Who wants to become commercial game developers?

[mjohansson]

The homebrewcompeteion, finnaly I just got the idea, am I the only one here who are planning to some time beome a commercial game develioper?


I am all alone, none of my friends have the coding skill or time or even the interest. I have plenty of time, my coding skills are quite disapointing really but I certanly have the dedication and will never give up or take no for an awnser. So are there other people here in a similiar situation? Some people here are seemingly coding geniuses, but work with software development? I suppose its well paid and fun? Otherwise why dont you make games? And I also assume theres a bunch of people everywere who wishes to make games but that cant code and either think they cant learn or dont want to? I have no education at all, I just had the luck of finding the right book that finally managed to teach me the lingo or what its called, that was my main problem, if people would have talked about ram memory instead of variables I would have learned to code a lot sooner...


Well what I need is coding geniuses in particual, but game designers overall, so step up if you can imagine trying to make a game together as a group or random internet users who wish to pursue the same goal! If we dont end up working together commercially atleast we can help eachother, I will gladly share my knowledge and tutor people with my limited experience and poor coding skills.


What I can do as of now is C with SDL and some basics of openGL with SDL. After looking at special effects for openGL I pretty much gave up on that, and making a 3D game with only single textured surfaces and no shadows or any effects is not what I dream of... So now I got the idea of making a software rasterizer, my own code that I could handle and I could do any kind of effects I wanted to cos of my own formatting, interacting with .bmp files for ex is insane! But making my own image format I could handle with ease and then I could always keep check on individual pixel color data and dont need to fetch values from system memory after it has been formatted for a SDL surface for ex. Todays cpus should be plenty fast to do a decent amount of polygons and effects anyway, its not the competing with high end graphics in their way thats interesting but creating a unique visual style wich is a hole lot easier with your own engine done with code you can read and understand. I understand the concepts for stencial shadows for ex. I could code that Im certain, but making a shader?? Id rather not even think about it... Working out how visual logic can work on computer hardware is definitly my thing, working out how other peoples high level langues work is NOT my thing!


So what do you need to be able to do to make a 3D game? Rotate a point around another one, thats basically it I think, if you can do that you can do almost anything!


My plan is to use a array of precalculated cordinates, enough positions for enough angles wished to be used, then trianglute the distance from center of rotation outwards with the vektor gained from array of rotation cordinates. And to draw polygons on a screen you need to transform the 3d data into a 2d image, I have an idea of how to do that but I havent tested it yet, anyway theory goes something like this: if FOV is 45 the each line into the scene infron t of camera grows with 2 units from last, if resolution of screen is 640 wide the first z value is 640 wide, 5 z value is 650 wide, thats 10 units more then 640, 10/640=shift value, move all points towards centrum shift value., all the points on z5 value that is. For simplicity camera is sticky and scene moves around it, you also need to cut of lines, if one polygon corner is in scene and one is outside you cant write to videomemry ouside screen area so you need to create a new point in the suatable location.


I have also tryed raytracing with my own simplistic way of doing it, but framerate isnt good, thats on 1 core 2,6ghz AMD Phenom. If any of you Pandora creators read this, then have you thaught about making a stationary console? What about making one specifically capable of raytracing? Raytracing is an amazing thing and I so long for the day that hardware excist to make good framerates! It would be a unique thing, something no one else is doing, everyone is doing their GPU powered garbage, make a multi cpu box with software renderer that can do raytracing at high res and high framerates! PLEASE do that!!


I dont know what else to say, hope I get some replys, any kind of comments whatsoever, I have the distinct feeling a lot of people will be sighing and rolling their eyes, but dreams come true if you make them, harder things have gotten done...

 

[richiz]

No dreams are awesome dude keep working at it.


Main reason is indie game development aint that well paid and trying to dev for the xbox 360 is a bit like wanting to play for Manchester United.


Indie gamers do make money though so I dont see why it couldnt be done. Im personally just going to try getting a programming job when I land in Toronto and then look at doing a degree part time or something. Maybe Ill try getting a group together for indie game dev at some point but thatd probably be a hobby thing and I've no idea what system I'd design for or how to make any real money from it!

 

[mjohansson]

I just realised my transformation of 3d data tpo 2d image wont work like that, but its the start, then you need a factor for how much shift value to applu, if point is at edge full factor gives full shift value, but closer to centrum of screen then less and less of shift factor goes through.


