hopefully they find a middle ground that appeases most everyone if not everybody.

i know i sound like a broken record , and im all for talking it out if it helps folks feel better , IM not one for advocating blind faith no matter how much i believe in the OP project .. but the truth is those that preordered should have expected some issues on the way .. this is part of the ride, folks have got every rite on both sides to talk it out and decide for themselves whats best for them, and were their limits are .. but ultimately when you signed up for this preorder you were signing up to get a venture project off the ground and running with that comes all the high points and all the setbacks and low points, ive literally blown up machinery costing excess of 15 grand working out the "kinks" and to my employer thats acceptable loss, but it still dosnt make you feel any better about it .. but when it works out and you can now build a machine that makes the same product for 5 grand it all pays out in the end ..

right now thats everyone here and everyone (on both sides OP and those that preordered) has to decide for themselves were their limits of acceptability and responsibility are.


and now for lighter news just saw on my ticker Sonys shuting down some of its us operations and claims to be laying off 8000 workers stateside by the first ... ahh the joys (couldnt happen to a nicer company thou .. well mabey microsoft snicker.. )

 

[TaG]

Oh god, are they a bank or a consortium of evil? :blink:
You mean there's a difference?I've worked for both... no difference whatsoever.Rubbish. Everyone knows the consortium of evil pays better. Unless you're lucky enough to get some of those city bonuses.

alot boils down to we just dont know till we see what OP has worked out and hopefully they find a middle ground that appeases most everyone if not everybody.
...but the truth is those that preordered should have expected some issues on the way .. this is part of the ride, folks have got every rite on both sides to talk it out and decide for themselves whats best for them, and were their limits are .. but ultimately when you signed up for this preorder you were signing up to get a venture project off the ground and running with that comes all the high points and all the setbacks and low points...
right now thats everyone here and everyone (on both sides OP and those that preordered) has to decide for themselves were their limits of acceptability and responsibility are.

Yep. All good points.

and now for lighter news just saw on my ticker Sonys shuting down some of its us operations and claims to be laying off 8000 workers stateside by the first ... ahh the joys (couldnt happen to a nicer company thou .. well mabey microsoft snicker.. )
Geez. Just how deep is this all going to cut? Many companies / industries are coming to a standstill. Scarey stuff.

 

[raytaller]

Banks are evil.
Money is bad.
andora1: is good

I'll reorder it no matter the price :lol: !
I personally despise $$ too much to worry about it.
That's why I don't have much money, because I quickly get rid of it to get real things instead.
I have the opportunity to contribute to a historical project ? I think it worth a few fuckin $$
Keep it up guys !

 

[yashton]

I've seen this suggested several times, but I think craigx and company should get a lawyer. This bank has impeded legitimate business dealings and very much abused their clients. Even the threat of legal action should grease some wheels.

 

[MDave]

Holy hell! The following words need to be in Bold with a 24pt font on the NEWS section and BLOG section:

"If you notice a difference in the amount refunded vs. the amount you payed, please be aware that the amount refunded to you is all that is needed to place your re-order."



This.

 

[j.pickens]

I've seen this suggested several times, but I think craigx and company should get a lawyer. This bank has impeded legitimate business dealings and very much abused their clients. Even the threat of legal action should grease some wheels.

I don't know if you live in the UK, but a completely different business climate exists there when compared to the US. Bankers and Lawyers are part of a professional class in the UK which has a surprising amount of discretionary power not available in the US.
Contracts are enforceable, but time and fees are basically uncontrolled.
As long as the Banker could justify his fees, and eventually fulfill his bargain, no matter how long it takes, it would be nearly impossible to successfully pursue any meaningful action against him.
That is my understanding, based upon many years of observing business transactions "over there" in the UK from the Western side of the pond.
For a literary example of this, I recommend "Bleak House" by Charles Dickens.

 

[masoukishi]

man i would not mind paying more if the extra money was going to OP. I'm sure they're losing some money by all the issues and cancellations...

hopefully when the US reorder page comes up we would be gaining money instead of losing (you never know).

 

[Zor Prime]

Lets get rolling Craig. Got the refund, and I currently have my wife held with my other hand.

She's trying to run out the door right now as I type, I don't know how much longer I can restrain her from running out into the night and spending my Pandora refund cash.

I'll try to hold her back as long as I can, but I need your help. All I ask is a CC reorder page for USD in the amount that I was refunded, and us Pandorians in the United States can all prevail against the very same evil that is facing me at this very moment.

 

[White Demon]

Starting with the non-UK orders ensures that any potential loss due to exchange rates changing within the week is minimized (whether for the customers or for OpenPandora).

I'd tend to agree, but consider this: the opposite could happen. Waiting another few days could in fact benefit US customers. It's all crystal ball stuff.
But if you go by that logic, you'd never buy anything, since no matter how good the exchange rates gets, it just might be a little better next week.

Then the market crashes and the whole thing blows up in your face.

I still stand by what I said originally. Show the rest of the world (US/Europe/everyone else) a bit of love for a change, and open cc orders for them first, so that we get in with an exchange rate as close as possible to the refund.

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

All I ask is a CC reorder page for USD in the amount that I was refunded

I just got refunded, I'm in Brazil. So most refunds are probably done already.
Will there be a special page for me to re-order everything with the same money?
Thank you!