A Few Pandora Software Questions


juggleclown

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Hey. I'm considering getting a Pandora. Well, not so much considering as trying to figure out how to justify spending $300+ that I barely have when I've got too many handhelds, consoles, and computers. XD

Anyways, the thing looks and sounds absolutely amazing, the "last handheld device I'll ever need", but for real this time. TV out on the PSP is awful, web browsing is poor on PSP and abysmal on DS, the PSP controls suck, the DS resolution is too small for most emulators, and my laptop, currently the most portable computer I have, is a hunking Thinkpad that overheats in minutes (making the keyboard very uncomfortable), has no working battery, and can be shut off just by moving the wire. I'm using it right now!

Not much needs to be said on selling this to me, but I'd like to know a few specifics anyways. I could probably do more reading, but I've been reading about this thing all day, and I figured maybe I could just get a few quick answers by asking. :)


The TV-out, it's composite yellow, white, and red cables, right? Is the cable generic and easily replaceable in the future? How about the battery? One thing I hate is specialized batteries and chargers that cost so much that just replacing something would be cheaper. Like with my Thinkpad, I can either buy a $100 battery, or use my mediocre-at-best soldering skills and follow some guide I found once, which is something I've been less-than-eager to do.

My cellphone lasts in standby for about a day, and I can talk for 30 minutes, because the battery is pretty much dead. By comparison, my Neo Geo Pocket Color runs 20-something hours on rechargeable AA nimhs, which are easily replaced. That's one reason I've considered the edubook on multiple occasions, is it's ability to run on 8 AA's that can be recharged inside the unit. Not a deal-breaker, but it'd be nice to know I won't have battery issues come 2020, and I really hope that the group behind Pandora is still around for the next century (I really do, you guys are great, this thing is the future), but if they're not, then I don't wanna be screwed.

Also, does it get hot? My Thinkpad gets uncomfortably hot. I mean, it scares me how hot it gets. I'm not a smart guy, but I've opened it, was surprised to see the fan was working and relatively free of dust, but it's not easily serviceable, being a laptop and all. I don't care about fixing it that much (Pandora would make a GREAT replacement, it's not like I do anything intensive on here anyway), but the bottom of it gets hot enough, that if I touch it, I've burned myself on a few occasions. Sometimes I put it on icepacks to keep cool, but it melts them pretty quickly. I stopped putting it on my lap years ago. The Pandora has twice the processing power of the PSP, and a hell of a lot more ram, and that little thing can get a bit warm. Does the Pandora keep cool well?

This thing runs Quake 3, with it's 600Mhz and 256MB ram. I don't really understand how the graphics are on this thing, though. As in, I couldn't really find what the "video memory" of it is. Is that applicable? The video memory of my laptop is 16mb, the processor is 2ghz, and the ram is 1gb. So, it's about 4x more powerful in those two regards, but what about video? My laptop can barely do YouTube, so is that feasible, or not so much?


What is the state of NES emulation? I've seen a lot of work on SNES, but it looks like there are only two NES emulators, and one of them was in the "yellow" range of compatibility. I had a 100mhz desktop that ran NES perfectly, so I know it's a matter of "when" if anything, but is it pretty much perfect right now?


The ports of Doom, Quake, Heretic, Hexen, and so forth are of interest to me. Especially Hexen, being one of my all time favorite games. Interest in portable Hexen is what got me into getting an R4 for my DS, and buying a PSP and a pandora battery just to put CFW on it. Unfortunately, the ports of Doom-engine games for both systems were much worse than the Quake I ports (both of which were actually very good, though they had some odd weaknesses, and didn't control all that great, especially the PSP. Nice thing about the Pandora is those great controls, and being able plug in a keyboard and mouse), and no FPS ports seemed to have music. Do they already have working music on the Pandora? I've seen those projects just die unfinished on PSP and DS.


How is SNES emulation? I've seen videos of F-Zero and Mario Kart, and they look great. What about later and more advanced stuff like Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, Doom, Stunt Race FX, Vortex, etc? One particular one is Equinox, which doesn't use any special chips, but has spent the longest time not being emulated well in both ZSNES and Snes9x.


