Bought a Windows Tablet - a few thoughts

[Klumpen]

Call me old fashioned but I still don't understand the point of tablets. It's the trade-off of everything, it's good at about nothing. It's fine for folks who don't want to use computers, i guess, but that's about it. I can see the point of a phone (or a Pandora-sized device) and a laptop, but anything in between...

I've bought mine as a comic book reader and it perfectly fits this purpose since you need an easily rotatable big screen for this.
In addition to that, it has proven to be a very handy electronic map thanks to Osmand (OpenStreetMaps-Android), because a big screen, easy scolling and a few gigs of space is all you need there.
Some games that are designed for a touch interface work pretty well too, although I didn't get it for those.

 

[Mr_Loon]

It is a shame that linux support for tablets & laptops is hampered so much by the difficulty of sourcing drivers, there is plenty of great hardware such as the Chuwi Hi 10 that would be highly capable linux PCs if driver support was there.

Guess the issue with Chinese devices is the lamentable lack of support & communication from official channels. Understandable with such slender margins & rapid product cycles I guess.

@ Klumpen : Thanks for the reminder, must have a go at getting Remix OS working on it, but a quick game or two of unreal tournament 1999 beckons, it runs like a dream as well

I still don't understand the point of tablets. It's the trade-off of everything, it's good at about nothing. It's fine for folks who don't want to use computers, i guess, but that's about it. I can see the point of a phone (or a Pandora-sized device) and a laptop, but anything in between...

What they are good for : Reading, Web Surfing, Media Playback, Portable Gaming, Value for money, Silent Operation. For things like the Chuwi Tablet in the OP with its good selection of ports + microSD slot, if you add a BT Keyboard or official dock then you in effect have a laptop. Attach a monitor, USB Keyboard & Mouse and you have a desktop system. Add in the wide support for Software & Hardware and it's a good set up for general computing. My mind still boggles that you can buy something like the Chuwi for £120-£150 makes me wonder what sort of a system will be available for this price in a few years.....

 

[ekianjo]

I've bought mine as a comic book reader and it perfectly fits this purpose since you need an easily rotatable big screen for this.
In addition to that, it has proven to be a very handy electronic map thanks to Osmand (OpenStreetMaps-Android), because a big screen, easy scolling and a few gigs of space is all you need there.

For the applications you mention, sure, a tablet can make sense. Although I would probably prefer a Kindle for comics/books than a tablet, because of the long battery life and the superior display.

As for maps, sure a tablet can work, but if you are moving around a phone is more practical as it can fit in your pocket, and carry as much memory as a tablet anyway.
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What they are good for : Reading, Web Surfing, Media Playback, Portable Gaming, Value for money, Silent Operation.

Just my two cents:
- reading : if you are talking about books a Kindle is way superior and will damage your eyes way less than a tablet.
- Web surfing. OK. I agree. But only surfing. When it comes to using it to write something on the web, it's shite and basically it becomes a trade-off because you cant read and communicate as well vs having a laptop. It's more asymetric.
- Media playback : I prefer a laptop since I dont have to hold the screen and I can also ensure the angle is exactly the way I want it too.
- Portable gaming: Again, what you can play on a laptop is far more diverse and superior than what you can play on a tablet.
- Value for Money: value is not just a matter of cost, it's a matter of how much you can do with it. A laptop can almost completely replace a desktop PC, but a tablet ? Certainly not. So it may be cheap but you are heavily restricted if you want a general computing device.
- silent operation: OK, but most modern laptops have either passive cooling with Intel Ms or do not overheat unless you are gaming anyway - noise is not so much an issue for me anymore.

 

[TrashyMG]

I take it when you say Kindle you mean the ones with the e-ink screen and not the fire series Kindles with just the regular LCD. I bought an e-ink Kindle with the money I got from selling my ASUS Transformer as that was my intended purpose was reading mostly as well.

 

[ekianjo]

yes, the e-ink Kindles.

 

[levi]

I don't think the Fire tablets are still Kindle branded, at least in my home country. Kindle == e-ink.

 

[edgex004]

For reading, I much prefer e-ink. I briefly owned a Boyue T62+ and I greatly enjoyed it, even though it was running Android. I returned it eventually and miss the reading experience. Nothing was wrong with it, but I had actually bought it for my wife and she found that non e-ink tablet worked better for reading her textbook that was provided in a large color pdf format that semester. The book was not even offered as an e-book since it did not translate well to the black and white screen.

