Why I Will Not Be Getting A Pandora Now...

[andyB911]

I've just learnt from my GP2X first edition experience to wait until the dust settles before ordering.

Just an observation, but if everyone took that approach, we'd never get anything new...

Pioneering has its rewards and risks. Hopefully pre-orderers were aware of this - I suspect there is a large silent majority who are disappointed about (but accept the cause) of the delays and are waiting patiently.

Off topic, is it just me, but there seems little reason to visit this forum at the moment unless you want to get depressed by the vitriol in the banter. And if I wanted to get depressed I'd read the financial pages of a newspaper...Even the off-topic & gp2x forum areas are fairly quiet.....

But I'm sure normal service will return once the Pandora's are out in the wild. In 6 months time we will look back at this period and laugh. Hopefully.

 

[Monk]

In 6 months time we will look back at this period and laugh. Hopefully.

What - you think with a wry grin and a chuckle we'll be saying to each other "...and we thought it was bad back then! LOL!"





Chin up - keep a stiff upper lip. And stuff like that

 

[Gruntfuggly]

I hope I get one of the pre-orders that you guys have cancelled...

 

[WizardStan]

For those in this thread who say nobody is loosing on finacial transactions, you really need to do the maths - somebody is loosing, either the customer or Pandora - with the exchange rates fluctuating so much there has to be a loss somwhere and there are bank fees on top of that.

Not really. Forget money for a second. Most people have this very weird notion about what "money" is and what it can do. Instead of money, lets just go with coloured stones.
I have a widget. I am selling this widget for exactly 5 blue stones.
You have 10 red stones. The bank will give you 5 blue stones for 10 red stones. So you trade your 10 red stones for 5 blue. And give those to me.
Something happens with the widget. I am forced to refund your stones, so you get 5 blue stones back.
During that time, confidence in the blue stone has dropped. The bank is now trading at 5 blue stones for 8 red stones. All the stores in your area only accept red stones, so you need to trade your 5 blue back into red, apparently at a loss of 2 red stones.
Now, I've told you the problem with the Widget has been solved. Take those 8 red stones to the bank, get 5 blue stones, give them to me, you get a Widget, everyone is happy, and everything adds up. Assuming there are no bank fees, which of course there are, but we'll conveniently forget them for the time being. They're constant anyway, and easy to work out.
That's basic global economics. To get more advanced, to show why the bank changed the rate on the stones (and why those two stones you "lost" didn't actually get lost) I'd need a little more time and a lot more stones.

 

[clippa]

Since we're all sitting comfortably, where do babies come from?

 

[kin]

Here's something to relax a bit lmao! :

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=5fyDWZrr1MQ

 

[stustaff]

Not really. Forget money for a second. Most people have this very weird notion about what "money" is and what it can do. Instead of money, lets just go with coloured stones.
I have a widget. I am selling this widget for exactly 5 blue stones.
You have 10 red stones. The bank will give you 5 blue stones for 10 red stones. So you trade your 10 red stones for 5 blue. And give those to me.
Something happens with the widget. I am forced to refund your stones, so you get 5 blue stones back.
During that time, confidence in the blue stone has dropped. The bank is now trading at 5 blue stones for 8 red stones. All the stores in your area only accept red stones, so you need to trade your 5 blue back into red, apparently at a loss of 2 red stones.
Now, I've told you the problem with the Widget has been solved. Take those 8 red stones to the bank, get 5 blue stones, give them to me, you get a Widget, everyone is happy, and everything adds up. Assuming there are no bank fees, which of course there are, but we'll conveniently forget them for the time being. They're constant anyway, and easy to work out.
That's basic global economics. To get more advanced, to show why the bank changed the rate on the stones (and why those two stones you "lost" didn't actually get lost) I'd need a little more time and a lot more stones.

I like it

now imagine that because of the problems with the widget you have lost faith in it!(remember you were told you would get it on X date and now you wont) so you decide the widget is no longer the product for you.
So you now have NO widget and 8 red stones when earlier you had 10 red stones!

