Xgp Alternatives

[MWeston]

I'm curious how committed people are to buying from Gamepark or are we all just looking for the best new system we can possibly find for homebrew/emulation and even some commercial games if possible?

Let's say a new company put out a gaming system that had much better specs than the XGP in any form that has already been considered on this message board and the selling prices were identical. Would you buy it or would you play it safe?

Just an extra note: the 3D components are identical using the PowerVR MX Lite hardware at around 1M triangles/sec.

 

[___]

I would try to buy the one with better specs, also I assume because I don`t trust GamePark. I think the customer support will be shit and the handheld will die because of release issues... but anyway, I have got a gp2x, I am fine

 

[Epicenter]

I'd go with whatever option provided the best hardware at the best price but still allowed homebrew software .. and supported a Linux environment to actually run software in. I think GP will do the right thing and make the majority of the community's desired changes-- e.g. 4:3 aspect ratio, D-Pad and perhaps the S3C2460 instead of VRender-3D. But if they didn't, and I could still bring my existing GP2X works easily over to this new machine (e.g. Linux, SDL) I'd be fine with that too.

A big thing is, I need to know other people intend to get one, or what is the point of developing for it? With GP, there's the loyalty of the GP32/GP2X community.

Is this some hypothetical thing, or an actual planned machine? (It sounds TI OMAP2-based.. )

EDIT: Ah, I see now after reading through your post history; you intend to build some sort of ARM11-based console ... well, if you did go that route, and honestly think you could fit that fancy hardware into such a small price margin, I'd love to see it. Probably the best you could do, in my opinion, is an OMAP2-based machine with ARM11 at a decent clockrate (that'd provide integrated FPU/Vector processing capability..) OpenGL-ES compatible 2D/3D acceleration (PowerVR MBX Lite/RS would be fine), an acceptable amount of memory (ideally 96MB+ of Mobile DDR), a high-quality, decent-sized 4:3 display, a D-pad and a reasonably compact design. If it ran Linux and supported SDL I'd port Stargazer to it, and it'd be extremely easy ...

I wonder though, what sort of company, if any, do you belong to? What are your connections, how would you get this to sell? GP32/GP2X have a fan following, which is why we know GP will be able to move a significant quantity of XGP units. But with such expensive SoCs you'd need, and not any real following to build on, I wonder how you'd manage to turn a profit without charging a fortune per unit. If anything a cheaper comprimise on system components may be better to get on your feet, at least.

 

[pkostrze]

I love my GP2X and feel that there was a pretty good reason GPH spun off from Game Park. I'm afraid of the XGP being released as "too little, too late", also, from the little I've read about it, it seems that the XGP will suffer from the problems smaller companies have but have the added issues of a closed source OS/ firmware. It seems to me that the XGP will have the problems the GP2X had/has but without the MASSIVE online community for solutions and also have similar problems to the PSP with it's firmware Nazi-isms but without the large catalog of commercial releases. Personally, I'm satisfied with the GP2X and for those that aren't... you're probably a PSP person and should just stick with the easy, works out-of-the-box system. Seriously, GP2X users expect different things from a PEP than the PSP crowd... it's all about the gaming experience and the ability to hack/mod/tweak/code to our hearts content.

If you still think Infocom text-only games have playability or that the graphics in Maniac Mansion are fine for what they are - stick with the GP2X... if you MUST have 3D graphics and think GTA is the epitome' of good gaming - buy a PSP or an XGP and be happy with what ever the industry hands you.

On the other hand, if GPH released a hyped-up system along the lines of a GP3X with the options discussed ad naseum in the forums for a similar price and with the same open platform and community... I'd be 100% behind it.

Anyway, that's my two cents... agree or don't agree, it's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[BobBorakovitz]

I love my GP2X and feel that there was a pretty good reason GPH spun off from Game Park. I'm afraid of the XGP being released as "too little, too late", also, from the little I've read about it, it seems that the XGP will suffer from the problems smaller companies have but have the added issues of a closed source OS/ firmware. It seems to me that the XGP will have the problems the GP2X had/has but without the MASSIVE online community for solutions and also have similar problems to the PSP with it's firmware Nazi-isms but without the large catalog of commercial releases. Personally, I'm satisfied with the GP2X and for those that aren't... you're probably a PSP person and should just stick with the easy, works out-of-the-box system. Seriously, GP2X users expect different things from a PEP than the PSP crowd... it's all about the gaming experience and the ability to hack/mod/tweak/code to our hearts content.

If you still think Infocom text-only games have playability or that the graphics in Maniac Mansion are fine for what they are - stick with the GP2X... if you MUST have 3D graphics and think GTA is the epitome' of good gaming - buy a PSP or an XGP and be happy with what ever the industry hands you.

On the other hand, if GPH released a hyped-up system along the lines of a GP3X with the options discussed ad naseum in the forums for a similar price and with the same open platform and community... I'd be 100% behind it.

Anyway, that's my two cents... agree or don't agree, it's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

agreed.

 

[Mr_Munk]

I think that my response might be typical of the average potential customer, which is:

I'd wait and see what the user-base and software development was like before buying an unknown system; similarly for the XGP I would want to know it was open-source and delivered on it's performance promises.

