Roms?

[jbrodack]

from http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#roms

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet. "

downloading roms is basically always illegal. its doubtful you would ever get arrested for it though. some of the stuff in this thread blows my mind. the pandora forums don't seem to be a source of much intelligence or reason but mostly wild speculation.

 

[plopperz]

Haven't we already had this argument a billion times already?

 

[chad78]

Nothing is illegal if you don't get caught. Immoral, evil? perhaps. Not-socially-acceptable? I'm sure. But not illegal.

Therefore - the only illegal ROMs are the ones the Feds know about - and that violate a law.

 

[gaterooze]

Nothing is illegal if you don't get caught. Immoral, evil? perhaps. Not-socially-acceptable? I'm sure. But not illegal.

Well, no. If it violates a law then it is illegal, getting caught doesn't factor into it. By that logic I could murder someone out in the woods and it isn't illegal

But I'm with you, something that is "theoretically" illegal is not a big concern in practice since there is unlikely to be any enforcement (for an individual), morality aside.

 

[Chip]

Haven't we already had this argument a billion times already?

At least a billion. This is still the best answer you're going to get:

Here's the unfortunate truth: The law is convoluted and unclear. In the incredibly unlikely event that you are ever sued for possession of SNES ROMs or something similar, the decision could easily go either way based on the skill of the lawyers involved and the disposition of the judge.

There is no right answer.

 

[CyruzDraxs]

Digital copyright laws are layered upon several other copyright laws that are layered upon yet more copyright laws--all of which conflict in various ways with each other. Technically speaking; most digital copyright laws are illegal and violate personal freedoms laws in the first place. Because of laws disabling the ability to revoke a law once it is put in place it has become nearly impossible to introduce new laws that are actually legal--especially relating to technology related things like digital piracy.

Because of prior laws it's actually impossible to make digital formats of any purpose illegal since they are so open to interpretation. Who's to say one mass of bits and bytes can't be something else? For example; if one was to rename an mp3 extension to jpg it now displays as an image and is no longer an audio file--potentially an identical combination of bits and bytes could mean two totally different things depending on how it is interpreted.

 

[Tom`]

Here's the unfortunate truth: The law is convoluted and unclear. In the incredibly unlikely event that you are ever sued for possession of SNES ROMs or something similar, the decision could easily go either way based on the skill of the lawyers involved and the disposition of the judge.

There is no right answer.

Two footnotes:
1. if you have a lot of money and/or are a large corporation, you are likely to win.

and

2. All of this applies in the USA and a few other countries. In many (most?) other areas, like much of Europe, there is no DMCA equivalent...

 

[Squidge]

Did cartridges come with EULA's back then? I would imagine so, but can't remember.

 

[yosh64]

hey

Firstly I think this thread has gone off track, and I think Im a Cat's questions have been answered many times already.

QUOTE

Because of prior laws it's actually impossible to make digital formats of any purpose illegal since they are so open to interpretation. Who's to say one mass of bits and bytes can't be something else? For example; if one was to rename an mp3 extension to jpg it now displays as an image and is no longer an audio file--potentially an identical combination of bits and bytes could mean two totally different things depending on how it is interpreted.


This makes no sense to me. Firstly the filename has nothing todo with anything, each file usually has some sort of header that an application uses to identify if it's the correct file type and whatever else. Also, there are many ways to determine if someone has copied data, such as by different forms of visual or aural observation, or just simply looking for matches in bytes. I mean, if hundreds or thousands of bytes match then it's obvious it has been copied.

Bah, it's all pretty simple really...

As far as I know anything you do is automatically copyrighted, no matter what it is and if anyone copies it without your permission then it's illegal.

Anyhows for the most part just use common sense.

cyas

 

[CatSwipe]

I'm here inquiring as to the legality of downloading roms of games which I own. If I own say, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, can I download it for an emulator? Do the same rules apply to SNES, NES, N64, and Sega Genesis? Hope I posted this in the correct area.

Also, where can I purchase the cards that the Pandora will use?

=(^_^)=

This is what Nintendo says:
QUOTE
Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.


Read everything at http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

 

[CyruzDraxs]

This makes no sense to me. Firstly the filename has nothing todo with anything, each file usually has some sort of header that an application uses to identify if it's the correct file type and whatever else.

It was just an example--theoretically an image could be made that would have the same binary composition as an mp3 file, so you technically have a bit-for-bit copy of that file, you are just loading it differently. Also; your entire hard drive is one big long stream of bits. Where a file starts and ends is also open to interpretation. There is just too many unclear factors to specifically make digital reproduction illegal.

