Credit Card Orders

[dinglebery]

if you have a case for a charge back you get EXACTLY what you spent in USD back minus trasaction and processing fees..

That's a very good point which I hand't considered. It seems a lot of credit providers also charge the cardholder a fee for initiating a chargeback? From what I can see, it can be $20-30. So maybe a chargeback is not the smartest option in this case...

Or am I wrong about that?


from my personal experiences BOTH banks get "fees/fines" what ever you want to call them and in turn pass those on with probably a mark up (read proccessing fee) onto the buyer/seller repectively ..

from a comunity stand point no its probably one of the worst things to do since everyone going to take a big hit on all sides and i garaunty the respective banks wouldnt flip the bill..

from a personal stand point that depends on how jaded you are and how much of a loss yould take in exchange rates verses the multiple proccessing fees as well as the chargeback fee ....


and just to clarify .. im in this for the long haul, as long as things dont go belly up .. just was clarifying about visa chargebacks what i know of how they work and why they arnt really a good idea for anyone looking to stay in this game ...

 

[Mjlink]

Chargebacks are not cool for anyone other than the person initiating it.

I work for a company that accepts credit cards. If people can manage to sneak away with their signed copy of a credit card receipt, they can initiate a chargeback & keep the product & get the money back. The credit card merchant services almost always sides with the consumer (unless they notice this trend).

Another industry leading domain registrar would permanently flag a credit card # based on a chargeback. Accounts were frozen until payments were made.

In terms of OP, any of us initiating a chargeback are hurting OP. Banks never take the hit on fees, whether you bounce a check or deposit one that bounces. $30 is average fee for an overdraft.

Relax peeps. We'll get our money back when this bank quits bogarting the joint!

 

[krooked]

QUOTE
In terms of OP, any of us initiating a chargeback are hurting OP. Banks never take the hit on fees, whether you bounce a check or deposit one that bounces. $30 is average fee for an overdraft.

+1

 

[BenTolputt]

QUOTE
this is exactly why its so hard to post a discussion on clarification on certain events. everyone complains and complains about lack of updates, when there isnt much to say, then they pick it apart, saying its not an update and complain they didnt get all their money, when in fact they were given exactly that amount back, but when it exchanged currency's it came out less.
i am saddened by the people that are leaving the community because of this bump in the road, but from the sounds of their comments, this really is just filtering out all the A-holes that should be buying their Funputers from Toys R Us anyway. good riddance.

Right, let's lump all people not praising OpenPandora as being stupid A-holes because of a $400+ "bump in the road" has them worried (most smart people worry about money too, but hey - we're generalising here!). Let's ignore the fact that a loss of ~$70 could feed a student for a week. And let's tell people coming here because they're worried about something they expected to give/get as a Christmas present to "go look at lolcats all day".

This is so bad, it's like not only is the car salesman ignoring you because you are a woman - the other people in the car yard are asking why you aren't home in the kitchen cooking your husband's dinner! Some people just don't think.

 

[Asmo]

This is so bad, it's like not only is the car salesman ignoring you because you are a woman - the other people in the car yard are asking why you aren't home in the kitchen cooking your husband's dinner! Some people just don't think.



I liken it to running on deck and warning passengers the ship might be sinking then being thrown overboard because they believe that if it is, it's only because you pointed at the Iceberg lodged in the hull.



Ironically, once thrown overboard I cling to the iceberg which dislodges it and allows water to enter the ship, so I end up being responsible after all. Or something.

 

[ShyGuy]

Just thought I'd mention, woo, refunded. Took 13 days, which is about as long as I've seen, so I'd suggest people give their's at least that much time.

Bring on the reorder page

 

[krooked]

EDIT: i am removing this comment to prevent provoking a silly and pointless argument with people i will never meet somewhere else the in the world.

thanks for the update craig.

 

[salasq]

Right, let's lump all people not praising OpenPandora as being stupid A-holes because of a $400+ "bump in the road" has them worried (most smart people worry about money too, but hey - we're generalising here!)

No smart person would risk $400 they couldn't afford to lose.

 

[dinglebery]

1) i am a student and 70 could feed me for 2-3 weeks

ahh the joys of Ramen noodles snickers bars coke and those prepacked nuclear oarnge maccaroni things .....

i remember those days.. for the life of me i cant stand to even step foot in a Dell taco any more .. and that was splurgeing back in those days :>

thou my roomies and i did splurge once a month n get frosted flakes, marshmallow fluff and M&M's to make bars for when we came home late on those 4:20 freindly nights ...

 

[BenTolputt]

QUOTE
No smart person would risk $400 they couldn't afford to lose.

And no smart businessman would refer to buying their product as a "risk"...

 

[Esn]

Hey Craig, I read in another thread from Chip that when you put up the cc reorder pages, you're gonna do it UK first, then Europe, US, ROW.

Due to problems with differing exchange rates, surely it would be better to do it Europe, US, ROW (or US, Europe, ROW) with UK being last, since they are the only ones that don't have to worry about exchange rates?

I would have theought this would be the most logical way, so that everyone who isn't in the UK will have the least amount of difference in exchange rates between the refund/reorder as possible.

Please consider this.

/that is all

 

[Phawx]

In a weird way BenT, we were "investing" into a company although we've only preordered a product.

By putting our money behind Pandora LTD, we are putting our money on the line to get the first Pandora's and start the real developing.

