Apparently we didn't need a keyboard on the Pandora


second exodous

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I hate keyboards, they restrict mobility, cause carpal tunnel syndrome, and are ill suited for smaller devices. I am always looking for alternatives to keybaords but the problems are they are usually expensive, DIY projects beyond my scope or just don't work well(I own an Alphagirp :( ).


This one looks like it might be by far the cheapest alternative keyboard I've seen just because it uses any standard game controller and will work on any open handheld that has enough buttons. I haven't tried it, I'd like to find an open source solution to this which I'm sure there is one out there, I've only been looking for a few minutes.


So anyone else use an alternate keyboard of any kind?
 
Ah crap, I just realized that it looks like I don't like the keyboard on the Pandora, but it is one of the reasons I'm getting it. I LIKE the keyboard on the Pandora I just thought it was cool that someone was taking a normal PSX type controller and using it for a keyboard.


Once again I LIKE THE PANDORA KEYBOARD, err I think I will when I get it, I just thought I'd post this for all those people that don't like to thumb type. A lot of people were complaining that the Pandora had a keyboard.
 
Once again I LIKE THE PANDORA KEYBOARD, err I think I will when I get it
I wasn't sure I would like such a small keyboard (I usually like them large with larges buttons).


It surprising how thumb typing on it feel good and fast. It is even suited for small hack on the go ( not too long as all the symbols need combo, but still)
 
every single cell phone ive owned has has a physical keyboard, so this whole thumb typing thing on pandora will be a breeze for me, though i dont like those phone keyboards where the letters are vertically lined up and the space bar is between V and B. just plain dumb and takes forever getting used to
 
I've gotten so used to the Pandora keyboard that I keep twitching my left pointer finger every time I need an upper case letter :P
 
I hate keyboards, they restrict mobility, cause carpal tunnel syndrome, and are ill suited for smaller devices. I am always looking for alternatives to keybaords but the problems are they are usually expensive, DIY projects beyond my scope or just don't work well(I own an Alphagirp :( ).


This one looks like it might be by far the cheapest alternative keyboard I've seen just because it uses any standard game controller and will work on any open handheld that has enough buttons. I haven't tried it, I'd like to find an open source solution to this which I'm sure there is one out there, I've only been looking for a few minutes.


So anyone else use an alternate keyboard of any kind?

I had myself some health problems with excessive typing time (tendinitis or epicondylitis or elbow pain, whatever you call).


I don't have them anymore cause i think figured out why typing is bad for your hands, and for me is because you are standing still, I mean, you are there in the computer, typing for hours and your arms stand still, creating a lot of tension to the ligaments and tiny muscles so they are over working. I tried some ergnomic alternatives to eliminate tension (I use colemak layout when coding and at home most of the time) chair position, and arms position, all that stuff. For my experience, even the most ergnomic position can only delay the time when your forearms/hands will feel overworked. When I realized that, i figured that my hands had to be stronger and more resistant if i wanted to remain typing for excessive hours, so I began to exercise my hands with hand gripper exercises and other exercises performed by rock-climbers, who also suffer from major hand/forearm injuries. And this was how I was cured...


The bottom line is, IMHO, typing is stressful for the hands because we always do it for excessive periods and , no matter what we do, we can only delay that time whe the stress will be harmful.


I use colemak but after I realized that, I just remain using it because I liked. But, of course I would like everybody in the world not to use qwerty, because the arrangements of the keyboard didn't have anything to do with ergnonomics, i heard somewhere that the guy that inventend the typewriter, just wanted to arrange the keys in a way that you could type the word "typewriter" only using the upper key row "qwertyuiop". I don't see a solution for this on pandora's case, nobody is going to learn another keyboard if they're just want to sit back and play games on pandora, that's not possible.


I suggest you google something about grip trainning and other foream exercises and don't waste your peace-of-mind anymore with how not satisfying mass-production keyboards are arranged.
 
