Anyone Tried The Vista Public Beta?

[WarmFluffyUK]

There is also a factor that many emerging markets (such as China or India) will be far more price sensitive than we are in the west. Then also it's worth keeping in a mind that such hardware requirements of Vista will impose higher everall powerconsumption of a computer. Multiply those extra watts by tens milions of machines and it's stopping being funny.

Did you not know that Microsoft are cornering the low end of the market and have released a cut down version of XP specifically designed for 3rd world countries. It runs on a very low end PC and if my memory serves me correctly will only allow 3 apps to run at the same time.

Microsoft cooperated with a lot of people in these countries to come up with a viable cheap product. Some people out there have never even used a mouse before. I think Microsoft are doing more than we realise.

 

[deadlychicken22]

Well, the way you put it makes it sound like Microsoft is trying to be nice. However, this is not the case. They are a business and have no feelings (the individual workers may, but the company as a whole doesn't). The goal of the company is to make as much money as possible. They realized that there are a lot of people who can't afford their normal prices, so they cut down the prices in poor countries so that their product will still sell.

I read a couple articles on this (I might have to go find them again). Basically, the people with computers in these poor countries were using linux because it was *gasp* FREE. Microsoft didn't like this free competition, so they offered their operating system at prices much lower than it would ever appear in more prosperous countries. However, many (I am inclined to say most, but I don't want to say that without a link to back it up) of the people still went with linux. They had an interview with some of them and they basically said "Why should I pay for something I can get for free?" and they also said that they found linux EASIER to use :huh: (maybe it is when you've never used a computer before . . . maybe we just think windows is easier because it is what we are used to . . .).

 

[Aaaaaaaa]

Even though they are a business, they dont HAVE to go the extra mile to get just 1 small part of the giant wroldwide market. They wouldn't exactly go bankkrupt with out it. I reckon it sounds like theyre doing it out fo the goodness of their hearts.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

Well, the way you put it makes it sound like Microsoft is trying to be nice. However, this is not the case. They are a business and have no feelings (the individual workers may, but the company as a whole doesn't). The goal of the company is to make as much money as possible. They realized that there are a lot of people who can't afford their normal prices, so they cut down the prices in poor countries so that their product will still sell.

I read a couple articles on this (I might have to go find them again). Basically, the people with computers in these poor countries were using linux because it was *gasp* FREE. Microsoft didn't like this free competition, so they offered their operating system at prices much lower than it would ever appear in more prosperous countries. However, many (I am inclined to say most, but I don't want to say that without a link to back it up) of the people still went with linux. They had an interview with some of them and they basically said "Why should I pay for something I can get for free?" and they also said that they found linux EASIER to use :huh: (maybe it is when you've never used a computer before . . . maybe we just think windows is easier because it is what we are used to . . .).

What are you nuts, the people in these countries have never seen a computer before. not even used a mouse, and you're saying they were using linux. Erk I think not.

They did a trial by GIVING a families free PCs with this version of XP on, and they soon realised they needed instructions on using a mouse, so that was built into the os.

I have no idea whare you got your information from....

 

[Radek]

Even though they are a business, they dont HAVE to go the extra mile to get just 1 small part of the giant wroldwide market. They wouldn't exactly go bankkrupt with out it. I reckon it sounds like theyre doing it out fo the goodness of their hearts.

No... it's a premptive move to get some hold on a possible huge future market.

It might looks like a "goodness" but it's not the reason thought some nice PR like this is for sure welcome by company execs.

What are you nuts, the people in these countries have never seen a computer before. not even used a mouse, and you're saying they were using linux. Erk I think not.

They did a trial by GIVING a families free PCs with this version of XP on, and they soon realised they needed instructions on using a mouse, so that was built into the os.

I have no idea whare you got your information from....

As a child I hadn't been having any problem using mouseless, guiless 8-bit microcomputers. Perhaps the whole GUI thing is vastly overrated? Keep in a mind that DOS could dominate systems what had a GUI already (Atari ST, Amiga, Apple).

