A Brief history of Roms and Bios Legality?

[skeezix]

I'm on my phone so can't reply in full. I -am- someone who has legally dealt with this, and who has professionally sold emus and such.


It varies by cou try - ie DMCA has good and bad parts for our American friends..


Companies will lie, in their self interest


The simple summary is - if you have license to distribute (you dont except for rare ex eptions like with Vectrex or Scott Adams games) yyou can, otherwise you can't. Downloading is similar but in essence .. Its not right but in practice its not risky. Illegal nonetheless in most countries


(have to be clear though that it varies by country .. In Canada its legal to download music due to evil big music screwing up our laws so bad..)


Emulation is Always legal, nomatter what anyone tells you they're wrong otherwise). Legality is always in the data or decryption


Some places are so vague they say no copying, whi h makes software illegal to use at all (copying from disk to ram being considered dupli ation )


Anyway --


Downloading bad, uploading very bad. Ripping from your own carts or store bought emu packs or store bought roms or GOG .. Awesome.


Jeffphone

 

[ZXDunny]

To be more clear... in the UK, it is not illegal to download a copy of any ROM off the internet - it is illegal to distribute what you've downloaded though. This means that an HTTP or FTP transfer would be ok, for your own personal use, but a torrent would not as the default behaviour for torrents is to distribute while you're downloading.


And no matter what any particular company says, your local laws always trump their EULA.


D.

 

[Blue Protoman]

Trust me, a huge percentage of gamers have downloaded ROMs from the internet before.

Guilty! :rolleyes:

 

[skeezix]

And again BP, lest we remind you the internet has a long memory.. incriminating yourself isn't so wise


(For the record, I'm one of those anal guy who does like to rip stuff like a madman, from carts and arcade boards and so on; a few people here have seen my pile of stuff


jeff

 

[DaMummy]

hmm well since ive given up on bothering Prometheus on posting more pics of her mega-man collection, maybe its about time i start bugging you about your hardware collection to post some pictures if youre ever not busy with your twins.....hmm i think i just answered my own question

 

[skeezix]

Twins are 2 months away; RL is busy in preparation (lots of construction around the place, hospital/doc/obgyn/pediatrician visits, that sort.) (Man, its going to be really freakling nuts in a couple months .. hopefully by January its settled down into a rhythm again again


jeff

 

[Natro]

Twins are 2 months away; RL is busy in preparation (lots of construction around the place, hospital/doc/obgyn/pediatrician visits, that sort.) (Man, its going to be really freakling nuts in a couple months .. hopefully by January its settled down into a rhythm again again


jeff

I hate to be the one to tell you this... but there really will not be any "settling down" once your babies have arrived... You will find that there is a constant flow of things you need to buy, get done, prepare for, clean up, etc. Sleep will become your #1 priority.

 

[Fzero]

All interesting stuff. About the UK law, where you can d/l roms over FTP/HTTP...


I guess you have to own the game, but can you legally d/l a rom and play on emu of a game you "once" had...and lost... If you had some proof of purchase, a UK store receipt for example?


Also makes sense to me that if you allowed to, d/l roms from one of the many sites out there would be quicker and easier, and cheaper, than buying a back-up-device and manually making your own backups

 

[PaulForey]

IANAL (or a

https://www.youtube.com/embed/kS_K61mEKdo?feature=oembed
Well said.


I really hope that you didn't actually destroy your Professor SF II, Halycon. It looks like a funky old device!


On a side note, that US law info that Link posted states that the 'backup' copy must be used only for archival purposes. Therefore I presume that if you create a ROM as your legal backup copy, the act of playing it means that it is no longer legal since you're not archiving it but using it. Please correct me if I've read this wrong.


My thought is this: If you have your ROM and you have your authentic original game cartridge with shiny gold sticker, could it not be said that the game cartridge is your archival copy? Chances are that you're far more likely to play the ROM on your beautiful Pandora than your old NES. This way, you've still got a single backup copy (the cartridge) - in case the ROM (or the SD card it's on) falls into an Icelandic volcano/gets set on fire in a van etc. - and you've still got a single copy that you use every day (the ROM).


Just ramblin' till midnight, here.

 

[Nintendo]

Very well said there, Paul. *claps*

 

[Halcyon]

I really hope that you didn't actually destroy your Professor SF II, Halycon. It looks like a funky old device!

Well lets say for "Legal" Reasons it is destroyed in a way that I can re assemble it when i am in a country that thinks I should be allowed to play games I own... Yeah it really is one of the coolest things i own.


So hypothetically speaking, lets say I make back ups of my games in a part of the world where Nintendo has muted legal power. Then the save batteries go bad on my games. Does that mean i'm not allowed to use the save feature anymore in my emulators?


Just screwing around not a real question there.

 

[CFWhitman]

On a side note, that US law info that Link posted states that the 'backup' copy must be used only for archival purposes. Therefore I presume that if you create a ROM as your legal backup copy, the act of playing it means that it is no longer legal since you're not archiving it but using it. Please correct me if I've read this wrong.

You haven't read it wrong. It's just not the whole story. The section of U.S. Copyright Law (Title 17) that is used as a basis for making copies of your game software to use in an emulator is not Section 117 (Computer Programs), but Section 107 (Fair Use). Where Section 117 is very specific about what it allows, Section 107 is fairly open ended. If you read Section 107, it does specifically mention "purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research" as being "Fair Use." These purposes don't cover copies made for emulation of a gaming system, so that doesn't sound promising. However, these are just examples of "fair use." The actual factors that determine "fair use" are these four criteria:


"(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;


"(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;


"(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and


"(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."