N64 emulation looks pretty good, from the Super Mario 64 video I saw (much better controls than SM64DS). How is sound and compatibility? Do you think it will be perfect in the future? It looks like Pandora can handle N64 very well already.

I know there's no hope in hell for Saturn, and Genesis is already very good if not perfect. I saw a video of Sonic CD, which means Sega CD emulation. One system that very rarely gets emulators is the 32X. I don't see anything about 32X in Picodrive on the Pandora. I'd sure love to have Knuckles Chaotix on a handheld. Is there anything in the works, or is there just not enough interest?

I imagine support for the Pandora is still very much in it's infancy, despite how far things have already gotten. I know things will get better, but I just want to see what's working right now. The fact that it's already a powerful, linux-based computer shaped like a game system and designed specifically by and for the people writing and porting programs for this thing makes it the greatest handheld for this sort of thing ever devised.


How would, say, Minecraft run on this? It's a java-based game that can run in an internet browser. My laptop can't handle it that well due to it's low video capability. Does it seem likely that it will run (or already does run) well enough to be playable? Draw distance doesn't have to be max.

Is there some good RTS action on Pandora? I imagine there are some original homebrew efforts, but could Starcraft or Total Annihilation ever be done on here. There's probably not much luck for Starcraft, what with it being a Windows game, this thing running Linux on an ARM processor, and Blizzard's games aren't exactly open-source (one remake for the DS unfortunately got hit with a cease and desist). I think the source for Total Annihilation is available, though, and there's been a lot of fan stuff for that game. Do you think that could ever happen? Handhelds have been pretty awful as far as RTS gaming goes. There's been a few efforts, but they haven't been all that great, and the homebrew efforts are usually either not very fun, infringe on copyrights a little too much, or just never get far in development.


Neo Geo looks good so far. I've seen some Metal Slug 2 gameplay. I built myself an arcade stick and use it frequently (it's made with arcade parts and the PCB of a PS2 controller, so it plugs into PS2, and I use adapters for USB, Gamecube, XBox, etc, so it's pretty much universal). It'll be fun to be able to plug this thing into the wall, put it on the floor, plug it into the TV, and use USB controllers like that. I'm sure far too many of you have already gotten to do just that. ;_;

How is DOSBox? Is it easy to load up and play Jill of the Jungle, Commander Keen, and ZZT?

Sorry, lots of questions. A lot of them I could probably find the answer to if I searched a little harder, but again, I just felt like asking here for anybody willing to answer. Just answer the ones you already have an answer to from experience. I'm sure I'll find the answers to all of these in due time, anyways.


I've always wanted to be involved in programming. Never had anyone to teach me, and learning through the internet isn't easy. I've been dabbling in everything from Basic to C++ and Java for decades, and have lots of experience with game makers like ZZT, Megazeux, RPG Maker, and whatnot. I've done months of reading on how to model for the Source Engine, but it's very complicated. I've got some level of skill with simple 3D modeling, but all of the exporting and whatnot is confusing, I've pretty much given up on most of these pursuits.

An odd question, but is the Pandora a good platform for learning this kind of stuff? I mean, I'm old, I've been around for too many decades, and see teenagers making games and mods, and I just think "How in the HELL did they learn this stuff?!". Eh, they learn in months what I've spent decades researching, not understanding, and failing at. >_<


Well, that's all. Thanks in advance. I want this thing so freaking bad, and I'm willing to spend weeks of food money and live off of ramen (well, more than usual) to get it!
 
Many of your questions are generic and too "use a search engine", others are hard to find. Would have helped if you simply asked instead of adding so much text (I know, it seems nicer and probably is :) ).

Also, does it get hot? - No, but it gets warm enough to comfortably warm your hands when the blood drained because of one hour of concentrated screen fixation.

The Minecraft dev hinted he might port it I think. Search for "minecraft".

How is DOSBox? - : key is not working, mouse pointer has a very annoying offset bug just like ScummVM, apart from that it is nice.