Hmm you appear to have lost 2 red stones for believing what the widget company told you...
But of course you could trade them in for 5 blue stones and get a widget...
However because you now dont entirely trust the widget company you arent willing to risk completely losing your stones, so again your 2 stones worse off but i suppose thats better than losing all of your stones!

I perfectly understand global currencies and fluctuations but that doenst mean someone might not be 2 red stones worse off and not happy about it.

Attacking people who voice that unhappiness and telling them they can still get what they wanted 5 6 months ago when it may now not be something they want completely ignores their feelings and is why they get so frustrated and hence angry.

 

[WizardStan]

Attacking people who voice that unhappiness and telling them they can still get what they wanted 5 6 months ago when it may now not be something they want completely ignores their feelings and is why they get so frustrated and hence angry.

Ah, but so too does attacking me, as the producer of the widget, for those 2 missing stones, does it not? I promised a widget for a cost, and a widget for the cost is what I can supply. If you choose not to get the widget anymore, my responsibility has effectively ended. The fault for those two missing stones falls to those that caused the wild swing in the market. That's the point others are trying to make, that you can't blame OP for the "lost" money if you choose not to go through with the transaction.

 

[saboteur]

For those in this thread who say nobody is loosing on finacial transactions, you really need to do the maths - somebody is loosing, either the customer or Pandora - with the exchange rates fluctuating so much there has to be a loss somwhere and there are bank fees on top of that.

Not really. Forget money for a second. Most people have this very weird notion about what "money" is and what it can do. Instead of money, lets just go with coloured stones.
I have a widget. I am selling this widget for exactly 5 blue stones.
You have 10 red stones. The bank will give you 5 blue stones for 10 red stones. So you trade your 10 red stones for 5 blue. And give those to me.
Something happens with the widget. I am forced to refund your stones, so you get 5 blue stones back.
During that time, confidence in the blue stone has dropped. The bank is now trading at 5 blue stones for 8 red stones. All the stores in your area only accept red stones, so you need to trade your 5 blue back into red, apparently at a loss of 2 red stones.
Now, I've told you the problem with the Widget has been solved. Take those 8 red stones to the bank, get 5 blue stones, give them to me, you get a Widget, everyone is happy, and everything adds up. Assuming there are no bank fees, which of course there are, but we'll conveniently forget them for the time being. They're constant anyway, and easy to work out.
That's basic global economics. To get more advanced, to show why the bank changed the rate on the stones (and why those two stones you "lost" didn't actually get lost) I'd need a little more time and a lot more stones.

Now try and see it this way ( i've used USD and GBP and simplified somewhat ).

I wanted to buy the widget @ 100gbp and the exchange rate at the time was 1.8. I pay $180.

Two months later due to an unforseen problem the company refund my money so they return the £100 at an exchange rate of 1.5, so they return to me $150.

So now i'm $30 down on the transaction if I don't re-order.

This assumes the company refund my £100 at the current rate - not my $180 at the current rate - in which case it cost's the company money (which it should, because it's a legitamate cost of doing business and because it was the banks fault in this case they should be suing the banks ass off ).

Granted, if I immeadiately re-order the part I'm not out of pocket.

And of course this excludes the money handling fees for both parties.

Bankers should wear mask's and say 'Stand and Deliver'

 

[dinglebery]

Attacking people who voice that unhappiness and telling them they can still get what they wanted 5 6 months ago when it may now not be something they want completely ignores their feelings and is why they get so frustrated and hence angry.

