Ce Certification Now Invalid?

[Jumpman]

CLOSE THREAD!


Chris

 

[EvilDragon]

The testing had been done at a certified CE testing lab (see some pictures here).

CE testing includes anything up to 1GHz, no WLAN testing is required for CE, I asked those questions at the laboratory multiple times to really confirm this.

I can send you a full 50+ pages PDF document about the complete testing setup and the results if you want.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

ZING! 1,000,000 points to Ed

 

[spaceballs3000]

The testing had been done at a certified CE testing lab (see some pictures here).

CE testing includes anything up to 1GHz, no WLAN testing is required for CE, I asked those questions at the laboratory multiple times to really confirm this.

Yes I remember you saying this before in this Post

Another interesting thing is what he did tell me about FCC.
According to him, we don't even need FCC. FCC is only for radio devices (like wireless microphones, etc.), but not stuff like computers or gaming devices like ours here. They're running an FCC certified testing site, so they should know.

Seems like the Pandora team didn't tell the CE certification group that this gaming device has an un-certificated Radio module in it (which I have confirmed.)

Then you need to ask them about Directive 99/5/EC Radio and telecommunications terminal equipment and why it doesn't apply to you (because I'm sure it does), here is a simple example of a ZigBee Radio that works at 2.4ghz that talks about CE RF Radio requirements.

I can send you a full 50+ pages PDF document about the complete testing setup and the results if you want.

Sure feel free, but that doesn't change my previous post points (i.e. walk-talkie.)

 

[gruso]

This is dumb and should be closed. No one cares.

 

[spaceballs3000]

ED hope this clears this up

from http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/Spring/cutler1.html

The European Union harmonized the majority of nations' requirements for unlicensed devices in the 2.4 GHz band under the Radio and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) Directive of 2000. Beginning in April 2001, all radio devices operating in the 2.4 GHz band must be approved under a CE marking process. Meeting the essential requirements enables declaration of CE conformity.

Manufacturers must notify each EU country of intentions to market a device in that country. Each country has four weeks to deny the right to market, and lack of denial notice means acceptance. As in the United States, in Europe an unlicensed device can be CE marked at the radio or device level. If a CE marked radio module is to be integrated into a device, the device manufacturer or marketer (although not needing to have the device retested for the radio) must submit the device for the required testing to meet the CE criteria for that device. The manufacturer or marketer is also required to notify each country of its intention to market the product in that country.

So your required to use "Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) Directive of 2000.", no if and or but.

 

[mali]

Sorry, but the design is set in stone. If you want a walkie talkie, you have to search elsewhere

 

[spaceballs3000]

Sorry, but the design is set in stone. If you want a walkie talkie, you have to search elsewhere

They have Rev2,3,4,5 and now testing a Rev6 of the board.. Stone, na.. play-dough?

 

[Despellanion]

If I didn't know better (which I don't), I'd say that this topic make it seem that spaceballs3000 intentionally want to cause more unnecessary delays in the project. Or is it simply just random trolling? I don't visit this forums much so I don't know.

 

[mali]

They have Rev2,3,4,5 and now testing a Rev6 of the board.. Stone, na.. play-dough?

No, they don't, sweetheart. The rev. 6 is a test design and not for production.
You don't seem to know that much, like you didn't know how many people will do assembly. Maybe you should do more research before posting, just a thought

 

[mvickers03]

I second that Grusy baby

 

[spaceballs3000]

...
There is no such thing invalid CE certification.
...

BTW from http://www.cemarking.net/services/ce-jump-start/

The most important step in the CE marking certification process is to determine whether the CE marking applies to a product, and if so, which harmonized standards and conformity assessment procedures are available for the product. Because, when the CE requirements are applied incorrectly (or worse: if the wrong requirements are applied), the CE marking will be invalid, and products can be prohibited from sales in Europe. And all your efforts would be in vain!

If the Notified Body that certifies an device without knowing that it has a 2.4ghz radio on it, then the CE marking will be invalid.

 

[WizardStan]

They have Rev2,3,4,5 and now testing a Rev6 of the board.. Stone, na.. play-dough?