Indie developers, I never thaught that was what I was trying to become but yea I guess thats it, cos Im not looking in the direction of publishers at all, as far as Ive heard their a joke buissness stealing your games and your profits... That makes it harder to make an Xbox 360 game for ex but not impossible if you can raise the funding for production costs of fysical product. Anyway, making a PC game requires neither publisher or funding for a fysical product, and no one steals your goods or profit


Always when I heard indi I thaught of games like angry birds and stuff, I am looking at games like Metal Gear Solid and that kind of stuff, blockbuster type of games is what I would call it, although Angry Birds is selling blockbuster volumes isnt it? But it dosnt have that sit down in your couch or chair and get blowned away by an amazing epic adventure, thats what I want to do.


Can someone code graphics in assembly? I think I should try to do just that, I dont like depending on SDL for various reasons, Id rather code all graphics and input controls and sound myself. I heard of FASM back a while ago but havent looked into it, you assembly coders here if you read this any suggestions for were to start and how to? Im working in Kubuntu and just type code in Kate. Didnt FASM require some library by the way? ASM shouldnt require that... Thats exactly what I want to get away from, librarys, I hate them! And also I just cant get over the fact that Im not having my own hands on the videomemory... instead its someone elses hands I have my hands on, and I have no idea what theyre doing or why, and I SERIOUSLY DONT LIKE IT! Its driving me nuts! Infact Im gonna start researching assembly foirst thing tommorrow

 

[wardred]

I'd guess, like most independent projects, the main thing the author or authors need is persistence. It would also really help if said developers had a dedicated chunk of time for their project on a daily, or at worst weekly basis. The worst thing for a project is to let it sit for so long you have to "relearn" what you were even doing on it before starting to work on it agian.


For a decent game you're looking at a coder, an artist, a musician, somebody willing to wield the whip, and a game designer. For most smaller projects one person often fills most of the roles and grabs a person or two for the things he can't do. (Or one person does everything, if he has enough talent to do so, or grabs some sort of creative commons licensed artwork or music, etc.) Say doing the code, game design, artwork, wielding the whip, but calling out for a musician. Asking here or on a game dev site like Gamasutra may help you out if you're lacking one or more of these things. Be prepared for whoever you ask of help to expect you to do most of the work and fill in simply the one or two things you're having trouble with.


For 3D games one can try designing one's own engine - not a bad thing to do at all for learning purposes, or take an engine like...any of the Quake engines that have already been open sourced and ported. Boom, most of your coding work is done, now you need GOOD artists, musicians, etc. I suffer the same problem many developers suffer in wanting to do everything myself. It's great for learning how to do something, but not necessarily the fastest way to get something done, especially if you want to make money doing it. Just because the engine is open source doesn't mean that any of your assets need be. (Not sure if there is an GLES 2.x engine out there, but that would probably be the "best" modern engine as it'd work with most portables, and would be easier to port to straight GL than stripping straight GL down to GLES.)


Raytracing, while cool, is incredibly expensive. There was talk of a stationary console, I believe, but the trick is garnering enough interest, and building something that's not just a AMD/Intel 64 PC with a custom case running Linux. Pretty much a stationary console would most likely end up being a stationary version of the Pandora, or more likely a Pandora 2 with 1080P output. :-b

 

[wardred]

Can someone code graphics in assembly?

You can...but then you'd be writing assembly for many different systems and video card configurations.


Generally you'd avoid it like the plague as it becomes a porting nightmare. If I write a game in SDL, I simply recompile it for x86 Linux, XP, Mac, Pandora, etc.


Where you'd typically see it used is somewhere where you need some crazy performance trick. Even the "small" coding contests typically use a library - OpenGL or some such - behind the scenes.


Edit: There's nothing stopping an independent project from selling in blockbuster numbers. The first thing, of course, is to have a stand out game. The next trick is the marketing. How does one get the word out about small project X when everybody is deluged with AAA projects left and right.

 

[mjohansson]

Interesting points wardred, I really wanna do assembly graphics, but for a shared project or an collected effort of making something serious I guess SDL or openGl would be the way to go and I would tinker with assembly by the side for my private obsessions. Then mayby a completly self designed engine isnt feasible for many reasons also, but I will continue doing my own work on that also cos of obsessions... By the way, I tried doing the rasterizing now and it didnt work at all, I got something slightly different up and running but have cordination problems or something, need to think heavy aboyt it tomorrow, anyway its like this:


Vertice a X = 100, centerofscreen = 200, Vertice a Z = 100, drawdistance/fov = 1000.