The Pandora is terrible to do any serious work on it unless you add a keyboard, mouse and screen. And then it is just a PC. Not sure what you really want to know?
 
juggleclown said:
The TV-out, it's composite yellow, white, and red cables, right? Is the cable generic and easily replaceable in the future? How about the battery? One thing I hate is specialized batteries and chargers that cost so much that just replacing something would be cheaper. Like with my Thinkpad, I can either buy a $100 battery, or use my mediocre-at-best soldering skills and follow some guide I found once, which is something I've been less-than-eager to do.

The TV out is s-video/composite for video plus red&white audio. It is on a propitiatory connector as OPT also wanted to provide options for audio in and serial connections. This could not be done (space reasons) in any other way apparently.

So far no TV cables have been shipped or, afaik, manufactured.

...re battery...

The battery is propitiatory. Afaik the only way to get as much power in the correct size.

Battery lasts 6-12 hours use depending on what you're doing. There is no standby mode yet, but closing the lid turns the backlight to the screen off, which gives about 20hrs use from a full charge. Eventually the screen will be able to be totally switched off and the CPU under-volted which should give around 30 hrs 'standby' time.

Also, does it get hot?

It gets lukewarm. Unless you're carrying it around switched on on a hot day. Then it gets hot, but not burny fingers hot

N64 emulation looks pretty good, from the Super Mario 64 video I saw (much better controls than SM64DS). How is sound and compatibility? Do you think it will be perfect in the future? It looks like Pandora can handle N64 very well already.

Compatibility is still pretty poor, and games generally need frameskip to work.

I don't see anything about 32X in Picodrive on the Pandora. I'd sure love to have Knuckles Chaotix on a handheld. Is there anything in the works, or is there just not enough interest?

Notaz eventually wants to support 32x in Picodrive but he's waaaay busy with OS stuff and a GP2X compatibility layer, so could take a while.

How is DOSBox? Is it easy to load up and play Jill of the Jungle, Commander Keen, and ZZT?

Dunno about ZZT but Jill and Keen work just fine.

Sorry, lots of questions.

No worries. I ignored the ones I couldn't answer - hope somebody else can fill the gaps!
 
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Megazeux? Seriously? .. I mean, seriously? Heh. Should I know you from the community?

I actually did port MZX to Pandora then completely forgot about it. I should probably release that.
 
juggleclown said:
Is the cable generic and easily replaceable in the future?
The plug is not very generic, I don't know whether they simply took some rare plug or if it's an own design, but spare plugs for hardware hacking and using thinks like RS-232 will be sold.

juggleclown said:
How about the battery?
The battery isn't actually that expensive, ED sells them for 21 euros. If it will die one day and there is no way to get a replacement it shouldn't be very hard to make some battery pack, the power plug is also used by the PSP (the chargers delivered with the device are actually PSP chargers).

juggleclown said:
Also, does it get hot?
ARM CPUs are very efficient, there is not much energy that gets wasted as heat. The OMAP doesn't even need a cooling element.

juggleclown said:
This thing runs Quake 3, with it's 600Mhz and 256MB ram. I don't really understand how the graphics are on this thing, though. As in, I couldn't really find what the "video memory" of it is. Is that applicable?
It has no video memory, it feeds off the main RAM, which isn't actually such a big problem because everything sits in the OMAP. And don't try to compare different CPUs by their clock, it says hardly anything about how powerful they really are, especially if they have a completely different architecture.
 
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juggleclown said:
What is the state of NES emulation? I've seen a lot of work on SNES, but it looks like there are only two NES emulators, and one of them was in the "yellow" range of compatibility. I had a 100mhz desktop that ran NES perfectly, so I know it's a matter of "when" if anything, but is it pretty much perfect right now?
It's quite good for being so early in the Pandora's lifespan, and I'm happy with it personally - I haven't come across a single game I own that doesn't work. However, I haven't been able to get GPFCE working to my liking, and the other option, NesEmu, requires a bit of overclocking to work at full-speed*. NesEmu is the only one I've been using, and its compatibility seems to be pretty good (some music is not quite right - but it's more than plenty good enough in my view) - although it mysteriously chokes a bit during parts of the cutscenes in Magical Doropie (there's an obscure one for everyone to check out :p ).