ED mentioned the Rev6 board that MWeston MIGHT be designing as a possible fix. MWeston later said that the resistor change was pushed to the factory who will now begin populating the next 3200 Rev5 boards with it.
Any change to the PCB wouldn't be until batch 2. If you want to argue that those might need a recertification (assuming they do, in fact, change the board, which is highly unlikely now that the cause of the glitch has been found and the fix proven to work so well) then by all means, do it then. This batch shouldn't need to be retested, at least not because of any PCB changes.

 

[spaceballs3000]

They have Rev2,3,4,5 and now testing a Rev6 of the board.. Stone, na.. play-dough?

ED mentioned the Rev6 board that MWeston MIGHT be designing as a possible fix. MWeston later said that the resistor change was pushed to the factory who will now begin populating the next 3200 Rev5 boards with it.
Any change to the PCB wouldn't be until batch 2. If you want to argue that those might need a recertification (assuming they do, in fact, change the board, which is highly unlikely now that the cause of the glitch has been found and the fix proven to work so well) then by all means, do it then. This batch shouldn't need to be retested, at least not because of any PCB changes.

In regards to the CE marking that was certified by the Notified Body, any changes done that impacts the RF radio, like a resistor change or PCB change (like it did in Pandora case.) It would be treated the same i.e. from that point on the certification from the Notified Body doesn't apply anymore.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

[sarcasm]I know, why don't we take an already stressed Ed and then try to force him to have a complete break down with some armchair project management?[/sarcasm]

 

[mali]

I think we should thank spaceballs for his suggustions and I'm happy that ED will do FCC testing and whatever fancy acronyms people need on earth.
In the meantime I'll feel like real pirate radiating with my little Wifi cannon.

Thanks!

 

[zounder1]

I wonder what revision of board went through the CE testing? Was it the board with the defect or the previous generation without the defect? If the latter, than the repairs being done are just making the board the same as the board that passed CE.

Lots of testing labs are certified to test for multiple standards. Some labs do CSA /CE / everything but the kitchen sink / etc, all at once to simplify the certification process. You don't have to do the testing in each country that has different standards. It is actually becoming common for labs to do all the certifications all at once as there are so many different standards to sell a product worldwide. The bottom of my Lenovo is like a veritable billboard of worldwide certification logos - and I strongly suspect all those logos certifications were done by one company.

So hopefully they used a lab that can do all these tests if required.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

Well, I have a son now, so I don't mind if this thing makes me sterile

 

[WizardStan]

In regards to the CE marking that was certified by the Notified Body, any changes done that impacts the RF radio, like a resistor change or PCB change (like it did in Pandora case.) It would be treated the same i.e. from that point on the certification from the Notified Body doesn't apply anymore.

Resistor maybe, but not the PCB. The PCB change DID NOT HAPPEN! It hasn't happened yet, it may happen with second batch though possibly not, but in any case, whether or not MWeston was working on a new revision to the PCB to fix the WiFi has absolutely no bearing whatsoever in any way shape or form on the probability of them having to do any sort of additional testing on the Pandora before it can ship. Every time you talk about something that is easily refuted, it brings down the impact and credibility of the other information you are trying to present.

 

[EvilDragon]

Look, I told the certified (certified by the authorities in Germany!) lab multiple times it has WiFi.
And they confirmed me multiple times that CE doesn't care about WiFi.
Nevertheless, the big FCC test is still coming and planned as soon as we get the first mass produced devices (I also mentioned that a few times back then).

Unfortunately, for FCC, you have to wait for the first mass produced devices - which we will have in 1 - 2 weeks.
That means that the big test which will get us ALL certifications needed will probably ake place while we're assembling.

There are companies like TUEV Nord in Germany that are specialized on testing and getting all the certifications you need to sell it in whatever area you tell them.
Those tests do cost a LOT of money (approx. 10-20k EUR), therefore, we planned that testing as soon as we get the first mass produced units.

BTW: That resistor didn't change anything in the WiFi area. The WiFi chip was working well before, it reported a very good signal quality. And transmitting WiFi was ALWAYS working and didn't have anything to do with the resistor.
The only thing the resistor did change was the steepness of the curve for the module to sync the WiFi RECEPTION. The module was receiving everything, but it wasn't in sync with the board and therefore we had packet loss.

The WiFi RX / TX itself hasn't been changed by that resistor.