Draw VaX in centerofscreen - (VaX - (Vax*(VaZ*0.001)))


0.001 = 1/1000


if you move from center then at closest depth it moves 1 unit, and the longer depth the less it moves. But wich cordinates does it move after? Screen or world, its obviously not same shouldnt be used that way anyway. When I put 0 value for VaX I expected it to be at end of screen, but it never got that far out.


Using someone elses engine is something Ive given up on, I guess thats why Im here asking for potential helpers, either I do my own engine or someone programs the harder stuff for me.


Yea Ive been wanting to design my own hardware since long, I lately started thinking about it concerning raytracing, but dont know enough to make an actual feasiible design. There are many cpus, but how can you communicate between them? Put 12 cpus on a board, first there needs to be a board, taking that problem away, there needs to be a controlling cpu of some sorts wich decides wich code goes were and then syncs it? If thats not a problem then you could throw a shitload of cheap cpus like from NEC or someone who does low TDP cpus and do raytracing with it, the thing is in raytracing you could thread every single pixel without problem, I think, if one single cpu can process one single pixels your good to go!! Just put enough of them on a board that you get high enough resolution


Thats somethin none shas done before, perhaps because of physiological impossibility? But if its possible its certanly something unique that could yield graphics no one has seen before, and never underestimate the powerful impact of graphics! I remember all my first encounters with new consoles, SNES with Zelda 3 and SMW looked so smooth and shiny with so warm colors, made me weep inside of joy, and the PSX when I saw a demostation in a store with Bushido Blade, the smoothnes of the framerate and the translucent polygons and the full 3d world, it was amazing, and Wipeout looked so chockingly real, blew me away, and Dreamcast seeing an imported one in a store with VF3, I couldnt believe you could get that good graphics from a videogameconsole!


After that the graphics impact have been far less, PS2 was a disapointment to see after Dreamcast, Xbox wasnt a major upgrade and neither GC, first with PS3 I was somewaht impressed again, not because of the good graphics but because the graphics wasnt as bad as I expected! I had just played through Crysis on a fairly good PC and PS3 had a way worse gpu with only 256 texture memory and a mere 256 system memory wich ticked me off at the time. But textures wasnt low res on Genji 2 not as I expected anyway, thaught everything looked surprisingly good and so, but it wasnt an experience like PSx or DC... And I bet PS4 or next Xbox wont be either, just a mere upgrade again. Its time for another graphical KNOCK OUT! Something that floors people and chocks them, if someone sees a console for the first time and dont get a heartattack and drop halfdead that console is a failure! Full HD raytraced images at 120fps, now that would be something to weep inside for!


Someone from Epic said something about point rendering being the future or something like that, that guy was so right! We need to drop these limiting gpus that make all games look alike, equally fuzzy and effectless, we can do more with algoritms then actual polygons, we are quickly entering the rendering possibilitys with more and more cores, and gpu from what I heard dont play ball to well with more and more cores, even Carmack seemed to argue for true raytracing on last Quackekon, its another one in august, will be interesting to see hat he haveto say this year. Look, everything in nature is a formel isnt it? A seashell is a spiral, that formula can be rendered with raytracing, no need for millions of triangles that still look unreal when you come to close, endless shape and texture resolution from formula based rendering, textures can be fractals or something similiar with endless resolution, each iteration directly accesible, and raytracing or semi hybrid point based renderer can unlock it all. Its time for a revolution! DOWN WITH EVIL GPUS!! >


Oh it wasnt Bushido Blade, what was that first beat em up called? I cant remember

 

[Tam Toucan]

Here's my 2P's worth. You seem to have lots of ideas of things; doing hardware, writing an engine, .... My question is What Do You Want? Do you want to make lots of money? If so then the odds of doing so are staggeringly small if you go indie. Get a programming job contracting or working for a big company. What to chase your dream? Do you have the skills to pursue it? Can you design hardware, do you have the people skills to convince others to help you? Do you have the skills to learn from those that have what you need? Can you clearly state your dream?


Regarding some of your other points. You want mind blowing graphics better than the current AAA games? Realistically not going to happen. How about aiming for a style of graphics that no one has seen before that is uniquely yours? What can YOU achieve? Unless you have a clear, fantastic vision and the people skills to inspire others YOU are the one that has to do it. Unless you have a team of exceptional graphics artists you're not going to get AAA graphics. Have a look at Love for an example of one man can do writing all his own tools.


