Release Beaver


mcobit

Advanced Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
6,909
As StreaK doesn't want to put his pnds into the repo, I wanted to port this nice texteditor again.


beaver3.png



This pnd is not writing to the nand, as the g_get_home_dir() functions are all replaced to point to the appdatadirectory.


Get it from the repo:


http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=beaver-beaver-6051
 
Thanks!, Personally I don't want to join Facebook just to download PNDs, I'm not sure what the big deal with Facebook and Streak is..
 
Thanks!, Personally I don't want to join Facebook just to download PNDs, I'm not sure what the big deal with Facebook and Streak is..
You don't have to. Yesterday the firewall was down for a coupley of hours (yeah, unfiltered internet), so i had a chance to test it - usually I can't access facebook, because it is blocked by a firewall. Just open the link in streaks posts, on his facebook page there is some sort of navigation on the left. Klick on the pinboard link (the one with the qoutations marks in an speech bubble) and you are good to go. Well, almost, you still have to dig through all the entrys.


Thanks to mcobit for bringing this fine piece of software to the repo !!
 
Thanks!, Personally I don't want to join Facebook just to download PNDs, I'm not sure what the big deal with Facebook and Streak is..
You don't have to. Yesterday the firewall was down for a coupley of hours (yeah, unfiltered internet), so i had a chance to test it - usually I can't access facebook, because it is blocked by a firewall. Just open the link in streaks posts, on his facebook page there is some sort of navigation on the left. Klick on the pinboard link (the one with the qoutations marks in an speech bubble) and you are good to go. Well, almost, you still have to dig through all the entrys.


Thanks to mcobit for bringing this fine piece of software to the repo !!


Well even so I still don't like Facebook.
 
The deal is not with StreaK and facebook, but with StreaK and not-the-Repo. Before, StreaK put his stuff on the Repo. After some quality concerns were raised, particularily about a bunch of apps needlessly writing to the NAND, there started a discussion about the wisdom of putting not-quite-polished-enough apps on the repo. Expressions like "Sloppy quickports" and accusations of just wanting to fill up the recent uploads-list were bandied about (the latter being a lot less justified than the former, IMO). StreaK responded by being deeply hurt over such hard words, and promptly withdrew (almost) all his work from the Repo, along the lines of "Well, if it isn't wanted here, I shan't be outstaying my welcome". StreaKs side of it is along the lines of:


* It is better with many rough apps than a few polished ones


* He doesn't want to get burdened with endless polishing - He's a love them and leave them guy.


* A little NAND writing never hurt anyone.


So, since people in the abovementioned thread were critical if uploading "beta-quality apps" to the repo, he now labels every release he does as BETA, has stated that he don't want any of his pnds on the repo as long as they are in a beta state, and at the same time has stated that he never intends to improve any of his ports to a release status. Facebook, I've gathered, is more of a way to actually get some sort of platform for feedback and announcement, since he can't use those provided by the repo.


This is all as my recollection of it all. I might be wrong. So sue me.
 
This pnd is not writing to the nand, as the g_get_home_dir() functions are all replaced to point to the appdatadirectory.

He's still doing that, is he? I downloaded QupZilla the other day, but haven't tried it yet. Then I saw the report that someone tried it and failed to save any bookmarks. May I guess that it attempted to write bookmarks to $HOME, but was hindered by HF6? *sighs* *deletes pnd*
 
I prefer Quality over quantity so it is a wise decission not to put that many "quick ports" to the Repo. Avoiding writing to the NAND, working and tested releases and some correct PXML should be the minimal standard for a app in the repo. :)
 
What I don't understand is, that you start the app, see that there is a new folder in HOME and then grep for the place in the source this folder is created, then change that place to appdata.


Is this asked too much? Is it that hard?


I know it is quite annoying to find this stuff for gtk and gnomeapps, as they don't use the HOME variable, but it is not endless polishing doing this.


I also know and told him, that qt handles some cachedir etc. With qtinternal functions, that simply have to be changed, to prevent stuff writing to nand...


But it is not my intention to moan about that. If I find a nice app Streak ported and can improve it, I'll just recompile it. Thats the way opensource works anyways. If somebody doesn't want to improve something, do it yourself. ;)


For facebook: I don't like it and I don't think it is a good distributionplatform for software. The repo is MADE for this. But well, everybody can do what he wants. If it is only about the "likes" and reputation, well thats ok.