Ah, but so too does attacking me, as the producer of the widget, for those 2 missing stones, does it not? I promised a widget for a cost, and a widget for the cost is what I can supply. If you choose not to get the widget anymore, my responsibility has effectively ended. The fault for those two missing stones falls to those that caused the wild swing in the market. That's the point others are trying to make, that you can't blame OP for the "lost" money if you choose not to go through with the transaction.

to some extent yes there is some blame ... back when folks could have gotten all their 10 stones back with visa orders people were asked not to cause it would cause even more problems .. now that deadline is long past unless it went to litigation. (ive explained it a few times now if you still dont know or understand please call your Visa rep). in their behalf OP promised theyed make good on it. witch if you send cash and they are produced they will have but for those either not willing to risk it a second time or the wait for "possible" cc reordering .. yes they did loose 2 stones and the whole thing is part the banks fault and part OPs if they would have told the situation upfront people could have got in under the 30 day deadline to do a chargeback painlessly ..

im not saying i fault OP cause that would have finantialy hurt the project hard but it did cause some loss of faith with a few people ..

 

[Monk]

If people are going to keep posting to this thread I can't resist.


Is the reason that the original poster will not "Be Getting A Pandora Now" simply that there are no Pandoras NOW? (yet)

 

[dinglebery]

If people are going to keep posting to this thread I can't resist.

Is the reason that the original poster will not "Be Getting A Pandora Now" simply that there are no Pandoras NOW? (yet)






hehe more than likely :> personaly im waiting for the prefab and a hard date (may dosnt seam unreasnable) and then ill post a money order( bank trasfer to expensive and if TranferZ realy neads a passport i cant do that ). i still would like to belive i the project and team lets just say my faith in their buisness experience/practices has dropped a few notches. and i full well relise its not entirely their fault or ide be long gone already.

 

[Eniko]

Sure, it's been developed with people from the 'community' and aimed at a specific set of users ( US ) but profits the driver here and just because it's a 'homebrew' machine aimed at 'homebrewers' does not mean that company (??) producing Pandora are exempt from the same professional standards and procedures that sony and nintendo have to follow.
They're not exempt because of the nature of the project and how it is targetted, they're exempt because of vast, huge differences in scale. Seriously, I cannot see how anyone can hold half a dozen guys making a handheld to the standards of multibillion dollar multinationals. That's just being silly.

And if you insist on that level of standards then I suggest you look into buying a Nintendo DSi or a PSP-3000.

 

[cherrycyanide]

Are the re-order emails still going out? I never got one...
I felt the same as the OP but if it's really the case that you only have to pay back what you were refunded I would be more than willing to re-order (if I ever get my email).

 

[benjiro]

Problem is, they are a company. As by such, small or large, they are set with a level off standard expected by there customers.

They handed out a expected date for the product. There was no talk about people losing money ( if they now don't reorder ). There was no talk about, "hey, it might be January, February, March, April 2009".

Everything looked like a done deal. Ready to go, give the money, production starts, and happy customers at the end off November.

ED said the bank did not only block the preorder money, but the entire account ( including the reserve / business money ). Why is it, that we only found out a few days ago. Why do we only find out now, that the entire problem with the LCD's was, because off the lack of money, there order ( the 4000 LCD's ) was handed to a other customer. Personally, the information that ED now posted, is something that people needed to have been aware off before.

And again, why the hell have they not sued the bank. If a bank threaded my like that, blocking the money off my business, they are going to have a lawyer on there doorstep before you can say "chill man". Pardon the faul language, but from a outsider, it looks like they just bent over, and took it. :angry:

Do we even have a shipping date now? Remember, we are 2 months after the expected shipping period already... No, we have nothing yet. So, pardon my french, but, some off the people who dare to say: "Stop winning" to the original poster ( and other who did not "reorder" ), need to get a freaking bar off soap, and clean out there mouths.

Some people here are fanboys off the first hour. Its not because you have so much trust in a project, that other people do. So don't act so cocky when people vent there anger at the situation. Lets be honest, communication now has improved, but it took them way to long. The fact that there is a unofficial blog is a rather big mark on the communication skills for this project.