Beyond that one textbook, the color tablet has seen little use, and she ended up going back to a old/cheap e-ink kindle for all other books since.

Once an e-ink tablet is released with the following features, I will definitely buy it:

1. Can run full Linux.
2. Can attach a keyboard.
3. Can use finger touch or stylus touch.
4. Has a backlit screen.

I've gone so far as to looking into building this using a raspberry pi, but getting the e-ink screen to play nicely and to do it with a reasonable sum of money is a big hurdle from what I can tell.

 

[Klumpen]

yes, the e-ink Kindles.

I use a Kindle for eBooks (mostly from Project Gutenberg), but I guess since you mentioned comics too, you meant this "Kindle Fire" LCD tablet. Why do you consider this to be better for comics than any standard Android tablet?

I can't stand reading a lot of text on LCD, it's e-Ink all the way for me there, but no use reading colored comics in black and white.
Are colored e-Ink displays available yet?

 

[lukey]

For reading, I much prefer e-ink. I briefly owned a Boyue T62+ and I greatly enjoyed it, even though it was running Android. I returned it eventually and miss the reading experience. Nothing was wrong with it, but I had actually bought it for my wife and she found that non e-ink tablet worked better for reading her textbook that was provided in a large color pdf format that semester. The book was not even offered as an e-book since it did not translate well to the black and white screen.

Beyond that one textbook, the color tablet has seen little use, and she ended up going back to a old/cheap e-ink kindle for all other books since.

Once an e-ink tablet is released with the following features, I will definitely buy it:

1. Can run full Linux.
2. Can attach a keyboard.
3. Can use finger touch or stylus touch.
4. Has a backlit screen.

I've gone so far as to looking into building this using a raspberry pi, but getting the e-ink screen to play nicely and to do it with a reasonable sum of money is a big hurdle from what I can tell.

I think the Kobo Glo HD is what you are looking for:
It has backlight(as the Name may tell), zForce Touchscreen, a USB-OTG Port for your Keyboard and it even has WiFi Builtin. The Internal Firmware is based on Linux and you can activate telnet access with an modified Update-File. Someone ported Debian over to it: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222123 . And one of the Best things: It boots off an internal MicroSD-Card(that is not accesible from the outside, but you can change it when you open the Device) so its unbrickable and you could put a 200Gb Card in there (Was allready successfully tested with the Original Firmware).

 

[edgex004]

I think the Kobo Glo HD is what you are looking for:
It has backlight(as the Name may tell), zForce Touchscreen, a USB-OTG Port for your Keyboard and it even has WiFi Builtin. The Internal Firmware is based on Linux and you can activate telnet access with an modified Update-File. Someone ported Debian over to it: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222123 . And one of the Best things: It boots off an internal MicroSD-Card(that is not accesible from the outside, but you can change it when you open the Device) so its unbrickable and you could put a 200Gb Card in there (Was allready successfully tested with the Original Firmware).

Nice, thanks! I looked at a few of the Kobo tablets before and can't remember why I eliminated them from my list. Maybe it was because I didn't think the touchscreen would allow for palm rejection? Honestly not sure, but I will give it another look. They definitely are one of the better quality e-readers, and if I can get a stable Debian build running it could be exactly what I've been hoping for.

 

[ekianjo]

I use a Kindle for eBooks (mostly from Project Gutenberg), but I guess since you mentioned comics too, you meant this "Kindle Fire" LCD tablet. Why do you consider this to be better for comics than any standard Android tablet?

I can't stand reading a lot of text on LCD, it's e-Ink all the way for me there, but no use reading colored comics in black and white.
Are colored e-Ink displays available yet?

comics in japan are black and white so i was still referring to e ink kindles.

 

[TrashyMG]

Well I bought a colored Graphic novel a while ago on amazon, the grey scale dithering on the kindle is pretty good, I almost think it looks better than when it's displayed in color.

 

[rygD]

I still use an ancient Sony ebook reader for text and such (that is a lie, I usually stick with dead trees). I can understand wanting a color display for some comics or other things with colors. I read some comics on my laptops and such, however this is a very minor use. I may consider an upgrade when color e-ink displays are plentiful and cheap. Edit, forgot to add this: Although it probably wouldn't be great for some comics, my reader has always been fine for me for books and such that have colors and pics, even with the primitive display.