Some time ago, I was under the impression, that quantity is better than quality, too. But that changed rapidly. If someone reports an issue, I try to solve it with my limited codingskills. if I can't, I try to get help and move on to the next pnd, when there are no big complains anymore.


Correct PXML is necessary for the repo to work, so I try to be as close to the spec as I can and the repo accepts.
 
This pnd is not writing to the nand, as the g_get_home_dir() functions are all replaced to point to the appdatadirectory.

He's still doing that, is he? I downloaded QupZilla the other day, but haven't tried it yet. Then I saw the report that someone tried it and failed to save any bookmarks. May I guess that it attempted to write bookmarks to $HOME, but was hindered by HF6? *sighs* *deletes pnd*

Nope, it is not releated with writing to nand..
 
.. If I find a nice app Streak ported and can improve it, I'll just recompile it. Thats the way opensource works anyways. If somebody doesn't want to improve something, do it yourself. ;)

Thats the spirit.. its easy to understand.


Im also really surprised that nobody mention yet, that only loading an OS from NAND also wearing it. If there's a concenrs about writing to NAND why the hell, people using OS from NAND then? Just buy 2GB SD card reload os on CARD and start using it. Problems solved. And i mean ALL NAND RELEATED PROBLEMS solved. NAND will be totally safe and a lot less weared out that using OS from NAND [even if used only in readonly mode]. There will not be problems any kind.


BTW. Im also find Sandisk Extreme SD 2GB faster than NAND itself. What it means: faster loading times / faster OS loading times / smoother play...
 
That is not true, writing and rewriting of flashmemory wears it.


Reading doesn't.


Edit: Link for clarification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Memory_wear

So loading routine of Angstrom OS from NAND is completely set as ReadOnly?


Angstrom is not writing anything on nand while loading and using OS on 100%?


BTW:


Theres something like "read disturb" error which will drive to data loss on NAND when only reading. And we know that Angstrom reads A LOT.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Read_disturb
 
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That is not the point. Angstrom writes stuff to NAND, I am sure of it, but the idea is that the NAND is reserved for the OS.


It is just good style to prevent for example webbrowsers to write their cache (with a lot of write and rewritecycles) to the nand, as this will wear it much quicker, than the usual OS usage.


On some devices, the NAND is in fact readonly to prevent wearing, but on Pandora, there should not be such a restriction.


Edit: Also it is not good to delete an app and have its remainings left in the homefolder or anywhere else on the nand, as they will fill it up quickly.


The best case scenario would be, that you delete the pnd and its appdatafolder from the sdcard and there is nothing left on the device.


It can be quite tricky at times to find all configuration, especially of qt and gtk2 programs on the nand, and delete this manually.
 
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Thats why i said , that the best solutin to not to wear out NAND is to use OS from SD Card. There's no better way to prevent wearing NAND out.
 
That might be true, but we have a nand chip, so why not use it. Also the nandsystem serves as the groundsystem. How would you explain to the normal user, how to setup a linux system on their homepc to an sdcard before they can use the device?


Why do such devices have nand storage at all, if this is so much better to have the system on sd?


Not this aesy for the people, who have never done that. Flashing an os from sd to nand is straight forward even for not so experienced users.


Also sdcards can get corrupted quite easily, then it is good to have an os on the nand.


Look at this scenario:


Would you buy a new router, that has an sdcardslot and in order to use it, you have to download or install the system to sd, then put the sd into the router and boot it up?


Wouldn't you just rather buy a router, that has its system on the nand and boots up and works out of the box?


Edit: BTW I really enjoy such constructive discussions, there should be more of them ;)


Edit2: Another question is: Would you buy a pc with out a harddrive to boot from?
 
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Look at this scenario:


Would you buy a new router, that has an sdcardslot and in order to use it, you have to download or install the system to sd, then put the sd into the router and boot it up?


Wouldn't you just rather buy a router, that has its system on the nand and boots up and works out of the box?