 

[woogal]

I don't understand this strange obsession with things needing to be open source. As long as there's a freely available sdk does it really matter.

 

[Epicenter]

I don't understand this strange obsession with things needing to be open source. As long as there's a freely available sdk does it really matter.

That's pretty much where I am coming from; as long as the default firmware isn't garbage that has to be fixed by the community.

So far GPH hasn't impressed me. The GP2X is a good machine on the merits of the MMSP2 chipset inside it alone-- GPH did a lot of damage to its potential in their design of the rest of the unit. About all they added was a few auxillerary components, the controls, screen, speakers and case. Mostly accessories to the most impotant part, the core hardware. But the kind of mistakes they made, and the people in charge's apparent unwillingness to fix them for whatever reason, compared with GP's open attitude and willingness to take the time necessary to make sure their customers are happy makes me want to give them a chance to accomplish what GPH should've.

I'm not saying the GP2X is a bad machine, I still recommend it to people, especially people not as picky as me. But there is nothing wrong with looking forward.

 

[Captainbubby]

Essentially, to me it's all about features and support. I"ve held off on getting a Gp2x in the hopes that the XGP will deliver, I had almost caved in and bought a 2x because I'd heard nothing regarding the XGP and their homepage hasn't been updated since March or thereabouts.

The whole SDK thing with GPH (and I know there were outside circumstances that affected that too) as well as the near useless 2nd processesor did bother me somewhat.

 

[MWeston]

I'd go with whatever option provided the best hardware at the best price but still allowed homebrew software .. and supported a Linux environment to actually run software in. I think GP will do the right thing and make the majority of the community's desired changes-- e.g. 4:3 aspect ratio, D-Pad and perhaps the S3C2460 instead of VRender-3D. But if they didn't, and I could still bring my existing GP2X works easily over to this new machine (e.g. Linux, SDL) I'd be fine with that too.

A big thing is, I need to know other people intend to get one, or what is the point of developing for it? With GP, there's the loyalty of the GP32/GP2X community.

Is this some hypothetical thing, or an actual planned machine? (It sounds TI OMAP2-based.. )

EDIT: Ah, I see now after reading through your post history; you intend to build some sort of ARM11-based console ... well, if you did go that route, and honestly think you could fit that fancy hardware into such a small price margin, I'd love to see it. Probably the best you could do, in my opinion, is an OMAP2-based machine with ARM11 at a decent clockrate (that'd provide integrated FPU/Vector processing capability..) OpenGL-ES compatible 2D/3D acceleration (PowerVR MBX Lite/RS would be fine), an acceptable amount of memory (ideally 96MB+ of Mobile DDR), a high-quality, decent-sized 4:3 display, a D-pad and a reasonably compact design. If it ran Linux and supported SDL I'd port Stargazer to it, and it'd be extremely easy ...

I wonder though, what sort of company, if any, do you belong to? What are your connections, how would you get this to sell? GP32/GP2X have a fan following, which is why we know GP will be able to move a significant quantity of XGP units. But with such expensive SoCs you'd need, and not any real following to build on, I wonder how you'd manage to turn a profit without charging a fortune per unit. If anything a cheaper comprimise on system components may be better to get on your feet, at least.

You raise the same great questions that I ask myself everytime I consider this new system. I'm just an individual interested in creating the best hardware possible. Profits would be low on the first 1000 units and mostly that would be just to get people interested and show what the capabilities of the system are. Any new system involves "taking the plunge" when it comes to buying it because you never know but I want to port Linux to the system and take advantage of SDL, OpenGL-ES, and all the drivers already available with this OS. For this poll, let's just say that everything worked out and the system was available for sale.

I really like TI's OMAP ARM11 chips, but they won't sell them to anyone not making things like smartphones in really high volumes! I am using the Freescale i.MX31 at 532MHz and scalable up to 665MHz in the future. I like it because it truly is a SOC with three USB ports, dual SD card controllers, LCD controller, 3D, etc.

The best part is that Motorola actually provided me with the part and they even have Linux 2.6.16 ported to their evaluation board that I can modify.

I really enjoy designing these kinds of things and my description of my system is still vague because I'd rather not break it all down until the hardware is built. I admit that my biggest goal with this device is for emulation. I plan on emulating every console up to the N64 and every handheld up to the Nintendo DS. This doesn't rule out homebrew because development is really no different than it is on the GP2X. Even commercial games could be ported with very little effort (or some effort if the game can be enhanced by the 3D hardware). I don't think this system could survive if existing software took another year after launch to get running properly!

It has always been my opinion that you can't get anywhere without a prototype even if you are not sure you will ever make a dime on the project. I started developing portable MP3 players back in 1998 before there really were any players out there. I designed a Wi-fi based portable MP3 player a few years ago before anything had been introduced to the market. It let you share music with people around you and even talk to them or text message them through the device. I just never knew if I could mass produce anything and make money on it. Based on the success of the Gremlin and the Aireo, I may have dodged a bullet on that one Designing my own game system has always been top on my list and I would like to give this project some serious consideration. I actually have almost all of the parts now. All that I need now is a video encoder chip and a power management part so it isn't like I am pulling impossible ideas out of my ass!

