Any Game Can Now Be Emulated!

[XxionxX]

The latency I experience just Remote Playing something like Bionic Commando:Rearmed from my PS3 to my PSP makes it almost unplayable even on the lowest video quality setting, and that's a direct wifi connection to the system which makes it no good for anything other than playing turn based games. Introducing elements like the randomness of the internet and servers kicking out data to hundreds other people doesnt give me any reason to expect much from this or the other similar "service" I keep hearing about.

So you stream games from your PS3 to your PSP over a 802.11n wireless network and they are still slow!?

 

[Exophase]

I've never seen a single online service that wasnt impacted by underestimating the user load once they open up to the public. There's no way this will be able to offer a stable connection over a long period of gameplay especially with people demanding huge highres images of the games they play (I seriously doubt many people are going to want to play something like splintercell in a postage stamp sized window, heck I'd bet most people with a powerful enough rig will be expecting a full hd picture).

Loads of websites stream video today at resolutions higher than "postage stamp", some even at "HD", what makes you think game streaming ones can be any less capable? Yeah people might expect "full HD" but who cares, it's a question of what everyone else thinks is acceptable.

The latency I experience just Remote Playing something like Bionic Commando:Rearmed from my PS3 to my PSP makes it almost unplayable even on the lowest video quality setting, and that's a direct wifi connection to the system which makes it no good for anything other than playing turn based games. Introducing elements like the randomness of the internet and servers kicking out data to hundreds other people doesnt give me any reason to expect much from this or the other similar "service" I keep hearing about.

You're confusing latency and bandwidth here. Low video quality settings won't fix your latency. If remote play from your PS3 to PSP sucks then it's your PSP or your router that's the broken link on this, by introducing a ton of extra latency, or the way remote play is being implemented is totally broken.

Your experience is not the least bit expected or typical and makes no real sense, something is broken - like I said, if what you're saying is true then online multiplayer would have never taken off for anything. Do you really think that in the real world netplay doesn't work? Streaming video doesn't change the way the latency works, it just adds a lot of bandwidth requirements, which are proven feasible in the real world. I don't really see the big problem here.

 

[XxionxX]

Can someone please tell me what this field is called or point me to a community I can ask questions to! I really want to give this a shot. Who makes things like this!? I really want to make a home game-server for the panda! Is there someone on the GP32X boards who is working on this right now? Can I help/pester them?

 

[Alpha2]

The latency I experience just Remote Playing something like Bionic Commando:Rearmed from my PS3 to my PSP makes it almost unplayable even on the lowest video quality setting, and that's a direct wifi connection to the system which makes it no good for anything other than playing turn based games. Introducing elements like the randomness of the internet and servers kicking out data to hundreds other people doesnt give me any reason to expect much from this or the other similar "service" I keep hearing about.

So you stream games from your PS3 to your PSP over a 802.11n wireless network and they are still slow!?

I'm not quite sure with the Wifi in the PS3 is I think it's 802.11g but dont quote me on it, but what I am saying is that a DIRECT wireless feed from the PS3 to my PSP results in at least a half second delay. The quality of video setting is designed to reduce the latency between the two systems. it's not dumbing down what the PSP displays it's dumbing down what the PS3 sends to me to shrink the amount of data that the PSP has to display. Even on the minimal data rate its a half second (or more) between pressing a button and getting a visible response on screen without using the internet standing 10 feet from the system.

I'd make a video to show the time difference by I think a youtube vid would introduce a less accurate depection.

Exophase, perhaps I'm not understanding your definition of netplay so I'm not even going to try and argue against your reason and accept it as a given. I'm speaking from the perspective of the end user, what I will say is that the PS3 to PSP remote play connection is exactly the same thing that they're claiming these streaming services are supposed to provide and from my experience, not even using a router, the response doesnt seem like it will be as tight as they're promising. A non interactive video stream from youtube is a lot different from playing an interactive game, for me a regular 360p youtube video may or may not instantly play from beginning to end, so I will have to pause the video and let it buffer for 15 seconds or more so that it doesnt stop again. What the average user is going to expect is a full screen instantaneous experience playing a game with the same streaming video that people are using on youtube and they're going to be disappointed, that's what I'm getting at.

 

[Zeno Arrow]

Can someone please tell me what this field is called or point me to a community I can ask questions to! I really want to give this a shot. Who makes things like this!? I really want to make a home game-server for the panda! Is there someone on the GP32X boards who is working on this right now? Can I help/pester them?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7MqWlB2GI

Google "VNC" if you want more details.

 

[Zeno Arrow]

I'm not quite sure with the Wifi in the PS3 is I think it's 802.11g but dont quote me on it, but what I am saying is that a DIRECT wireless feed from the PS3 to my PSP results in at least a half second delay.