There is nothing about the second and third criteria that applies to emulation, since the nature of the copyrighted work is commercial, and the whole work is copied.


However, the purpose of creating copies of your own software to use in an emulator is not commercial in any way (criterion 1), and it does not affect the market for the copyrighted work, since you already bought it (criterion 4). Courts have held that uses such as time-shifting Television shows (like with a VCR or DVR), or viewing/using a copyrighted work in an alternate format are "fair use." Basically, any private use by an individual of their own copy of a copyrighted work that requires another copy be made in order to accomplish it is "fair use."


Edit: I also wanted to point out that according to the cited page, all music/media synchronization software (like, for example, iTunes) would be illegal. This is clearly not the case, so the page isn't accurate because it's not taking the whole story into account.

 

[Esn]

Trust me, a huge percentage of gamers have downloaded ROMs from the internet before.

Guilty! :rolleyes:

Copyright infringement today is like sexuality in the Victorian era.


It's everywhere, but you should never, ever, talk about it.

 

[Poem58]

Most of the copyright laws and the stances these companies have are all based around wanting to make as sure as possible that every human to watch, listen or in any possess any form of entertainment has paid for said privilege (Edit: even if you already have before). The parts I have always found ridiculous about it is that here in America they try to tell you that the simple ripping of a DVD to have a copy your kid can throw in the player without scratching the crap out of your disc you paid $25 bucks for is illegal. Copy a CD to mp3 for your player. They claim it's illegal. Photocopy part or all of a book, illegal. Play, copy. use a game, illegal. Go to the library and get a game, book, CD, DVD and watch it without paying, well that's OK.


the world is full of nonsensical inequalities. If my muffler goes bad, I can get a ticket, yet the guy who lives next door to me has a super loud motorcycle he loves to rev making everyone for half a mile have to listen to it, and he doesn't have to have a muffler. Despite the fact he is already 10 times louder than my car could be without one.


Don't wear a seatbelt here, well now they can pull you over and ticket you for that too, with no other reason, but he doesn't wear a helmet, and that's fine. They even recently enacted a law in Ohio where you can get a ticket if you do not have your headlights on when the weather requires you to use your windshield wipers. So make sure if you can't see that you take the time to switch your lights on BEFORE you clear your windshield of water, or you will be fined.


Let's face it anymore, you can be rung up for the dumbest of things. So just use your head and avoid doing anything that points the finger in your direction, and you'll be just fine.


I wish the world made more sense, then things would be so much more clear cut and easy to understand. When it comes to games, music, movies or anything someone can make a buck on, just figure if it involves doing something that isn't paying them again, they will consider it illegal, and again you will be fine.

 

[kojack]

In australian copyright law, you are allowed to make one backup, as long as:


- no copy protection bypass is needed (if the backup needs a no-cd crack, it's illegal)


- the backup isn't made from an infringing copy (you can't download it, you must make the backup from your original)


- only programs are backed up, not images, music or text.


I'm not sure if a game which contained no graphics, audio or text would really be worth backing up.

 

[CFWhitman]

In australian copyright law, you are allowed to make one backup, as long as:


- no copy protection bypass is needed (if the backup needs a no-cd crack, it's illegal)

That would appear to be the case in the U.S. also, except for the recent Court of Appeals decision I mentioned in an earlier post. That decision is based on the argument that defeating copy protection is only illegal if you do it to violate copyright.

- the backup isn't made from an infringing copy (you can't download it, you must make the backup from your original)

That's true in the U.S. as well, although if you have a legal copy, how do you tell if the backup is from it or from somewhere else, and who really cares? The real purpose of this provision is to make it clear that no original means each and every copy is an infringement.

- only programs are backed up, not images, music or text.


I'm not sure if a game which contained no graphics, audio or text would really be worth backing up.

So media management software like iTunes is illegal in Australia? That's what such a provision would mean by itself.

 

[kojack]

So media management software like iTunes is illegal in Australia? That's what such a provision would mean by itself.

That's covered by a different area. The ones I mentioned were for computer software.


For music on it's own, it's better. Australians are allowed to backup or transcode (rip a cd to pc, ipod, etc) any music we own, including making a copy to play in a car, as long as we do it our selves, don't give it out, and don't copy from an illegal version. We can also lend it to a family member or someone we live with. Downloaded music files are subject to the license of the purchase, so whatever itunes says you can do with your purchased music is what you must stick to, the aus backup permissions don't supersede it.


This only started in 2006, before then the laws were much stricter.

 

[Linopoly]

Trust me, a huge percentage of gamers have downloaded ROMs from the internet before.

Guilty! :rolleyes:

Copyright infringement today is like sexuality in the Victorian era.


It's everywhere, but you should never, ever, talk about it.

This is an awesomely quotable quote.


Another thing that troubles me is people who actually worry about whether their private use of stuff they've purchased infringes on the owner's copyrights. For crying out loud, you paid for it already, and even if it does infringe, don't let that limit you, and don't let yourself be forced into paying for it again, even if the price has come down over time. Just because something is enshrined in law doesn't mean it's right: for example, the can get away with evading all taxes using loopholes that are perfectly legal, but hopefully it is obvious that despite being legal, this is still morally wrong to most people. The law should be irrelevant when trying to answer moral questions.