And in what sense Windows GUI is so much better than say the ones what we could find in NextStep, BeOS, Geos, GEM and recently in Gnome and KDE?

Widgets concepts are everywhere the same. It's matter only of being used to something and experience. You can not dismiss that for a newcomer it might be not be harder to use the Linux.

People weren't having any problems using DOS (what is just a crap compared to Linux in every aspect) so why they should have with Linux?

And also those newcomer are hungry for knowledge and WILLING to learn. What oses offers better enviroment for that? Heh - is in this crippled poor man Windows edition a C compiler for an example so someone could start to learn programming?
Or robust interpreted language like the Python?
Or advanced editors like Emacs or Vim?
Or very usefull tools like awk, sed or grep?

No? Oh my...

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

No... it's a premptive move to get some hold on a possible huge future market.

It might looks like a "goodness" but it's not the reason thought some nice PR like this is for sure welcome by company execs.

Well yes you may be right, give them a product and eventually when the economy becomes viable, start charging for upgrades and bring tem into our world.

Er our world eh, YOU, yes you reading this, is part of that. Would you like a faster PC, yes of course you would. Go figure.

Edit: Linux ran perfectly well on a 486DX4 100, so why would linux people want to upgrade to anything more. I mean, if it runs so well then........

 

[aapje89]

But atleast linux users aren't forced to upgrade their hardware

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

But atleast linux users aren't forced to upgrade their hardware

But you do though don't you, can I ask why?

Edit:
Okay the best question is, why do linux users bother to upgrade, as the kernal obviously runs on the slimest hardware. So why bother upgrading?

 

[Radek]

But atleast linux users aren't forced to upgrade their hardware

But you do though don't you, can I ask why?

Edit:
Okay the best question is, why do linux users bother to upgrade, as the kernal obviously runs on the slimest hardware. So why bother upgrading?

And many of us (Linux users and Windows users too who might have enough of constant push of hardly improving productivity things) don't.

At least don't so often now.

I still don't know in how Vista flashy GUI would improve my C coding for an example?

Is it so hard to comprehend a concept of "enough"?

I have enough processing power now, I have enough storage capability, I basically have a computer what is doing 100 percent what I want.

So it'd be idiotic for me just to make a heavy upgrade only to have some transparent widgets. No - thanks not this time - perhaps for 10 bucks as it's exactly worth 10$ for me to have such nerdy "feature".

And I just found this funny web comic.

 

[Nova]

And I just found this funny web comic.

Really, you only just found it?

'cos one of the blokes here does the art for it,

What a coincedence!

EDIT: David Beoulve's his name.

 

[DemonStar55]

But atleast linux users aren't forced to upgrade their hardware

But you do though don't you, can I ask why?

Edit:
Okay the best question is, why do linux users bother to upgrade, as the kernal obviously runs on the slimest hardware. So why bother upgrading?

for me, it would be games, but now that I use linux and have a gp2x, that isn't a concern for me anymore, plus most new games suck

 

[Radek]

But atleast linux users aren't forced to upgrade their hardware

But you do though don't you, can I ask why?

Edit:
Okay the best question is, why do linux users bother to upgrade, as the kernal obviously runs on the slimest hardware. So why bother upgrading?

for me, it would be games, but now that I use linux and have a gp2x, that isn't a concern for me anymore, plus most new games suck

Well... in the old DOS days configuration of a PC had to be done manually. But it was so hard? PC were quite simple then - no special drivers for graphics cards (VGA was hardware level standard and VESA BIOS was in... eprom chips on cards themselves). There were some playing with I/O ports and interrupts for sound cards thought. Usually only two/three numbers to set. There was the EMM386 too but again its configuration was nothing when comparing to WIndows' registry.

