Windows 7 For Arm?

[DigitalWings]

CODE
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/402/1051402/olpc-urges-microsoft-windows-arm\


Interesting, if microsoft does actually give in to there request. Then would it be possible for windows 7 to run on pandora, are there other hardware hurdles?


NOTE: I don't actually want windows on my pandora, it would make it slow and unusable for many reason. none the less it would be an interesting project if only to prove it can be done. But that all relies on microsoft porting 7 to the arm.

 

[WizardStan]

No, and here's why.
OLPC seems to be arguing that Windows on ARM will give access to the multitude of programs already available for Windows. As we should all know by now, that's a total crock.
While the talking heads involved with OLPC marketing might not have a clue, the folks at Microsoft (for all their cack ups) are not stupid. They know as well as we do that Windows on ARM will require that programs be compiled twice, they split their market, it becomes a logistics nightmare. Explaining the difference between Windows and Windows CE is fairly simple; at the least, if some twit complains they can't run their game on Windows CE, help desk can just say "Windows CE is a very stripped down version meant for portables, so it doesn't have what's needed to run your game." Smaller, missing features, those are things people can understand.
Explain to John Everyman why the full featured Windows 7-ARM, which looks and behaves in every way exactly like Windows 7-x86, can't run that game they just bought. You talk about different processors and their eyes glaze over, and their response is consistently "but it's Windows. It says it's for Windows. This is Windows. It's the exact same!"

"Why Stan, it sounds like you've been through a similar experience before."
Yes, yes I have. I hate people so very much sometimes.

On the other hand, this could just be a publicity stunt, pure and simple.
Public outcry: "We want to run our existing programs, we need Windows!"
OLPC: "Hey Microsoft! Give us Windows!"
MS: "What? That's stupid! For all these many reasons!"
OLPC: "We tried, Microsoft won't do it""
Public outcry: "BOO Microsoft!"
I hate people sometimes.

 

[Phawx]

I think Microsoft should develop an OS from the ground up. Or Fork a Linux build

 

[gp2.eXe]

Hmmm...
QUOTE
Define Optimism:

"Like many, we are urging Microsoft to make Windows – not Windows Mobile – available on the ARM. This is a complex question for them," said OLPC head honcho Nicholas Negroponte.

... doesn't that just leave you laughing so hard you can't breath?

pretty please microsoft? pleeeeaaaase!

Bet my house it doesn't happen.
posted by : Nathan, 13 March 2009

Even in the remote case that MS would agree to do it, what use could come of that? And... then again i'm reminded of something Chip said:
QUOTE
As has been pointed out in the FAQ and in probably no less than two dozen threads on these forums, The Pandora cannot run Windows. Windows is compiled for an x86 processor, and the Pandora uses an ARM processor.

Maybe it sounds negative, but that's how it seems.

 

[Butterman]

I think Microsoft should develop an OS from the ground up. Or Fork a Linux build

Why?

Hmmm...
QUOTE
Define Optimism:

"Like many, we are urging Microsoft to make Windows – not Windows Mobile – available on the ARM. This is a complex question for them," said OLPC head honcho Nicholas Negroponte.

... doesn't that just leave you laughing so hard you can't breath?

pretty please microsoft? pleeeeaaaase!

Bet my house it doesn't happen.
posted by : Nathan, 13 March 2009

Even in the remote case that MS would agree to do it, what use could come of that? And... then again i'm reminded of something Chip said:
QUOTE
As has been pointed out in the FAQ and in probably no less than two dozen threads on these forums, The Pandora cannot run Windows. Windows is compiled for an x86 processor, and the Pandora uses an ARM processor.

Maybe it sounds negative, but that's how it seems.

No... If they did agree it would work, OLPC is ARM....

 

[CCmachined]

Linux with Open Source Apps > Windows with no x86 software

open source portability rules. Windows on ARM is pointless to me, learning Linux and then being with your familiar apps is a much better idea IMO.

try if you like, but it's pretty much pointless.

 

[sindbad]

Why? If you recompile stuff anyway, you might as well use winelib.

 

[gp2.eXe]

No... If they did agree it would work, OLPC is ARM....

Yes indeed it would work, but they agreeing is a very remote possibility, no?

 

[Vorporeal]

I think Microsoft should develop an OS from the ground up. Or Fork a Linux build

Yeah, they developed something from the ground up and named it Vista. Didn't do them much good though.

 

[Phawx]

Butterman,

Don't get me wrong. I am a Windows Admin. I enjoy windows for all the programs that it has and I understand it pretty well.

But they have SO MUCH legacy crap they have to keep it mind that it's hurting them. And the other problem is I think Linux handles older Windows programs better than Windows Vista or 7.

Looking at Windows, one of the major things MS has is DirectX. It's basically the only PC platform you can play PC games on. Give Wine enough time and if it can wrap most newer games, kids will elect to install Linux on their machine. It's already possible to use Wine with WoW on Linux.

I just think that it might be time to make a fresh start. Forget all the Legacy crap and just make a very lean and mean OS. But they would have to heavily market it so that people knew their apps may not work.

But is that Microsoft's only strength? It already works with stuff? I don't know. Personally, I have been really impressed with the Xbox 360 Software wise. There are some things that need to be improved, but things like global defaults, messaging, party system and easy UI make me believe MS could make an unbelievable OS.

@Vorporeal

Yea, I should have clarified. I meant specifically the legacy stuff. Vista still caters to it. Vista SP1 is using Windows kernal 6.0. What I mean is to start from complete scratch.

 

[DigitalWings]

No, and here's why.
...
I hate people sometimes.

Nice rant but you missed the question, asked that IF windows DID it, would it run on pandora

No... If they did agree it would work, OLPC is ARM....

