Craig Will This Help?

[masoukishi]

Introduction

After through the entire "transfers...tranzfers" thread, I noticed that there is a lot of garbage (the complaints from both sides) which made me think that there is no way craigx or chip can practically get an answer from the community. Now this may be a stupid thing to do, but the way I see it, all craig wanted was what we thought about his idea, or to suggest other possible solutions to this big mess. Personally, I think he is approaching it the wrong way, but I feel we should give him what he wants. So I start this thread as a general SUGGESTIONS (NOT COMPLAINING/ACCUSING) thing. Please, try not to express your complaints here, you can go do that in the transfers thread since that has gone so out of control that you will most likely not get any information from it. And DON'T SPECULATE as it is distorting the official facts. Also, this isn't a thread about what they did wrong (that can go in the transfers thread, since that is exactly what is going on in there). This is about what they should do, so that they can get some insight from the community. A lot of the suggestions in the poll are what people have said in the transfers thread, but I don't think anyone really wants to read 26 pages if most of it is just complaints and pointless back and forth arguments (ie the bank transfer v. CC debate)

To help make suggestions, I have summarized the situation based on official posts (someone correct me if I am wrong anywhere).

Official Facts
- They can't accept CC orders right now, since they have reached their max on google checkout and the banks refuse to accept it.

Well well well, we reached our limit on googlecheckout.

- Tranzfers is a cheap way to make an international bank transfer, and is apparently, a safe way (in terms of transferring the money, not in terms of getting your money back in a "what if" situation) to do it as well

So, solutions, well http://www.tranzfers.com/ costs $5 to make a transfer at a sensible rate. Several of you used this and it works very well.


- For the HSBC and Amex users, you don't have to worry about it because OP has decided to take the hit and pay for it themselves since they refuse to cooperate

Oh and if HSBC really won't refund those AMEX orders we will just have to take the hit and honour them anyway. I've had a meeting with them about it but I may as well have been speaking to a brick wall.

- Craig will discount part of the reorder amount when you make an international wire the standard way (through your bank) if it is really too much for you to bear. (might require an email to OP confirming how much is discounted.)

Well, if this is proof enough, he discounted $15 out of the $30 fee for me - I just transfered $15 less than what I was refunded.

- They can't use paypal. PERIOD.

Paypal is not a reliable option. Their fees are absurdly high, and they locked our account the last time for no particular reason. I know a lot of you have latched on to the idea that it had something to do with the delay between ordering and shipping, but I assure you Paypal is not that smart or involved. There was never a person who said "Hey, I wonder what all these orders are for" and went and did some research and found out that the product wouldn't ship for a couple months. You could pay me $200 for a bucket full of unicorn poo over Paypal and it wouldn't be a problem for them. But if I tried to sell a million dollars worth of actual merchandise that I have ready to ship today, there is a very good chance their "fraud detection" algorithms would lock my account and keep my money for 90 days just because they can.

Craig had a Paypal account that rarely saw more than a few hundred dollars per month in transactions. Then, all in one week, there were tens of thousands of dollars in international payments. An algorithm in Paypal's computer system flagged that as "probable fraud" and locked the account. If we take Paypal again, the same problem will occur. There is no way around it.

- They sent out the google checkout reorder email one person at a time to prevent a flood of money being transferred
- They have enough money to fund all pandoras that have been paid for, but not enough money to make the rest of it (4000). Basically, when you pay, you guarantee production of your pandora.

How many people need to preorder? None. We don't need money from anybody else to make Pandoras for those who have already paid.

- The problem with CC is the unknown shipping date.

What do you think? The credit card route is just causing us nightmares if we don't ship anything. (and in general)