*Don't count on being able to overclock. Any overclockability a unit gets is just a bonus. I would imagine that future developments in NES emulation will not require this.

It'll be fun to be able to plug this thing into the wall, put it on the floor, plug it into the TV, and use USB controllers like that. I'm sure far too many of you have already gotten to do just that. ;_;
Not just yet. :lol: Unfortunately the TV-out cables aren't shipping yet. I'm very much looking forward to this, though. :)

How is DOSBox? Is it easy to load up and play Jill of the Jungle, Commander Keen, and ZZT?
It's got a nice front-end that supports the creation of profiles containing settings you've tuned for particular games or series, which is nice and easy to get to grips with. All of the Commander Keen titles that I have (I bought the Invasion of the Vorticons/Goodbye Galaxy! set via iD's website) run perfectly. I've gotten Jazz Jackrabbit CD running well with a specific bunch of settings, too (I wrote them down somewhere, so I should be able to find them if anyone wants them).

An odd question, but is the Pandora a good platform for learning this kind of stuff? I mean, I'm old, I've been around for too many decades, and see teenagers making games and mods, and I just think "How in the HELL did they learn this stuff?!". Eh, they learn in months what I've spent decades researching, not understanding, and failing at. >_<
I'm pretty sure that there are folks who are using the Pandora as just that sort of platform. You may want to take a look around the Developers' Corner section here - it might give some insight.

Hope this helps. :)
 
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Hey, thanks for answering so many of my questions. I'm not normally so lazy about this sort of thing, but it's nice to see the community here is so nice. Sometimes it seems like I spend every minute of every day researching things, and when I'm not doing that, I'll play video games for a little and then keep reading stuff. >_>


The Pandora is terrible to do any serious work on it unless you add a keyboard, mouse and screen. And then it is just a PC. Not sure what you really want to know?

Yeah, I know. It's pretty much a PC as far as that goes, it's not radically different from a PC, like, say, a TI-83+ or a DS. I guess I mostly meant the community. There's a strong emphasis on gaming and development, the units all have the same\similar hardware, etc. I figured this might be a good place to learn all of the basics, but then, I've been trying to learn the "basics" since before some of you may have even been born. >_>



It's got a nice front-end that supports the creation of profiles containing settings you've tuned for particular games or series, which is nice and easy to get to grips with. All of the Commander Keen titles that I have (I bought the Invasion of the Vorticons/Goodbye Galaxy! set via iD's website) run perfectly. I've gotten Jazz Jackrabbit CD running well with a specific bunch of settings, too (I wrote them down somewhere, so I should be able to find them if anyone wants them).

Oh, cool. That's nice to know. On my PC, it's pretty much jumping through hoops, running joy2key and having command-line shortcuts disabling joystick in DOS games so that the controls work nicely. So, as long as anything like that is easily done, that's great. I bought the ID Software pack on Steam (though, I already owned most of them on CD already, I didn't have some of the expansions, and it was on sale. Be wary, though. The games are fine, but it's all very barebones, there's no Quake-engine music, and Master Levels is devoid of Maximum Doom content).


It has no video memory, it feeds off the main RAM, which isn't actually such a big problem because everything sits in the OMAP. And don't try to compare different CPUs by their clock, it says hardly anything about how powerful they really are, especially if they have a completely different architecture.

I see. I'm not that technical a guy, so I can't really tell how that relates to my laptop, but the fact that it can run Q3A is a pretty good benchmark. I have no huge need to play anything from the last decade, and if it can run Q3A it can probably handle most things from 1999 and earlier, aside from maybe some emulation. I know not to compare by clockspeed too much. Sorry.




Megazeux? Seriously? .. I mean, seriously? Heh. Should I know you from the community?
I actually did port MZX to Pandora then completely forgot about it. I should probably release that.