When I realized that, i figured that my hands had to be stronger and more resistant if i wanted to remain typing for excessive hours, so I began to exercise my hands with hand gripper exercises and other exercises performed by rock-climbers, who also suffer from major hand/forearm injuries. And this was how I was cured...
This. Stronger hands do indeed seem to prevent such fatigue. (Indeed, I've never suffered from pains from typing, myself. :P )

But, of course I would like everybody in the world not to use qwerty, because the arrangements of the keyboard didn't have anything to do with ergnonomics, i heard somewhere that the guy that inventend the typewriter, just wanted to arrange the keys in a way that you could type the word "typewriter" only using the upper key row "qwertyuiop".
Actually, I gather that the "QWE.TY" layout, as created by the inventor of the typewriter, was a result of at least six years of studying bigrams whilst trying to create the best layout for it - which to my mind has everything to do with ergonomics, as it prevents having to reach too far to use most common combinations (contrary to the myths, QWERTY was designed for writing, so it had to be ergonomical). You are right, though, that it became "QWERTY" in order to be able to write "Typewriter" with the top row alone, but this was done by Remington after it was sold to them in order to assist in marketing it, and it was only a swap of the "R" and the ".".


Doing a lot of writing, I'll be sticking with QWERTY, myself. :P


And somewhat more on-topic, having read the linked page, I honestly can't imagine using a gamepad in place of a keyboard... :blink:
 
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I hate keyboards, they restrict mobility, cause carpal tunnel syndrome, and are ill suited for smaller devices. I am always looking for alternatives to keybaords but the problems are they are usually expensive, DIY projects beyond my scope or just don't work well(I own an Alphagirp :( ).


This one looks like it might be by far the cheapest alternative keyboard I've seen just because it uses any standard game controller and will work on any open handheld that has enough buttons. I haven't tried it, I'd like to find an open source solution to this which I'm sure there is one out there, I've only been looking for a few minutes.


So anyone else use an alternate keyboard of any kind?

I bought an "AlphaGrips" (now they call it "iGrips": http://www.alphagrips.com/) a couple of years ago for this same purpose, but I never really used it. If you want a used one, let me know!


My main purpose was because I so often use CTRL-C and CTRL-V in my work, and standard keyboards suck for this and are too big to fit 2 of them on my desk at a time. Instead, I now have on my desk 2 of the "Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite 2", which use a UNIX-style keyboard with the CTRL key where the CAPS LOCK key is on standard computer keyboards. And it has a smaller footprint since it gets rid of the stupid keypad. http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/haphackeylit1.html


To those doing hand exercises, please include a link to your favorites.
 
I bought an "AlphaGrips" (now they call it "iGrips": http://www.alphagrips.com/) a couple of years ago for this same purpose, but I never really used it. If you want a used one, let me know!


My main purpose was because I so often use CTRL-C and CTRL-V in my work, and standard keyboards suck for this and are too big to fit 2 of them on my desk at a time. Instead, I now have on my desk 2 of the "Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite 2", which use a UNIX-style keyboard with the CTRL key where the CAPS LOCK key is on standard computer keyboards. And it has a smaller footprint since it gets rid of the stupid keypad. http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/haphackeylit1.html


To those doing hand exercises, please include a link to your favorites.

Just need a bigger desk, I got two of these suckers on my desk. Cadillacs of keyboards, No hand cramps or wrist pains with these suckers.. Well at least for me.


ModelM%201.jpg



Also can be used for self defence, Fighting Terror.
 
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Just need a bigger desk, I got two of these suckers on my desk. Cadillacs of keyboards, No hand cramps or wrist pains with these suckers.. Well at least for me.


ModelM%201.jpg



Also can be used for self defence, Fighting Terror.

hehe, also got one of those... it's really the best ever keyboard... well not when transporting it for a lan party or when your wife try to sleep near...
 
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Just need a bigger desk, I got two of these suckers on my desk. Cadillacs of keyboards, No hand cramps or wrist pains with these suckers.. Well at least for me.


<model-m picture>


Also can be used for self defence, Fighting Terror.
Best keyboard ever. Typing on one right now.
 