 

[ekianjo]

1. Can run full Linux.
2. Can attach a keyboard.
3. Can use finger touch or stylus touch.
4. Has a backlit screen.

The Kindle paper white with debian :

 

[Exophase]

I asked about this on another thread too, but is there any way you can test virtualization of a Linux distro? I know you said earlier to beware of the Linux or nothing sort of people, but I'm really looking at this from someone interested in getting a mobile device for both Windows and Linux (hopefully GPD Win if it ends up being any good)

Just want to see if this alleviates the hardware problems and see what you can get in terms of audio, wifi (probably over an ethernet device), Bluetooth, USB, and any level of 3D acceleration.

I'd personally prefer to to be Linux Mint w/MATE but anything should work. Not sure about actual VM software to use; I've only used VirtualBox but I hear Xen and KVM are faster.

 

[Mr_Loon]

... is there any way you can test virtualization of a Linux distro? I know you said earlier to beware of the Linux or nothing sort of people, but I'm really looking at this from someone interested in getting a mobile device for both Windows and Linux...

That doesn't sound like 'Linux or Nothing' to me so we're all good there

I'd personally prefer to to be Linux Mint w/MATE but anything should work.

Is this the one : Linux Mint 17.3 "Rosa" - MATE (64-bit)

Should be able to have a look later in the week, I'll post how it goes in this thread.

 

[Alperoot]

Should be able to have a look later in the week, I'll post how it goes in this thread.

It would be very good. That could make it my favourite tablet of all time ^^

 

[Exophase]

That doesn't sound like 'Linux or Nothing' to me so we're all good there

Is this the one : Linux Mint 17.3 "Rosa" - MATE (64-bit)

Should be able to have a look later in the week, I'll post how it goes in this thread.

Sounds good, thanks!

 

[skeezix]

I actually really like the Windows ("pro" style, real x86) tablets. For one, you can install Linux onto them... but all that aside, I actually do not much like _apps_ much (and as someone who pioneered mobile apps, I have a leg to stand on there (now get off my lawn). I like serious get shit done stuff, none of this fluffy light crapware that 99% of apps are. I actually use a Bluetooth mouse and do CAD work on my little tablet .. had an 8" one until kids killed it after a few years, so now have a Surface 3 (non-Pro because $$..) ..Android rubs me the wrong way, as does iOS, though I do use an iOS phone. (After years of being the guy that cracked everything, rewriting the firmware on his microwave oven, I finally gave in and just got it as a phone and don't bother keeping up the fight over baseband with Apple So, a Windows tablet will spy on you, and have MS shoving its annoyances down your throat as if its their hardware, but at least it can run some 'real applications'. You can fire up Steam on there and stream to/from, or run VLC, X2Go, etc and so on. Very handy. (But the windows 10 stuff is really getting annoying.. a fine OS from a use case perspective, but daaaaaamn.)*

The Surface Pro's and such are expensive as hell, but pretty handy.

So, as in all things.. a default stance is fine (OSS for life, etc), but you have to work out your use-cases and choose there. If you like your new windows tablet, great, that's the best place to be.

Windows 10 annoyance that gets me riled up: When you change all the registry values/etc to turn off the telemetry and spyware, and they push down a thing to undo that, it tells you they think they own it and can do what they like. Then when they push down Win 10 updates .. well, my old 8" tablet had just enough storage to hold the win10 update, which they kept shoving down over and over. They filled the storage, and then it didn't have any space to install the update, or anything else. I had to really get barbaric to turn that off. Gods!

So.. choose crappy apps, or crappy apps and Apple, or no apps but the devil you know applications with the devil and his whip... rough choice

 

[Mr_Loon]

Win 10 is a strange one, it's the first windows I've used where I don't fully feel like the owner, it's just a few things like skeezix says but it does make a psychological difference. TBH I've not done much digging yet and hope someone will fix this soon.

Then when they push down Win 10 updates .. well, my old 8" tablet had just enough storage to hold the win10 update, which they kept shoving down over and over. They filled the storage, and then it didn't have any space to install the update, or anything else. I had to really get barbaric to turn that off. Gods!

FWIW If you'e using wifi then you can delay updates by selecting a metered connection (in Win 10).

I actually really like the Windows ("pro" style, real x86) tablets.

Me too, combined with a tablet holder they are also great in terms of ergonomics. The other thing that's floated my boat is the hardware support.