My Suggestions to OP
I like the local bank idea, where they open a bank account in each local country to reduce costs. If that isn't possible, then they should elaborate and give a detailed set of instructions about how we can get our transfer fees discounted, since some of the CC orderers don't want to do the bank transfer because of the high fees involved in an international wire (myself included). The CD idea seems way too sketchy for it to actually work, same with the GC idea, except that one is less sketchy. If indeed the shipping date is the problem with the CC reordering, then they should wait until they can actually ship pandoras before attempting to accept CC orderings again. Although this would mean we would have to wait longer, thus risking more loss of money via currency fluctuations, it would still guarantee a successful transaction when the actual CC orders are made. In addition, it would mean that we would be getting our pandoras for real. However, they should at least ask the bank if this is indeed the problem. Since there isn't enough information, I actually do not know what the real nature of the CC problem is (like with paypal. Many people thought the problem to be the 20 day shipping thing, but that did not turn out to be the case) I feel they're stressed out at trying to make everyone happy, and so they are jumping the gun and trying many different things without really thinking it through, which is causing more problems. They should first sort things out with the bank about the CC issue, and see if they can come up with a solution. I remember that craig previously said that the bank will accept 40% of the orders in CC, but now the problem is with the shipping. This leads me to thinking that they actually have no clue what the real problem is. Sure this will upset a lot of the CC customers because they are risking their money to currency fluctuations, but at least this will ensure less problems to occur later on (maybe customers complaining about google checkout making another refund (WHICH AS I UNDERSTAND IS NOT TRUE AS OF NOW just stated as an example)?)

I'm sure a lot of people don't like what I am attempting to do here, and this thread will probably spiral out of control and go down into flames, but hey, its worth a try

 

[MDave]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

Thats means there could be a split for the 4000 pandora's. 1st half for the bank transfer customers then a small gap until all 2nd half pandora's are able to be shipped from the credit card money they get to make the 2nd half of the first batch pandora's.

 

[dsleaf67]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

Thats means there could be a split for the 4000 pandora's. 1st half for the bank transfer customers then a small gap until all 2nd half pandora's are able to be shipped from the credit card money they get to make the 2nd half of the first batch pandora's.

This would be my preference as well

 

[Alpha2]

Yeah I said it myself as well. If I cant send a check then simply stop the preorders all together. Wait untill the systems are ready to ship and then ope up the CC path again so the preorderers can continue.

The whole problem came from trying to start Preorders too early for the banks liking. it would have been nice to send the money in now and get it over with but if they can build all 4000 with the money they have the people will be more than happy to pay for their's when the production units are ready to go and can ship withing 30 days of the completed order so that the banks dont pitch a fit anymore.

Letting the people who can do wire transfers do them is fine as long as the people who preordered by CC arnt squeezed out, but if that cant be done fairly then cease taking them. if the team can afford to make them then there's no reason to rush to throw money at them.

 

[Username]

I thought the gift card idea was great.

 

[Alpha2]

unfortunately the common opinion is that they wouldnt work as well for the people who simply want the security of creditcard orders. there are hundreds of people here on the GP32x forums that dont have that fear but for the thousands that were clued in to the device buy Digg and Endgaget, they dont have a history here nor do they know how trustworthy the people involved are.

Stopping the preorders untill the systems can be ordered by creditcard is the simplest easiest answer.

 

[Consequence_9]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

Thats means there could be a split for the 4000 pandora's. 1st half for the bank transfer customers then a small gap until all 2nd half pandora's are able to be shipped from the credit card money they get to make the 2nd half of the first batch pandora's.

+1 This seems to be the most viable solution at this point.

 

[dekutree64]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

+1

The only useful reasons I can think to take preorders so far in advance are to determine the batch size (which is set at 4000) and to pay for the parts and manufacturing (which they have enough for). They shouldn't even need to separate everyone into two groups. Surely there will be at least a week between the final go-ahead for production and actually getting them into the mail to people, to take the last few CC orders.

 

[DCillusion]

I think I stated this about 5 times in the transferz thread. I'm for the Gift Card option. I see no way that this is less secure than Credit Cards. I would have started this thread myself if I knew how to set up voting. Thank you, masoukishi.

By the way, & I don't mean anything by this, but isn't waiting until this is sorted out any option, at any time, for anyone. Please don't take away any more viable options.

 

[mcqfesijiba2]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

Thats means there could be a split for the 4000 pandora's. 1st half for the bank transfer customers then a small gap until all 2nd half pandora's are able to be shipped from the credit card money they get to make the 2nd half of the first batch pandora's.

I have looked over my transfer options, including tranzfers.com, and would also lean towards waiting and paying via CC, if given the option. I no longer care too much about my place in the 'queue'.

 

[dsleaf67]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

Thats means there could be a split for the 4000 pandora's. 1st half for the bank transfer customers then a small gap until all 2nd half pandora's are able to be shipped from the credit card money they get to make the 2nd half of the first batch pandora's.

I have looked over my transfer options, including tranzfers.com, and would also lean towards waiting and paying via CC, if given the option. I no longer care too much about my place in the 'queue'.

ditto...as long as I'm still in first batch and original cost to me in pounds, even if I take a hit on conversion back to my currency. Surely since shipping should be no more than 2 months away anyway. I hope!