What about the WiFi on the PSP? According to this page it's only 802.11b:
http://playstation.about.com/od/psp/a/PSPSpecs.htm

 

[XxionxX]

Can someone please tell me what this field is called or point me to a community I can ask questions to! I really want to give this a shot. Who makes things like this!? I really want to make a home game-server for the panda! Is there someone on the GP32X boards who is working on this right now? Can I help/pester them?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7MqWlB2GI

Google "VNC" if you want more details.

Thank you!

 

[SomeGuy99]

What would 802.11n do for your Pandora battery life? It essentially uses multiple parallel WIFI connections. Unless they have some kind of nifty power saving feature, this will cost you three or four times the battery life of a single 802.11g connection.

 

[JayFoxRox]

XxionxX: You could start by looking at the glc or taksi sourcecode if you are targeting a linux host, then maybe remotejoy for PSP and you would most likely want to learn how to compress videos, write a stable network library etc.
I'd say writing a video stream application is a rather complex job, probably somewhat harder than writing a small game.

//Edit: Holy shit, lots of new messages in only 10 minutes..

 

[Alpha2]

I'm not quite sure with the Wifi in the PS3 is I think it's 802.11g but dont quote me on it, but what I am saying is that a DIRECT wireless feed from the PS3 to my PSP results in at least a half second delay.

What about the WiFi on the PSP? According to this page it's only 802.11b:
http://playstation.a.../a/PSPSpecs.htm

The article here might be talking about the PSP 1000, I'm using the 2000 model which I think they actually improved the wifi on but it might be the same,

EDIT:// okay, they have a spec page for the 2000 and it says it's the same thing.

 

[Zeno Arrow]

Can someone please tell me what this field is called or point me to a community I can ask questions to! I really want to give this a shot. Who makes things like this!? I really want to make a home game-server for the panda! Is there someone on the GP32X boards who is working on this right now? Can I help/pester them?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7MqWlB2GI

Google "VNC" if you want more details.

Thank you!

You're welcome.

That video wasn't actually quite what I thought it was. But I did find the command you'll need to run to install VNC via the Pandora package manager, assuming you have a Pandora already. The command is: opkg install angstrom-x11vnc-xinit .

What that should do is install a VNC client on your Pandora, you'd then run a VNC server on your main PC, and after some configuring, you should be able to view your PC desktop on your Pandora.

Even better would be putting a VNC client in a PND file to make it portable, I've not tried this before, you're better off asking in the dev forum.

JayFoxRox gave you some good advice though in the last page, worth looking into that too as I'm not sure VNC will be optimised enough to stream game data at full speed, but at least it's somewhere to start.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Can someone please tell me what this field is called or point me to a community I can ask questions to! I really want to give this a shot. Who makes things like this!? I really want to make a home game-server for the panda! Is there someone on the GP32X boards who is working on this right now? Can I help/pester them?

Same here. I was just thinking of running a daemon of sorts that captures the screen (or window), encodes the frames as video (maybe use a codec with low latency) and streams it to Pandora. Then make a player for Pandora that can display the stream (or use one of the video players, VLC maybe).

The sending back the input would probably be simpler. I'm guessing there are ways to read the inputs from a background daemon and send them over the network. Replaying at the target computer will require another daemon probably.

Well, that's the naive implementation, (which is as much as I'll probably capable of ). Don't know if there will be any serious issues with it.

EDIT: I got ninja'd h34r: like ten times

 

[XxionxX]

XxionxX: You could start by looking at the glc or taksi sourcecode if you are targeting a linux host, then maybe remotejoy for PSP and you would most likely want to learn how to compress videos, write a stable network library etc.
I'd say writing a video stream application is a rather complex job, probably somewhat harder than writing a small game.

//Edit: Holy shit, lots of new messages in only 10 minutes..

Hmm.... Are there any open source video stream applications that would allow me to incorporate their product into mine? What do you think of the VNC idea? Am I re-inventing the wheel? Does it need to be redone for the Panda's processor?

Edit: Woh! h34r: ninjas!

 

[Zeno Arrow]

Can someone please tell me what this field is called or point me to a community I can ask questions to! I really want to give this a shot. Who makes things like this!? I really want to make a home game-server for the panda! Is there someone on the GP32X boards who is working on this right now? Can I help/pester them?

Same here. I was just thinking of running a daemon of sorts that captures the screen (or window), encodes the frames as video (maybe use a codec with low latency) and streams it to Pandora. Then make a player for Pandora that can display the stream (or use one of the video players, VLC maybe).

The sending back the input would probably be simpler. I'm guessing there are ways to read the inputs from a background daemon and send them over the network. Replaying at the target computer will require another daemon probably.

Well, that's the naive implementation, (which is as much as I'll probably capable of ). Don't know if there will be any serious issues with it.