Actually, I gather that the "QWE.TY" layout, as created by the inventor of the typewriter, was a result of at least six years of studying bigrams whilst trying to create the best layout for it - which to my mind has everything to do with ergonomics, as it prevents having to reach too far to use most common combinations (contrary to the myths, QWERTY was designed for writing, so it had to be ergonomical). You are right, though, that it became "QWERTY" in order to be able to write "Typewriter" with the top row alone, but this was done by Remington after it was sold to them in order to assist in marketing it, and it was only a swap of the "R" and the ".".

Prometheus, I invite you to use Colemak Layout.


Let's face it. Whatever studies Typewrite guy did, he wasn't taking in account a computer keyboard, I think we both agree that a computer keyboard is NOT the same of a typewriter. Ask anyone older if they knew someone that suffered from RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) for working on a typewriter and they will say that is was very rare or that they never heard of it. Nowadays were are always talking about ergnomics and such. My guess is because on a typewriter you use much more movement so a lot of muscles help your hands so there's not so much strain as in a computer.


There's Dvorak layout too, but i never tried, colemak is like a mid-term between dvorak and qwerty, here it is:


Colemak_fingers.png



You can see the capslock was substituted by backspace, and just that alone is marvellous for efficiency on typing.


Also, some keys are in the same place of QWERTY, you still use Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V and punctuations are very much alike.


Colemak is also great for international languages, I in fact use it for writing in portuguese very easily, in portuguese we use a lot of accents like çáãóíõéàú


If you try it you will see it, trust me, it might be steep to make it as natural as the keyboard you've been using your whole life.


but is definitely worth it.


Read more about it: http://colemak.com/FAQ
 
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Prometheus, I invite you to use Colemak Layout.


Let's face it. Whatever studies Typewrite guy did, he wasn't taking in account a computer keyboard, I think we both agree that a computer keyboard is NOT the same of a typewriter. Ask anyone older if they knew someone that suffered from RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) for working on a typewriter and they will say that is was very rare or that they never heard of it. Nowadays were are always talking about ergnomics and such. My guess is because on a typewriter you use much more movement so a lot of muscles help your hands so there's not so much strain as in a computer.
I use a laptop, always, personally, and have never suffered from any RSIs at all (there seems to be plenty of movement in my typing, but my hands are quite small, so perhaps this helps me :P ). I find QWERTY to be perfectly ergonomical, so I simply have no reason to use a different layout. :P

You can see the capslock was substituted by backspace, and just that alone is marvellous for efficiency on typing.
That seems counter-intuitive to me, as my left hand is not my dominant hand. I have yet to meet anyone who can type as fast as I can, so I don't think I have much need for further efficiency. :)

Colemak is also great for international languages, I in fact use it for writing in portuguese very easily, in portuguese we use a lot of accents like çáãóíõéàú
I'm currently learning Japanese, and a QWERTY keyboard is, in my experience so far, much more suited to that. For Japanese (at least at the level I'm at so far!), you tend to input romaji corresponding to the sounds of the kana - this is usually pairs of letters, which is what QWERTY was designed for in the first place.

If you try it you will see it, trust me, it might be steep to make it as natural as the keyboard you've been using your whole life.


but is definitely worth it.
Can I ask why it's worth it, please? I'm not actually seeing any convincing reasons - it sounds as though I would end up wasting a lot of time (and lose an awful lot of productivity), that I could be using to actually get work done which requires my keyboard, whilst getting no actual benefit from using this (or any other) layout. :P
 
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Can I ask why it's worth it, please? I'm not actually seeing any convincing reasons - it sounds as though I would end up wasting a lot of time (and lose an awful lot of productivity), that I could be using to actually get work done which requires my keyboard, whilst getting no actual benefit from using this (or any other) layout. :P

From the Official Colemak FAQ:

Colemak FAQ said:
What's wrong with the QWERTY layout?


* It places very rare letters in the best positions, so your fingers have to move a lot more.