O in case some people are interested, i have a few housing blocks in Pripyat for sale. They are part off the Pandora project, you can preorder now for a cheap price. Expected delivery date is 500 years ( give out take a few millennium ). And in case somebody does not know where Pripyat is located, google is your friend.

 

[dinglebery]

O in case some people are interested, i have a few housing blocks in Pripyat for sale. They are part off the Pandora project, you can preorder now for a cheap price. Expected delivery date is 500 years ( give out take a few millennium ). And in case somebody does not know where Pripyat is located, google is your friend.

If STALKER type stuff was real ide so take you up on that :> great book, and one of the best rpg shooters in years if you can get past the bugs ..

 

[Mithrildor]

Seriously we don't care. We don't want everyone to post a topic about why not. We all know 2009 is the year of the pandora and that we are going to get it.

 

[saboteur]

Sure, it's been developed with people from the 'community' and aimed at a specific set of users ( US ) but profits the driver here and just because it's a 'homebrew' machine aimed at 'homebrewers' does not mean that company (??) producing Pandora are exempt from the same professional standards and procedures that sony and nintendo have to follow.
They're not exempt because of the nature of the project and how it is targetted, they're exempt because of vast, huge differences in scale. Seriously, I cannot see how anyone can hold half a dozen guys making a handheld to the standards of multibillion dollar multinationals. That's just being silly.

And if you insist on that level of standards then I suggest you look into buying a Nintendo DSi or a PSP-3000.

Nope - If your a one person or 1 million person company, the same rules and regs apply, again it's a price of being in business.

And that's the key word BUSINESS, not charity. You didn't donate money, you paid money for a product.

If this was Microsoft - you'd be all over their asses crying wolf and demanding blood.

Like I said I want a Pandora and as soon as it's out i'll order it.

Again sorry for ranting.

 

[iplay4now]

Am I bitter? No. But, it is fair to say the experience so far has cost me, and I expect to pay more than I thought I was going to in total to get the product. However, the biggest winner seems to be Wells Fargo (my US bank), not the Pandora team.

AAAARRRRRRFGGGGHHHHHHFHFGHGHHH!!! How many times does this need to be explained, it is NOT fair to say the experience has cost you because the team is only expecting you to pay the amount you were refunded, no more, no less. Just paint whatever money you received as 'Pandora money' and you'll see as long as you re-order everything is fine.

I know you were being reasonable about it but it feels frustrating when people still aren't picking up on the fact that you haven't lost any money if you actually re-order.


Almost as annoying as people not realising their could be associated fees on top(see theread 2 up) which ARE costing people money!


...and frustrating that you see people trying to poke holes in statements where there were none to find. If the OpenPandora team isn't expecting people to pay extra when re-ordering then this means THEY cover the exchange rate fees. FFS!!!


Okay, this is from the email I got in reply to my gentle complaining to the sales staff

QUOTE

I'm afraid we can't do anything about the currency conversion fee as
we are a UK company and our bank only holds payments in GBP. However
due to the fluctuating exchange rates the amount you have to pay to
re-order will be around the same amount you were refunded (minus the
$10.52 conversion fee).



That doesn't sound quite as unambiguous as I've seen here. (See the word "around"). Of course, this is a little old information, so maybe it changed.

So, what's the bottom line? Anyone ordering should have known that this is a not-quite-finished product, that it is a smallish company, subject to external forces and that therefore there were a number of risks associated with the purchase. Anyone, like me, who has attempted to get a refund from a company in Europe, to a US credit card should have realised that refunds would incur a loss. Personally, I thought they were going to charge me in US$, due to the ambiguous wording on the order screens, but if I had been my more cynical normal self, I would have realised it wasn't going to be that way.

I'm still excited by the product, just less gung-ho than originally .

 

[sold]

I wonder why the topic starter failed to mention that the Australian dollar dropped in value between the time of purchase and refund?

That would mean that after conversion, he would have recieved slightly more than the amount he payed at pre-order even after transaction fees. If he doesn't re-order, the Pandora actually made him a profit