EDIT: I got ninja'd h34r: like ten times

VLC is a good choice for streaming video. What you want to do is set up an FFmpeg daemon to encode the stream, serving this via an FFserver daemon. VLC (MPlayer would probably work too) picks up on the stream to display it. For controls you could just set up your Pandora as a Bluetooth controller on your PC, though that might limit the range, I'm sure you could do something similar over WiFi.

 

[Zeno Arrow]

XxionxX: You could start by looking at the glc or taksi sourcecode if you are targeting a linux host, then maybe remotejoy for PSP and you would most likely want to learn how to compress videos, write a stable network library etc.
I'd say writing a video stream application is a rather complex job, probably somewhat harder than writing a small game.

//Edit: Holy shit, lots of new messages in only 10 minutes..

Hmm.... Are there any open source video stream applications that would allow me to incorporate their product into mine? What do you think of the VNC idea? Am I re-inventing the wheel? Does it need to be redone for the Panda's processor?

Are you hoping to release it commercially?

 

[XxionxX]

XxionxX: You could start by looking at the glc or taksi sourcecode if you are targeting a linux host, then maybe remotejoy for PSP and you would most likely want to learn how to compress videos, write a stable network library etc.
I'd say writing a video stream application is a rather complex job, probably somewhat harder than writing a small game.

//Edit: Holy shit, lots of new messages in only 10 minutes..

Hmm.... Are there any open source video stream applications that would allow me to incorporate their product into mine? What do you think of the VNC idea? Am I re-inventing the wheel? Does it need to be redone for the Panda's processor?

Are you hoping to release it commercially?

No, I just wanted to make a personal project for the panda that I could share with others without having to worry about lic fees ect. I just got a small waterfall's worth of information so I am still processing, but I think it sounds like i could just fork a VNC project to be specifically for games. I liked the idea of WiFi-ing games to my panda and I didn't know about this other software. Now I just want to jump on the bandwagon of some group and either help develop their project or fork my own.

 

[SomeGuy99]

I thought VNC was already in the firmware?

 

[Zeno Arrow]

XxionxX: You could start by looking at the glc or taksi sourcecode if you are targeting a linux host, then maybe remotejoy for PSP and you would most likely want to learn how to compress videos, write a stable network library etc.
I'd say writing a video stream application is a rather complex job, probably somewhat harder than writing a small game.

//Edit: Holy shit, lots of new messages in only 10 minutes..

Hmm.... Are there any open source video stream applications that would allow me to incorporate their product into mine? What do you think of the VNC idea? Am I re-inventing the wheel? Does it need to be redone for the Panda's processor?

Are you hoping to release it commercially?

No, I just wanted to make a personal project for the panda that I could share with others without having to worry about lic fees ect. I just got a small waterfall's worth of information so I am still processing, but I think it sounds like i could just fork a VNC project to be specifically for games. I liked the idea of WiFi-ing games to my panda and I didn't know about this other software. Now I just want to jump on the bandwagon of some group and either help develop their project or fork my own.

Sounds like you want to do this properly rather than just going for the easiest solution (which would be VNC). First thing to do would be sort out the control over WiFi issue.

For control over WiFi, worth looking into socket programming. Here's a introduction:
http://www.troubleshooters.com/codecorn/sockets/index.htm

Here's a video guide to socket programming (it's from SecurityTube, which you'll probably find to be an interesting resource, seeing as you want to be a hacker):
http://www.securitytube.net/Socket-Programming-Basics-Presentation-video.aspx

An overview on how to handle the video/audio stuff well is in my reply to Yoyobuae.

Once you've got the control and audio+video stuff sorted, you need a way to serve the games, for this you'll need to write an app (or scripts). Basically you're looking at a way to build a menu of games that you can choose from. I've got ideas on how you could handle this, but one thing at a time. Get the socket programming stuff under your belt and you're over half way there.

I thought VNC was already in the firmware?

Quite possibly, I don't have a Pandora, maybe someone who has will tell us.

 

[JayFoxRox]

I recommended the tools because they are optimized to record opengl software. VNC is probably too slow to capture that.
And yes, if you just want a already working solution it's definatly just re-inventing the wheel if not even stealing the wheel.

Most streaming software out there is not optimized for hardware accelerated stuff - so if you want to work on something, then I'd target exactly that.

 

[XxionxX]

Once you've got the control and audio+video stuff sorted, you need a way to serve the games, for this you'll need to write an app (or scripts). Basically you're looking at a way to build a menu of games that you can choose from. I've got ideas on how you could handle this, but one thing at a time. Get the socket programming stuff under your belt and you're over half way there.

This is my new favorite programming goal. Thanks for the advice!

Edit: Thank you too JayFoxRox!