Now looks at what we have now... Everything must have a driver what is usually very complicated or even encumbered with problem causing cheats (oh that Ati and nVidia...). The codebase increased so much it's can not be called even a jungle - it's far, far worse. The freshly installed Windows is basically useless and even dangerous without additional software.
(I don't consider IE and Mediaplayer, or Paint, Wordpad and calculator as productive software)

Compare it with MS-DOS what was shipping with such things like Q-Basic.
The 8-bit microcomputers have build in Basic and line editors too. Those machines were usable just after turning them on.
I myself was learning to program on the Atari800. It was so simple then - just turn computer on...
Load some other software? Put a cassete or floppy in reader and push some keys.

I miss those old times not only of nostalgia reasons.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

I miss those old times not only of nostalgia reasons.

Me too, this is why I have a cupboard full of retro computers. To this day I still drag out my old Amiga or ZX Spectrum for a giggle :rolleyes: .

 

[aapje89]

But atleast linux users aren't forced to upgrade their hardware

But you do though don't you, can I ask why?

Edit:
Okay the best question is, why do linux users bother to upgrade, as the kernal obviously runs on the slimest hardware. So why bother upgrading?

And many of us (Linux users and Windows users too who might have enough of constant push of hardly improving productivity things) don't.

At least don't so often now.

I still don't know in how Vista flashy GUI would improve my C coding for an example?

Is it so hard to comprehend a concept of "enough"?

I have enough processing power now, I have enough storage capability, I basically have a computer what is doing 100 percent what I want.

So it'd be idiotic for me just to make a heavy upgrade only to have some transparent widgets. No - thanks not this time - perhaps for 10 bucks as it's exactly worth 10$ for me to have such nerdy "feature".

exactly, my linux server is a 600mhz box with 384mb ram and it still runs fine, even better than fine .
I cant even run a bare vista install on that, I think even xp would be hard.

 

[Radek]

I have enough processing power now, I have enough storage capability, I basically have a computer what is doing 100 percent what I want.

So it'd be idiotic for me just to make a heavy upgrade only to have some transparent widgets. No - thanks not this time - perhaps for 10 bucks as it's exactly worth 10$ for me to have such nerdy "feature".

exactly, my linux server is a 600mhz box with 384mb ram and it still runs fine, even better than fine .
I cant even run a bare vista install on that, I think even xp would be hard.

For my eventual PC upgrades I'm considering now:
AMD Athlon Geode NX2001 - only 6W of power at 1Ghz and it can run up to 2.2Ghz (if needed). So I could remove one fan from my case.

Thermaltake PurePower 350W Fanless - another one fan what could be removed.

My current drive is 2.5 Toshiba 5400rpm - it's quiet and doesn't generate much heat like those 7200rpm monsters. And putting it into special Scythe enclosing made it dead quiet.
(for make up for its slower speed I just putted extra 0.5Gb ram for a cache)

My Radeon 9550 has already a passive radiator.

My machine is practically online by all time (even when I'm sleeping) so silent operation and low power consumption are very important for me.

Ideally I'd love to have one of those Zalman TNN cases. But too much expensive especially I can get close to such results with spending far less money. And TNN is too big in size and heavy.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

Hey I just installed Vista Beta 2 on a spare machine at work, and I REALLY like the interface. I'm definately upgrading to Vista when it's released. This has Media Center built into it as well. Very much worth it for my multimedia PC.

 

[aapje89]

I have enough processing power now, I have enough storage capability, I basically have a computer what is doing 100 percent what I want.

So it'd be idiotic for me just to make a heavy upgrade only to have some transparent widgets. No - thanks not this time - perhaps for 10 bucks as it's exactly worth 10$ for me to have such nerdy "feature".

exactly, my linux server is a 600mhz box with 384mb ram and it still runs fine, even better than fine .
I cant even run a bare vista install on that, I think even xp would be hard.

For my eventual PC upgrades I'm considering now:
AMD Athlon Geode NX2001 - only 6W of power at 1Ghz and it can run up to 2.2Ghz (if needed). So I could remove one fan from my case.

Thermaltake PurePower 350W Fanless - another one fan what could be removed.