I understand where you are coming from, but I also get where everyone else is coming from as well.

Just thought I would chime in that I got a refund email and have yet to receive an email.

 

[dinglebery]

Hey Craig, I read in another thread from Chip that when you put up the cc reorder pages, you're gonna do it UK first, then Europe, US, ROW.

Due to problems with differing exchange rates, surely it would be better to do it Europe, US, ROW (or US, Europe, ROW) with UK being last, since they are the only ones that don't have to worry about exchange rates?

I would have theought this would be the most logical way, so that everyone who isn't in the UK will have the least amount of difference in exchange rates between the refund/reorder as possible.

Please consider this.

/that is all



while i cant say i wouldnt apreciate the gesture .. i think most of the dev team is UK based (if not all) and i wouldnt begrudge them showing alittle home town love either .. it wouldnt exactly make my day but i wouldnt throw a stink over it either

 

[White Demon]

if you have a case for a charge back you get EXACTLY what you spent in USD back minus trasaction and processing fees..
That's a very good point which I hand't considered. It seems a lot of credit providers also charge the cardholder a fee for initiating a chargeback? From what I can see, it can be $20-30. So maybe a chargeback is not the smartest option in this case...

Or am I wrong about that?
Well I don't know what credit card you're using, but I do know that when VISA (the card type I have) do a chargeback, they only issue you a fee if the chargeback is refused. If the chargeback goes through, you get 100% of your money back (what you paid in your currency) and the fee goes through to the other end (in this case Craig & co).

 

[PoisonedV]

Also please don't request charge backs - this only leads the bank to believe they were 'right' to do this and weakens our argument that there were wrong - they have also told us they plan to charge us $38 for every charge back they receive just to kick us while we are down due to their actions.

Oh god, are they a bank or a consortium of evil? :blink:

"If you notice a difference in the amount refunded vs. the amount you payed, please be aware that the amount refunded to you is all that is needed to place your re-order."

I am sorry but this is not what I read so far. So far we've had people theorizing that this is how it's gonna work out, but it's only if the exchange rate doesn't screw us over twice.
Or is there some formal statement that we will be able to pay in the currency we've been refunded the amount we've been refunded.
People didn't lose $70 or 30 Euros by chance. They lost that money through exchange rate, during the space of... a month and a half at the most. Now, how long are some of us waiting for the credit card reorder page?


i too, am very interested in this.

 

[dinglebery]

Also please don't request charge backs - this only leads the bank to believe they were 'right' to do this and weakens our argument that there were wrong - they have also told us they plan to charge us $38 for every charge back they receive just to kick us while we are down due to their actions.

Oh god, are they a bank or a consortium of evil? :blink:



ill go with "a consortium of evil" ..

cue over dramatic music ... enter stage left "DR. EVIL" ......

sorry just had too ...

 

[dinglebery]

Well I don't know what credit card you're using, but I do know that when VISA (the card type I have) do a chargeback, they only issue you a fee if the chargeback is refused. If the chargeback goes through, you get 100% of your money back (what you paid in your currency) and the fee goes through to the other end (in this case Craig & co).

i could be mistaken but i dont think VISA has any jurisdiction over the fees i think they set up "guidelines" but from my experience its up to whatever financial institution backs your card as far as how processing fees are handled..

we had to drop a carrier once at work cause the fees were so bad for parts that were costing more to import than they were actually worth...

have to remember in this day and age of subletting banking and business theres two main groups of cards out there now .. those directly from Visa and those "backed by Visa" but are actually handled by whatever financial organisation that issued you your card.

ask anyone in the financial area of manufacturing or retail just dealing with the millions of variations of cards in the US is a major legal mess :> thats why most company's pay someone else to do it for them :>

 

[gorman]

No smart person would risk $400 they couldn't afford to lose.

No. We either didn't risk anything or there was misconduct and/or miscommunication on Pandora's behalf.
The e-mail I received after I ordered mentioned, very clearly:

You bought: 1 x 32GB SD & 1 x Pandora (UPS)

It didn't say "You bought: 1 x 32 GB SD & a Pandora if we ever get around producing it, don't start fighting with banks, don't mess up with PayPal or whatever else we'd like to throw at you".
And salasq, and all the others, just to be clear: this is directed at YOU, not Pandora.

It's directed at fanboys that keep on harping on everything being fine, flying in the face of simple logic. Quit this behaviour, you are doing a disservice to Pandora.

It's easier to be understanding if you don't have people around you constantly blabbering "Stupid, told you so".

To be clearer yet, I still plan on re-ordering but there needs to be:

1) Clearer, much clearer communication on the website, not the forums.
2) Less and less smart people trying to arm-wrestle other people in feeling "all right".

 

[mali]

I have to agree. We all(myself included) should renew our solidarity as a community regardless of the hassle we are experiencing
Let's try to start a bitching-free period.

 

[Esn]

while i cant say i wouldnt apreciate the gesture .. i think most of the dev team is UK based (if not all) and i wouldnt begrudge them showing alittle home town love either .. it wouldnt exactly make my day but i wouldnt throw a stink over it either

Gestures are nice and all, but in this case, time is money for everyone except the UK orders. Starting with the non-UK orders ensures that any potential loss due to exchange rates changing within the week is minimized (whether for the customers or for OpenPandora).