That having been said, it's fairly clear how morally correct it is, and in a court case morality would likely be used as a fall back against you. If they have proof that you actually intended on copying that file that they are accusing you of pirating they could win, but that's not easy to prove.

Another interesting note; digital copyright laws still define piracy as theft which, by definition, implies the removal of the file from someone's possession, which is technically impossible.

 

[Tashi]

This is what Nintendo says:
QUOTE
Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.


Read everything at http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp


Fortunately wrong! I`d depends on the law in every country.

 

[quadomatic]

I see it like this. There are so many sites that have TONS of roms on their sites available for download. Not over bittorrent, but direct download. And yet, no one bothers to take them down. There's some organization that protects certain games and so those roms aren't available from said sites, but still. I highly doubt you'll ever get in trouble for possession of roms.

 

[yosh64]

hey

CyruzDraxs, I can see where you are coming from but I don't think your statement or whatever is correct. But yea, it makes no sense to me especially when you are talking about specific file formats, as each file format is defined by its format, and so each has it's own format/specifications.

theoretically an image could be made that would have the same binary composition as an mp3 file

And no, theoretically an image could not be made that would have the same binary composition as an mp3 file, but you cannot make an mp3 file that has the same binary composition as any image, such as an image that displays a photograph, as the data must conform to the mp3 file format . Simply put, a bitmap file has it's own format/specifications, and so to an mp3 file, and so the software would get errors and couldn't possibly read an mp3 with the binary composition of a bitmap. Hmm, and even at the lowest level of RAW data, for example even RAW audio sample data cannot always be used to display an image, as when dealing with RAW bitmap/pixel data, to produce a complete image you firstly need to know the image width, height and the bits per pixel and all these properties define the number of bytes that make up the image (or maybe you could figure the above properties based on the number of bytes, which may not always be possible), and obviously the number of bytes for audio sample data might not always fullfil this requirement. Hmm, actually you could display an image from any string of data, but not always a complete image. BUT, this only applies to RAW data and not data of specific file formats.

Anyhows I hope this makes some sense.

cya

 

[God Ginrai]

I see it like this. There are so many sites that have TONS of roms on their sites available for download. Not over bittorrent, but direct download. And yet, no one bothers to take them down. There's some organization that protects certain games and so those roms aren't available from said sites, but still. I highly doubt you'll ever get in trouble for possession of roms.

One of my favorite ROM sites got taken down, so it's not that unlikely.

-God Ginrai

 

[Lord_Doku]

I love dutch legal system

Here we can download whatever the F we want AS LONG AS WE USE WHAT WE DOWNLOAD FOR OURSELVES. problem is uploading though, that aint allowed so its kinda weird.........yeah....

 

[God Ginrai]

I love dutch legal system

Here we can download whatever the F we want AS LONG AS WE USE WHAT WE DOWNLOAD FOR OURSELVES. problem is uploading though, that aint allowed so its kinda weird.........yeah....

Which means that although you can't get in trouble for downloading ROMs, if your suppliers get caught, you don't have a supply of ROMs anymore.

-God Ginrai

 

[quadomatic]

I love dutch legal system

Here we can download whatever the F we want AS LONG AS WE USE WHAT WE DOWNLOAD FOR OURSELVES. problem is uploading though, that aint allowed so its kinda weird.........yeah....

Which means that although you can't get in trouble for downloading ROMs, if your suppliers get caught, you don't have a supply of ROMs anymore.

-God Ginrai


Meh, its better than any other country. If you're worried about losing suppliers use torrents.

 

[God Ginrai]

I love dutch legal system

Here we can download whatever the F we want AS LONG AS WE USE WHAT WE DOWNLOAD FOR OURSELVES. problem is uploading though, that aint allowed so its kinda weird.........yeah....

Which means that although you can't get in trouble for downloading ROMs, if your suppliers get caught, you don't have a supply of ROMs anymore.

-God Ginrai


Meh, its better than any other country. If you're worried about losing suppliers use torrents.


Nah, because torrents would be uploading as well, which means that you could be prosecuted under those dutch laws.

-God Ginrai

 

[hisaki]

I love dutch legal system

Here we can download whatever the F we want AS LONG AS WE USE WHAT WE DOWNLOAD FOR OURSELVES. problem is uploading though, that aint allowed so its kinda weird.........yeah....

Unfortunately that might no longer be the case:
http://www.nisnews.nl/public/280608_1.htm

Although this might just be one interpretation of the law, maybe other judges don't share it. I think roms are illegal to download though, as this "home copy levy" doesn't cover software.