My current drive is 2.5 Toshiba 5400rpm - it's quiet and doesn't generate much heat like those 7200rpm monsters. And putting it into special Scythe enclosing made it dead quiet.
(for make up for its slower speed I just putted extra 0.5Gb ram for a cache)

My Radeon 9550 has already a passive radiator.

My machine is practically online by all time (even when I'm sleeping) so silent operation and low power consumption are very important for me.

Ideally I'd love to have one of those Zalman TNN cases. But too much expensive especially I can get close to such results with spending far less money. And TNN is too big in size and heavy.

when I google AMD Athlon Geode NX2001 I only seem to find polish links...
perhaps this is a polish productname or something? Do you have an english link?

according to this: http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolut...3_10837,00.html
there is no nx2001.

Sounds like a nice setup anyway . My x300 is also passive ^^ and I have a samsung spinpoint s-ata drive, wich is quite silent, the only thing making a LOT of noise is my psu.
That thermaltake psu is a bit to expensive for me though at 140 euros.
Do you know some other good, cheap and silent psu's?

 

[Radek]

I have enough processing power now, I have enough storage capability, I basically have a computer what is doing 100 percent what I want.

So it'd be idiotic for me just to make a heavy upgrade only to have some transparent widgets. No - thanks not this time - perhaps for 10 bucks as it's exactly worth 10$ for me to have such nerdy "feature".

exactly, my linux server is a 600mhz box with 384mb ram and it still runs fine, even better than fine .
I cant even run a bare vista install on that, I think even xp would be hard.

For my eventual PC upgrades I'm considering now:
AMD Athlon Geode NX2001 - only 6W of power at 1Ghz and it can run up to 2.2Ghz (if needed). So I could remove one fan from my case.

Thermaltake PurePower 350W Fanless - another one fan what could be removed.

My current drive is 2.5 Toshiba 5400rpm - it's quiet and doesn't generate much heat like those 7200rpm monsters. And putting it into special Scythe enclosing made it dead quiet.
(for make up for its slower speed I just putted extra 0.5Gb ram for a cache)

My Radeon 9550 has already a passive radiator.

My machine is practically online by all time (even when I'm sleeping) so silent operation and low power consumption are very important for me.

Ideally I'd love to have one of those Zalman TNN cases. But too much expensive especially I can get close to such results with spending far less money. And TNN is too big in size and heavy.

when I google AMD Athlon Geode NX2001 I only seem to find polish links...
perhaps this is a polish productname or something? Do you have an english link?

According to this: http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolut...3_10837,00.html
there is no nx2001.

Well... one polish shop is claiming to have such CPU:
http://sklep.komputronik.pl/pelny.php?id=29551

It's probably renamed OEM part what is being sold as retail. An quite normal practise here in Poland. Or (ugh) it's so overclocking well (up to 2.2Ghz) so some polish vendors made up a "new model".
(thought they might be giving warranty for such specs)

I will investigate it as I didn't know there isn't such part on official AMD website.

Sounds like a nice setup anyway . My x300 is also passive ^^ and I have a samsung spinpoint s-ata drive, wich is quite silent, the only thing making a LOT of noise is my psu.

Get one with 12cm fan. FAR quiter or even one with 14cm. The bigger fan the better. I have cheap 12cm PSU from Chieftec and so far it's very nice.

That thermaltake psu is a bit to expensive for me though at 140 euros.
Do you know some other good, cheap and silent psu's?

No, unfortunately no and I'm only considering it too.

A passive PUS isn't an easy to do as most of its elements must be cooled. Without any airflow it might break even if built in radiator isn't getting hot.

 

[aapje89]

Im going to poland on vacation by the way .
3rd time then, I know sklep is store in polish and pivo was beer if I remember correctly

 

[Cyclops]

Just as I was having a good laugh at fluffy. The conversation moves to poland and fans. I'm shocked.

This is the funniest thread I have ever read ever. I particularly liked the ubuntu vs vista screenshots.

I can actually feel my knowledge seeping out of my ears as I read fluffies posts. I vote for her as supa-Guru.

On topic.

Vista is SOOO pretty