Oh one other thing is that my current design doesn't build WiFi into the device because of the ability to have up to three USB host ports. This is something that will stay different than the XGP unless it is an absolute must have but it seems like most people around here prefer to pay for wireless if they want it and not be forced into it otherwise. My design sticks with 3 AA CHANGEABLE batteries instead of a built in Lithium Ion battery as well.

 

[mdinire]

I'm guna keep my GP2X untill another portable device proves to be more superior than it..

When/If the GP2X's minor faults are fixed there isn't really more you could ask for from it.. except perfect psx and n64 emulation, which is probably impossible

 

[tritt_conner]

If you chose the second option, you might as well buy a UMPC.

It's really that simple.

 

[OMars]

Hey MWeston, it's nice to hear from you again. I hope everything is going well, man I had that same idea for an mp3 player around the same time! Was your idea for the mp3 player small(something like the iriver u10)too?

Also if you want to reduce costs then I would suggest having a screen with a smaller resolution. Nobody has tried making a system using an existing system's shell. I think somebody(maybe you)should try something like that. A gp32 type system in a gbasp shell would be awesome! Good luck!

 

[MWeston]

If you chose the second option, you might as well buy a UMPC.

It's really that simple.

Why would you say that? It's the same size as the XGP and has lots of buttons that match existing game systems that it will emulate. It runs on AA batteries and doesn't draw 5W of energy requiring a giant Lithium Ion battery. A PDA at 624MHz could play lots of games on it's big screen, but would you really want to? It's just not set up for that sort of thing. This is a GAME machine. Don't those things cost about $800 also? I think $300 makes much more sense.


not that you aren't entitled to your opinion......

 

[rei_yano]

Oh one other thing is that my current design doesn't build WiFi into the device because of the ability to have up to three USB host ports. This is something that will stay different than the XGP unless it is an absolute must have but it seems like most people around here prefer to pay for wireless if they want it and not be forced into it otherwise. My design sticks with 3 AA CHANGEABLE batteries instead of a built in Lithium Ion battery as well.

hell yeah man that sounds exciting. 3 double As and 3 usb ports. please keep us updated!

Why would you say that? It's the same size as the XGP and has lots of buttons that match existing game systems that it will emulate. It runs on AA batteries and doesn't draw 5W of energy requiring a giant Lithium Ion battery. A PDA at 624MHz could play lots of games on it's big screen, but would you really want to? It's just not set up for that sort of thing. This is a GAME machine. Don't those things cost about $800 also? I think $300 makes much more sense.


not that you aren't entitled to your opinion......

300 bucks sounds great. Id buy it.

 

[OMars]

Can you tell us what size of a gagdet we are looking at here? :huh:

I have a couple new designs if you want to look at them...

 

[MWeston]

Hey Omar. I'm thinking it would be just slightly bigger than the GP2X. I really want to have at least one analog stick, but ideally, I want two in order to fully emulate the PSX. I don't know how many games make full use of both sticks. Anyone know how often it is used?

The LCD is 3.5" diagonally just like the GP2X, but the resolution is hardware selectable between 640x480 and 320x240 so the benefit is in the pixels. I found a manufacturer that sells these displays for "cheap". They are still much more than a 320x240 only display, but they are not as rediculously priced as some might think (at least not in high volume). It is a high quality display too.

You can send me more pictures if you would like. I don't mind having a look

 

[sehs33]

I really want to have at least one analog stick, but ideally, I want two in order to fully emulate the PSX. I don't know how many games make full use of both sticks. Anyone know how often it is used?

The only game that required using the anlogue sticks was sim-copter, and it was so annoying.

I can't remember any game that played with a stick better than it played with the d-pad, and honestly, I don't remember any of my friends getting excited over these sticks (we usually used the analogue on light to make sure the joypad was well connected )

 

[rei_yano]

I can't remember any game that played with a stick better than it played with the d-pad, and honestly, I don't remember any of my friends getting excited over these sticks (we usually used the analogue on light to make sure the joypad was well connected )

yeah I dont think the analog was really neccesary for the ps1. I dont see the point of a analog stick. if any just one. dpad is the most important.

 

[OMars]

Hey Omar. I'm thinking it would be just slightly bigger than the GP2X. I really want to have at least one analog stick, but ideally, I want two in order to fully emulate the PSX. I don't know how many games make full use of both sticks. Anyone know how often it is used?

The LCD is 3.5" diagonally just like the GP2X, but the resolution is hardware selectable between 640x480 and 320x240 so the benefit is in the pixels. I found a manufacturer that sells these displays for "cheap". They are still much more than a 320x240 only display, but they are not as rediculously priced as some might think (at least not in high volume). It is a high quality display too.

You can send me more pictures if you would like. I don't mind having a look

Hey, I think it would only need one analog(for shooters)but I will be sure to include a two analog version in one of my scans. It's great to hear about the screen. The price isn't to bad either if it is going to be the emulating/homebrew machine. This is like a small computer! But I would rather buy this than a UMPC. Good luck and I hope to get you the scans soon!