No. I didn't release of lot of my stuff. I never got that great, especially since my computer had trouble with Megazeux at the time, and I was already well-versed in ZZT. I loved Megazeux though, it's much more powerful, it's still very much supported, and I was able to actually make some multiplayer stuff with it, which isn't really all that possible with ZZT. I uploaded a ZZT game back in the day called "Booze-O The Clown" which followed the story of a very depressed clown who drinks heavily at birthday parties, which starts you off after that all comes to an end, and he pretty much loses it and grinds up the birthday boy into hamburger.

You went through jail, purgatory, a post-apocalyptic McDonald's empire, a desert full of exploding squids, and the "utopian" fantasy of an even more deranged serial killer named "Mr. Bristles", who collects toothbrushes, kills people with toothbrushes, brushes his eleven and a half toes, except for the "angry one", and uses toothbrushes as a form of currency. The game ends when he gets shot by a police officer, meets "The Dark Lord Santa, creator and destroyer of all life", and is reminded of the reason he became a clown in the first place. You don't get to hear what the reason was, and the last thing you see is Booze-O stuffing several hundred bodies into a grocery store freezer and closing the door behind him. I have a very dark sense of humor. I haven't had any luck finding the game on any ZZT sites, unfortunately, and the original is probably on a more-than-likely corrupted floppy in the garage somewhere, maybe. -_-;

That's one of the few games I actually completed. About two years ago, after showing a friend ZZT and showing him how you make games in it, I started (and lost the files to) a game about an elementary school teacher who is thoroughly insulted by his students on a daily basis. One particular student says all sorts of horrible, unforgivably cruel things to him more than any other student, and pretty much decides to leave in the middle of class, after deciding the teacher is so worthless that there's no reason not to leave. In a fit of rage, the teacher gets up, walks to the front of his desk, grabs the glass apple from his desk, pelts it at the students head, rushes over to him, and pummels him to death, leaving him as an unrecognizable corpse. The students, obviously more than a little shocked, refrain from their insults and rush out the door as fast as they can. The teacher regains composure and says "Oh, God. What have I done?", and then you gain control of a teacher in some VERY hot water. I didn't do much after that, but my friend thought that little intro was awesome. Yeah, I like making mentally unstable characters.


As for Megazeux on Pandora, yes. You probably should release that. ;)
 
juggleclown said:
I uploaded a ZZT game back in the day....

cool story bro

[edit] Cool post bro. Warn level +1 for bumping just to troll a newbie. Be nice. -Gruso
 
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juggleclown said:
It has no video memory, it feeds off the main RAM, which isn't actually such a big problem because everything sits in the OMAP. And don't try to compare different CPUs by their clock, it says hardly anything about how powerful they really are, especially if they have a completely different architecture.

I see. I'm not that technical a guy, so I can't really tell how that relates to my laptop, but the fact that it can run Q3A is a pretty good benchmark. I have no huge need to play anything from the last decade, and if it can run Q3A it can probably handle most things from 1999 and earlier, aside from maybe some emulation. I know not to compare by clockspeed too much. Sorry.
Most commercial games won't even be running on the Pandora, since they're closed-source and x86.
Benchmarks are always useless. Let's just say that the Pandora is powerful enough to run Quake 3 and whatever homebrew games are made for it, and some UMPC stuff like web browsers.

You can't make some kind of number scale where Quake 3 takes 60 noodles of power, and Firefox takes 120, and Half-Life takes 21. You can't even run Half-Life on the Pandora, it's closed-source.

Therefore, please don't ever try to extrapolate from benchmarks. It does not work.
 
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Juggleclown, I saw you mentioned your laptop heats up/overheats rapidly. I recently found that many laptops that do this have lint built up INSIDE their cooling fan. Open your laptop (if you're lucky like mine you may have an access panel right over the fan.) and the fan should be in a metal enclosure with little tiny screws holding a cover on, while the unit is OFF remove the screws and you'll likely see a little blanket of fuzz over your vent on the inside of the housing.

Remove the fuzz, put the cover and screws back on, close up you laptop again and it should run cooler. I found this out while ripping apart my neighbors laptop he gave up on cause it would only boot and stay on for about 5 minutes, then around 20 seconds thereafter until you let it sit a long while. I found mine was doing the same buildup and it was causing my video card to error and crash due to the heat.

Hope that helps.
 
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