itsmyusername
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Any Game Can Now Be Emulated!
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Prometheus
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This will not work. Here's the problem (emphasis mine);
Sorry.
At this time, there is no official version of Adobe's Flash Player for ARM-based Linux machines, which the Pandora is.
Sorry.
itsmyusername
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that's also the issue with ipads, + ipads' no-flash issue + their iphone OS..
but many internet articles say that its possible..
but many internet articles say that its possible..
Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
Even if the Pandora did have Flash...
I like how they assume everyone has a connection that good.
atomicthumbs
I am the king of the collectors, with hospital bed
kun said:
reality shall bend to suit the articles
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itsmyusername
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Elanzer
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kun said:
And the reason it's supported on the iphone is that they've created an application specifically for it. Flash is the universal option.
There's almost zero chance they will create a Pandora-specific version. So until the Pandora gets flash, no it's not happening.
The whole onlive-type idea is pretty stupid anyways as the latency will make most games nearly unplayable, only slow paced games like turn-based RPGs will realistically be playable. All the demos they've shown of the technology are near-local with zilch for latency and no -actual- gameplay. (no, walking around in Crysis and shooting at some trees doesn't represent actual gameplay)
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XxionxX
Active Member
I think this is the second streaming gaming service I have seen on these boards. Doesn't this mean that it's only a matter of time before someone makes a service that we might be able to make work for us? I really like this idea event though I don't have a broadband connection.
kuru
Laptop und Trachtenjanker
As mentioned above latency will kill most games. Those services sound like half-scams to me.
XxionxX
Active Member
What about that other similar idea, you know the one where you put your games on a local computer which can run them and then make it a sever. The latency on a local machine and network wouldn't be too bad. And if someone was so inclined, would it be hard to write a program specifically for the ARM architecture? I am not a hacker, but I am working on becoming one. If it's not hugely difficult this sounds like a fun goal which would teach me about network programming and some other good basic stuff.
XxionxX
Active Member
-_- No takers on my question? I just wanted to know how hard a project like that would be from someone with exp. It sounded like it would be cool and not insanely hard. Although I could be insanely wrong and missing something.
XxionxX
Active Member
SomeGuy99 said:To get the kind of bandwidth you need, you'd have to use Ethernet. That makes it less fun to be honest
Really? Not even wireless N? Doesn't that hover around 80Mbps (theoretical max 100Mbps)? I could get a USB adapter and it could work for the panda.
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
I think you're all missing the bigger issue here - this is for playing games installed on their servers, not games you install on your servers. So how are you going to get them to install "any emulator" and "any ROM"?
Latency isn't necessarily insurmountable; especially if they had several servers they could keep ping as low as < 50ms (plus a few more ms to get to your wifi router, this is with power savings off). Ping is round trip; ideally this should only be one way - you send controls with a timestamp that's buffered in a separate thread by the server and applied to the game as soon as it's available. Then the server sends back audio/video asynchronously. Compared to any real netplay situation it's a lot simpler since you don't have to synchronize/negotiate latency ahead of time, so you really end up just eating the minimal latency from the start. Which can be as low as 30ms or even less.
If this wasn't suitable for anything but slow turn based games then there's no way netplay with emulators would work worth anything (or multiplayer matches in FPSes for that matter), and for the record I've beaten Contra 3 on hard in 2p mode over netplay, with a fixed latency that was probably higher than what I'm describing. A couple frames may keep world class players from top performance but for most games and most gamers you'll barely even notice it. That's IF they have good servers and you don't have to go to another continent to get there. If any of these services want to make it big I imagine they'll at least have servers in North America, Europe, and maybe Australia.
The other issue, bandwidth, really isn't supposed to be one on Pandora. They say you minimally need 62KB/s, maximally around 250. Didn't craigix say over 600 was attained? I know some of you are getting like 100 max, but what happens when you turn off power saving? Anyway, my cable connection is capped at like 170KB/s, but I can still stream video well enough.