* It suffers from a high same finger ratio that slows down typing and increases strain.


* It allows for very long sequences of letters with the same hand (e.g. "sweaterdresses")


* It was designed to prevent the keys from sticking, without any consideration to ergonomic or efficiency aspects.


* It was designed so the word "typewriter" could be typed on the top row to ease demonstrations.


* It suffers from an extremely high ratio of home-row-jumping sequences (e.g. "minimum")


Is there any scientific research that shows that Colemak is better?


According to carpalx, which is the most extensive research on keyboard layouts done so far, Colemak wins over Dvorak and QWERTY in all different typing effort models. Note that the default scoring model used by carpalx is somewhat subjective, but configurable. Moreover, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence on the Colemak forum, and on the web.


Who should learn Colemak?


* People that suffer from Repetitive strain injury (RSI), or Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS).


* Anyone that experienced pain or discomfort while typing.


* Writers, programmers or anyone who wishes to type as fast as they think, and slower typing might result in a loss of their train of thought.


* Journalists, bloggers or anyone that needs to type in time-critical situations.


* Students that take notes with laptops during lectures.


* Anyone's that interested in lifehacks or doing things more efficiently.


* People that often use instant messaging and chat software.


* Anyone who spends over 10 hours per week at the keyboard.

I'm not trying to sell anything I'm just pointing out, just sharing, I'm happy I have changed for colemak, you are invited to try, if you want it, ant thats all. best luck to you all.


I have some interest in learning japanese too, can I learn by myself? And for free? where do I start?
 
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I notice that the FAQ perpetuates some of the myths about QWERTY, which to be honest doesn't give me much confidence (the keys sticking one really jumps out at me - that's nothing to do with the letter layout at all, it's only to do with the fact that the keys aren't vertically aligned - which no other layout is, either :P the aforementioned "designed to spell typewriter" and "no consideration for ergonomics" ones are, too, and so on).


It's interesting that it suggests Colemak as a means to type as fast as you think - I can already do that, and I quite often exceed the speed of my train of thought (several of the other notes also apply to me, such as typing in a time-critical fashion, having to do a lot of keyboard use, and so on), so whilst I thank you for the recommendation and a very interesting discussion I guess this one isn't for me. Since I hadn't heard of Colemak before, now I'll be able to point it out to folks who it would suit, though. :)


My apologies for the off-topicness, by the way. :P
 
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Just need a bigger desk, I got two of these suckers on my desk. Cadillacs of keyboards, No hand cramps or wrist pains with these suckers.. Well at least for me.


ModelM%201.jpg



Also can be used for self defence, Fighting Terror.
Nice! I like those, and had a few of them laying around since I used to contract at IBM.


My desk is large enough already. It is this plus another shelf on top and some extensions: http://www.anthro.com/computer-furniture.aspx?desk=fit-console


My main complaint is more of the placement of the CTRL key than anything. Since I do a lot of consulting and end up working in customer's labs, I would love it if I could make Windows map the CAPS LOCK key to CTRL or something like that. But I don't think I can. (Well, my co-workers would probably beat me senseless if I did and forgot to map it back.)
 
I never learned to touchtype but I've been typing for so long that I rarely need to look at the keyboard when I type. Whether that helps reduce or increase stress or not I don't know - my hands are a lot more mobile, so they get a lot more exercise though perhaps it's not as repetitive since the same letter gets hit with different fingers depending on where my hand is in relation to it at the time I need to hit it.


I remember seeing adverts for this back in the day. I was quite tempted, but they weren't that cheap. I'm still intrigued by the idea of a chorded keyboard, but I've yet to find one that looks as well thought through as the microwriter was. Mind you, you can see that it's quite a task to make an ergonomic one especially small.
 
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when your wife try to sleep near...
This is the only reason why I had to change my keyboard at home. The new one while making no noise while using it (funnily enough, the mouse that came with it is noisy as hell) but is pain to use (only 2 keys at a times, so bye bye awesome combo... But at the same times sometime register 2 press when there is only one...)
 
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