 

[Esn]

I honestly don't know. I don't think I have enough information to decide what's best. I hope someone from the team makes another post soon, hopefully with more clarity and detail this time.

But I would like to thank you for starting this thread, and for summarizing the situation so well (with references, too).

 

[kloplop321]

Well, bank transfers don't have as much security(and high cost to us), and my mom(who is the one that has control on how it gets transfered) seems wary of this Tranzfers, site, so CC, like the first time, seems the best choice for her

 

[Daryoon]

Unless OP has the ability to produce and deliver all 4000 preorders (consistent with their prior representations) without further preorder cash, any solution seems untenable.

 

[godfather]

I thought the gift card idea was great.

My thoughts exactly <_<
andora1:

 

[TaG]

They should wait until closer to shipping out the consoles.
Basically wait until they are in the 'safe-zone' with accepting Credit Card orders within 30 days of taking the orders and shipping the pandora.

Thats means there could be a split for the 4000 pandora's. 1st half for the bank transfer customers then a small gap until all 2nd half pandora's are able to be shipped from the credit card money they get to make the 2nd half of the first batch pandora's.

+1

Unfortunately, although this seems the best solution, we don't have enough information to know if this solves OP's problems. We really could do with an official update...

 

[gruso]

I've stopped following this issue really (I'm paid up), but I did register with Tranzfers the other day and heard from them today (via email & voicemail). So I'll post everything I've learned, then go back to doing something more interesting.

- I had provided them with enough info on signup that they didn't require any paper information from me (it would have been a photocopy of my license, something like that). The phone call is part of their procedure for new customers, I gather it's just a bit of "real" chat so they know you're not a spambot, domestic cat, or Peruvian money launderer.

- They are owned by / are the same company as http://www.ozforex.com.au/ ...which instantly tells me they are a well established and reputable operation.

- They list a contact number in their email for "North America" which is the Canada number on their site. So if you're in the US, that should be a free call.

- Some unbiased/unsolicited customer discussions:
http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/archive/in...php/t-6619.html
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377178

All said and done, there is no doubt in my mind that these guys are trustworthy. I'll email them back to let them know I don't need to complete my registration (with an apology for wasting their time).

I notice the unofficial blog already has a few hits from their site, as a matter of interest - I guess a few applicants have named the project as their reason for signing up.

 

[Alpha2]

The biggest problem for most people is that we simply dont do bank transfers all that often so the process is alien and scary. Handing money off to someone else to do the buying for you so to speak and in a situation like this where many people are unclear on many things and they dont hit the forums on a daily bassis for news and info, it just makes for more uncertainty forcing them to seek the easiest and most familiar method.

Honestly at this point there's no chance of seeing one before mid Feb. so what's the rush. They have information on who were the first 4000 people to preorder, save those email addresses and when those units are ready to go send out the letters.

Now if it's a situation where they cant finish paying for everything without our money then just say it plainly and clearly so we can here it and make a choice on how best to proceed for ourselves. If they DONT say anything then the assumption is that we'll see the production start up and we'll have the ability to reorder our Pandoras then when they're boxed and well within the 30 day cut off.

 

[stustaff]

Ok those voting for Gift certificate and CD please understand what that means.

I want to order by CC because then if OP dissapears due to unforseen circumstances I get my money back.

If they allow me to buy a CD using my CC and then send me the CD but not the Pandora I get NO money back because as far as the CC company are concerned what I purchased was a CD and I got that.

therefore the CD/gift certificate option is just as insecure as a Bank transfer so doesnt resolve the main issue for many CC people.

And again when I talk about secure I mean in terms of getting money back if no Pandora ships.

Bank transfers, CC etc are all secure in that the money you send will get to OP(only thing not it seems are paypal and AMEX)

Im in favour of Craig giving me his address so i can pop round give him cash and accept a Pandora. however realistically I favour them putting BT people to the front and producing theirs and then producing batches of a couple of hundred and accepting CC orders from them.

In fact I would be happy to do BT if i could actually see a batch of pandoras ready to ship! I think that would be the case for a LOT of people.

 

[quartercast]

I like the local bank idea, where they open a bank in each local country to reduce costs.

We think alike! But you should change "open a bank" to "open a bank account". And it doesn't have to be in each local country, it could be on each continent, for example.