XxionX; People have talked about remote desktop sort of applications all the time. It's been done on PSP, it's been done on iPhone, I'm positive it'll be done on Pandora. It doesn't seem like such a revolutionary step to me.
Latency isn't necessarily insurmountable; especially if they had several servers they could keep ping as low as < 50ms (plus a few more ms to get to your wifi router, this is with power savings off). Ping is round trip; ideally this should only be one way - you send controls with a timestamp that's buffered in a separate thread by the server and applied to the game as soon as it's available. Then the server sends back audio/video asynchronously. Compared to any real netplay situation it's a lot simpler since you don't have to synchronize/negotiate latency ahead of time, so you really end up just eating the minimal latency from the start. Which can be as low as 30ms or even less.
If this wasn't suitable for anything but slow turn based games then there's no way netplay with emulators would work worth anything (or multiplayer matches in FPSes for that matter), and for the record I've beaten Contra 3 on hard in 2p mode over netplay, with a fixed latency that was probably higher than what I'm describing. A couple frames may keep world class players from top performance but for most games and most gamers you'll barely even notice it. That's IF they have good servers and you don't have to go to another continent to get there. If any of these services want to make it big I imagine they'll at least have servers in North America, Europe, and maybe Australia.
The other issue, bandwidth, really isn't supposed to be one on Pandora. They say you minimally need 62KB/s, maximally around 250. Didn't craigix say over 600 was attained? I know some of you are getting like 100 max, but what happens when you turn off power saving? Anyway, my cable connection is capped at like 170KB/s, but I can still stream video well enough.
XxionX; People have talked about remote desktop sort of applications all the time. It's been done on PSP, it's been done on iPhone, I'm positive it'll be done on Pandora. It doesn't seem like such a revolutionary step to me.
XxionxX
Active Member
Exophase said:
Where do I find these people? I want in, the more I think about it the better it sounds. I really want to get into server/network programming and this sounds like a boat load of fun. I am a total beginner (think C, PHP and 'hello world'). But I have been looking for a project and this doesn't seem like an insurmountable programming project. No offense to the game programmers, but that seems like a LOT of work. I just want to be able to make things work and not have to call the dude in India. I like the real world application side of programming. Does anyone know where I can find some kind of starting point or community?
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XxionxX
Active Member
SomeGuy99 said:
Ipod Touch is 802.11b=11 Mbit/s or 802.11g=54 Mbit/s which is slow. I am talking 802.11n=100 Mbit/s which is a might faster. According to this wiki it might get even faster (I think thats what it says, unless I'm just jumping the gun).
Edit: Just checked newegg and they said that their 802.11n routers (the one I looked at) have a 300 Mbit/s data rate.
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Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
I've never seen a single online service that wasnt impacted by underestimating the user load once they open up to the public. There's no way this will be able to offer a stable connection over a long period of gameplay especially with people demanding huge highres images of the games they play (I seriously doubt many people are going to want to play something like splintercell in a postage stamp sized window, heck I'd bet most people with a powerful enough rig will be expecting a full hd picture).
The latency I experience just Remote Playing something like Bionic Commando:Rearmed from my PS3 to my PSP makes it almost unplayable even on the lowest video quality setting, and that's a direct wifi connection to the system which makes it no good for anything other than playing turn based games. Introducing elements like the randomness of the internet and servers kicking out data to hundreds other people doesnt give me any reason to expect much from this or the other similar "service" I keep hearing about.
The latency I experience just Remote Playing something like Bionic Commando:Rearmed from my PS3 to my PSP makes it almost unplayable even on the lowest video quality setting, and that's a direct wifi connection to the system which makes it no good for anything other than playing turn based games. Introducing elements like the randomness of the internet and servers kicking out data to hundreds other people doesnt give me any reason to expect much from this or the other similar "service" I keep hearing about.
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