Interesting, what about the other chips on the Pandora, graphics ect, they would need windows driver right? Could the linux ones be ported or at least used for reference to make some?

NOTE: Remember Topic is IF windows if ported, what would need to be done?

 

[Butterman]

I think Microsoft should develop an OS from the ground up. Or Fork a Linux build

Yeah, they developed something from the ground up and named it Vista. Didn't do them much good though.


I think Vista was based off Windows Server.

Butterman,

Don't get me wrong. I am a Windows Admin. I enjoy windows for all the programs that it has and I understand it pretty well.

But they have SO MUCH legacy crap they have to keep it mind that it's hurting them. And the other problem is I think Linux handles older Windows programs better than Windows Vista or 7.

Looking at Windows, one of the major things MS has is DirectX. It's basically the only PC platform you can play PC games on. Give Wine enough time and if it can wrap most newer games, kids will elect to install Linux on their machine. It's already possible to use Wine with WoW on Linux.

I just think that it might be time to make a fresh start. Forget all the Legacy crap and just make a very lean and mean OS. But they would have to heavily market it so that people knew their apps may not work.

But is that Microsoft's only strength? It already works with stuff? I don't know. Personally, I have been really impressed with the Xbox 360 Software wise. There are some things that need to be improved, but things like global defaults, messaging, party system and easy UI make me believe MS could make an unbelievable OS.

But they won't, it just dosen't make sense financially for reasons that you state. I don't know what's wrong with the legacy stuff? I like being able to run ~10 year old games and programs I have laying about. If you say it's causing bloat, buy a new PC, Vista x64 runs amazingly on my year old ~£450 PC, most of us here make that much in a month; even after tax, food and rent.

 

[Phawx]

Yea, I am running a q6600 with 8GB of ram and Vista SP1 64-bit. (Which I paid $700 USD for about 16 months ago now) I enjoy my system. And I like Windows.

But an answer to bloat sometimes isnt to throw more horsepower at it.

Microsoft needs to plan out a perfect base off of which to build on top of. Linux is by far more versatile in terms of adapting to machines that can only handle so much load. (Though Windows 7 looks to have a much improved Add/Remove Programs. Now if Microsoft made a Windows MarketPlace like synaptic package manager, things would be very nice)

 

[Butterman]

Exactly, and that's the point of Windows 7. Have you run the beta? I ran it on a legacy testing PC I have laying about that ran Vista too slow to use. It runs Win 7 perfectly.

 

[Phawx]

I have heard really good things about Windows 7. But it's only Windows Kernal 6.1. If Microsoft can successfully pull off rebuilding the White House without touching the exterior, than that would be awesome.

But Vista has taught us that people like you and I can use Vista and get around whatever quirks may come, but for others the problem is inescapable.

This weekend, my friend was trying to install Windows Vista and it loads, but just before it will start formatting and installing, it gives an error saying that he needs drivers for his CD drive, Even though its already READING from it.

How is a regular person supposed to deal with this?

Or the file transfer bug, when transferring large files over a local network would just stall out. I used teracopy to get around it, because the Hotfix didn't work.

Like I said, IF MS can pull off Windows 7 perfectly and than lead that way from there on. Than good. But Vista has shown me the huge undertaking it is for them to keep the core they have and try to build on it.

 

[WizardStan]

Nice rant but you missed the question, asked that IF windows DID it, would it run on pandora

You are correct, sir. I failed to answer the theoretical question by getting caught up in proving the theory wrong.
But let's assume they port Windows 7 to ARM. COULD it run on Pandora? Probably; in fact, I'll go out and say yes, it will "work" for some definition of work. It would need hardware drivers, probably written from scratch. Certain modules (I'm thinking memory and disk management) would probably need to be shoehorned in some way to get them to work with the Pandora's specific architecture. So to answer your question, yes, it could work, but it would require effort. Possibly a lot of effort, but it could work eventually.

 

[Elanzer]

You can successfully run Windows 7 on roughly ~130mb RAM I think it was (not that it would run acceptably - entirely off the swap file after that), you can try it out yourself - install Win7 on a virtual machine and reduce the memory repeatedly (VM lets you do it by the single megabyte) until it no longer boots properly.

If Windows 7 was on ARM, it would work on pandora's 256mb ram (very slowly), but it doesn't change the fact that if Win7 was ported to ARM, you would lose the entire reason of using Windows at all, there would be thousands less programs than on Linux, you wouldn't really be able to play Windows games because most newer PC games would require way beyond the Pandora's specs, and the OS -still- can't be properly trimmed and customized for your specific hardware like Linux can.

Just seems like a total waste of time. OLPC is a small, rather unsuccessful project (especially if they're thinking Windows will make their project any more successful, that's horrible), it's not going to influence Microsoft to release an ARM version of Win7, nor will ARM Netbooks influence them because likely 99%+ of netbooks sold are x86 based, and it's possible to get netbooks with 8+ hr battery life on x86.

ARM is only really successful in very small, proprietary devices like cellphones, and who would seriously want to use windows on a small device such as a cellphone or PDA? I'd never want to use windows XP or Vista on a Pandora even if I could, it's just a terrible interface for something like that. It has to be custom designed for the small device to be remotely usable, and that will never happen with Windows, only Linux will let you properly do that while still running as an open desktop computer.

 

[Username]

These people are ridiculous, this obviously wouldn't work. Oh well, I hope they don't figure it out.

 

[Dutch_Cap]

How much software is written on .NET nowadays? Because IIRC that runs bytecode on a virtual machine. Edit: And therefore it should be possible to run .NET applications on ARM without recompiling.

 

[fischju2000]

The Pandora could probably drive Windows 7....but MS would never do it. Windows CE isn't bad, and having it on the Pandora would be useful. If anything, OLPC should try to get a specialized build built off of it, like Windows Mobile is.