Its the matter of choice. I didnt buy pandora to show how big elite Im now in :) . . I bought it because i wanted to replicate all my desktop linux apps to OP and start using it [outside my flat] [thats why i ported vacuumim / lxtask and many more]. Im not purist. Im an user, i want to use stuff. My own apps are more polished, but the stuff i want to use [after porting / compiling] just dont need to be excellent ported, since i already switched my OS to SD card and i dont care about NAND writtings anymore. This is the best way, really to save NAND.


There's a SD Card OS installer in PND format, why regular user dont try to use it only once? it's easy to install.


I know many of my stuff isnt even checked by users, so i have no real motiviation to fix anything app releated.


There are the projects that i already spend weeks like DosBox EX / Cli Love and [next] UAE EX, and im trying to really polish'em, but for some of other ported apps i dont really care, if they write to OS or not. They're compiled especially for me, but all in all i released em to community via FaceBook as beta.


EDIT:

Edit2: Another question is: Would you buy a pc with out a harddrive to boot from?

Some pandora's [cripled] are shipped without wi-fi? Some people already bought it.. its releated to question..
 
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Yeah, that is completely fine for YOU.


But if you release your apps for the normal user, there need to be a little more thought going into this imho.


It is fine, if you say: You don't like it, don't use it, but your forumposts don't make clear, that the stuff is rushed and it is not taken care of, how it handles nandwrites etc.


Maybe you should write something like:


"This app is a recompile without any changes to the source, so it could do bad things right now... I won't polish this any further, so don't get on my nerves, if it writes to nand, cause nothing will make me fix this."


I think it is great how you polish stuff, like CLI-love and actually take feedback into it. That is how every app should be handeled in my opinion.


BTW, yes, there is a PND-SD-installer, but how to use it when there is no system on the NAND, think about that...
 
Yeah, that is completely fine for YOU.


But if you release your apps for the normal user, there need to be a little more thought going into this imho.


It is fine, if you say: You don't like it, don't use it, but your forumposts don't make clear, that the stuff is rushed and it is not taken care of, how it handles nandwrites etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta


BETA clearly states what is it. I dont need to add anything more, since BETA software is not FINAL nor RELEASE.


Some of You will use BETA apps, some dont. It will not change much if i write "straight-recompilation", thats why BETA tag is the best way to inform that this software is in .. BETA Shape :)


They're also in correct category on forum:


Beta testing - Try your apps in here before uploading to Pandora apps.
 
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Well, BETA implies, that you want to work torwards a RELEASE.


You shouldn't call it BETA, if you don't want to touch it ever again. The Betastate is part of a releasecycle.


The better description for stuff you are doing would be "unfinished port" or something like this.


Well, do whatever you want :)


I think we both made our statements clear and before we argue about definitions of words, we should stop here.


If others have opinions on this, feel free to write in here, but as said, for me it is like I said in the first post:


With your permission I will polish up some apps, that I find uselful for me and others and release them in a new pnd in the repo, if you don't bother to do so.


If everyone could agree with that, everyone should be happy.


I won't tell you to upload stuff to the repo anymore, as I have a better insight about what your intentions are.


Edit: I do try my apps in the betasection, if they are somewhat buggy or I want others to test them first, but stuff I did before, like GNUrobbo is safe to put into the news, as I know it is working.A


Also apps like beaver were in the Betasection from you, so I had a look at what was still wrong with it (writing config to nand) and fixed it. So why should I put that in beta anymore? Else it works great and it has no betastatus from the original authors.


If stuff is BETA, I mark it in the PXML for everyone to see, when they download with repo.
 
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If others have opinions on this, feel free to write in here, but as said, for me it is like I said in the first post:


With your permission I will polish up some apps, that I find uselful for me and others and release them in a new pnd in the repo, if you don't bother to do so.

Thats fine for me. I dont really have the time to fix everything [i released too much apps]. Some apps needs to fix some not. Thanks to You i'll know the "natural selection" of apps that really should be fixed [because will be used actually by somebody..], since i dont have enaugh information about usage* of my apps from community, and information like "i dont want to use Your app because it is on FaceBook" dont help me much.


*-real usage, not number of downloads


Edit:


BTW. If somebody bothers too much about writing to NAND , repo should include information like "Tested by community" or "no f*g nand writings - - approved"


like button here [just created..] :)


funkynand.png
 
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