You say you don't like existing engines, then you don't like the lower level SDL, or pure OpenGL, then you want Assembly, then your own hardware. Again what are you trying to do? You seem to be rejecting every existing tool and wanting to create your own. I understand wanting to create things yourself (I write in OpenGL and OpenAL), but a carpenter doesn't through away his chisel. You have to draw the line somewhere and understand the trade offs.


If you have a clear idea of what your engine is to do then writing your own isn't hard, but you're unlikely to get to AAA standard. Again, plan to do things yourself. Personally I think you would have to be insane to do assembly, you tie yourself to a platform, you won't get anywhere near the level of help from documentation or others, abstracting the engine for other platforms becomes much harder. I just don't see the benefit (FWIW I've done assembly game programming on Spectrum, ST/Amiga, SNES/Megadrive and PC 486).


You mention disliking shaders? But you want to do assembly? Shaders are very close to assembly in their simplicity, but with huge power specifically designed for manipulating pixels. You want a core per pixel? Sounds like a GPU thread. You think current CPUs are plenty fast? If you've got a 1.2 million pixels at 32BPP your will quickly kill any CPU doing a few full screen renders. You want to move away from current GPUs, but if you target current high-end GPUs then the possibilities for doing something new increase greatly (geometry shaders, OpenCL/Cuda etc.)


Finally, stating the obvious, but graphics won't make the game, a game should be FUN. Most of all though; do something you enjoy!

 

[mjohansson]

The thing is I never thaught of the games I wanted to make as indie, so I never considered the fact that indie games may be staggeringly unsuccessfull. I have never even heard of Love, and it seems like a polished good looking game, although I dont get any videogame news anymore ecept whats on the first page of topics on neogaf forum... I guess the videogame world have become so flooded that even good games drown and dont sell on their own merits.


Well having come as far as I have with programming Ive certanly no intentions of quitting trying to make my dreams come true, and wheter I make money on it or not my real dreams is to make games.


I guess Im rejecting tools wich arent created by me, for the reason of not being able to figure out how they work or even not being able to understand how to use them in the first place, nothing pisses me off more then high level languages wich only seem unlogical and a complete mystery to me. Learning C when I could connect the lingo to the hardware was surprisingly simple, looking at the syntax and lack of explenations of it for python for ex makes my head spin and I start crying inside, of sorrow...


Using librarys have been nothing but time consuming major pain so far, I couldnt possibly believe I wouldnt have been able to draw pixels on the screen quicer by learning assembly then trying to figure out SDL, I just recently managed to put pixels on screen with SDL, after 2 years! Before I had to use 1x1 rectangles...


And yea I dont know what the code for putting a pixel on screen in assembly look like, mayby thats why I cant picture it being a world of hurt if youd like to port it to another hardware, dont you just call an interupt with a code for videomode and start accesing the videomemory? No matter how unecesary work or how much pain others consider it to be I suspect its work Id gladly do when needed in order to get the satisfaction of knowing every single line of my code and what it does and so on.


I dont know what a chisel is but I dont think thats what Im trying to do, looking at other peoples code its always bloated with error checks and unecesary lines of code, I know I need those cycles... what why are everyone laughing? yea yea... But look, my raytracing experiment when I exchanged SDL rectangles for a putpixel code it might have gotten a frame faster or so, I might have imagined it, it felt better psycological anyway... I value satisfaction and loving your code and the ease of working with it very highly and I get tottally ticked off when I see people throw away cycles unecesarily, ah I can just see people shaking their heads and such, but I will never get over this, ever. Mayby Im an obsessive optimiser or something?


I dont know about shaders, people have always said they were hard to do, and after failing to understand some effects and peoples tutorials I think i had a look and it looked like high level functions to me wich broke my heart and thats probably the moment I decided to say bye bye open GL. My language is usually more harch but didnt want to risk offending anyone. Mayby I should have another look, but aaah, I think Im gonna go look at assemmbly now first and see what that looks like, besides, its not openGL that I wanna do, its 3d graphics with my own effects, hmm mayby it could be possible to do in shaders, but I seriously suspect the only way I will be able to do it skillwise is through my own way wich would only work in my own engine. When it comes to other peoples code I think I have hit the wall with were I have come today. I wonder if I have what it takes, I never wanted to code I wanted to be game designer and graphics creater, wanting to do games and being all alone you need to code, so I gave it a couple of tryes but I didnt want to read about variables and shit, it didnt paint an image in my head, I just wanted to know the codes to the RAM and such, for mayby 2-3 years ago I accidentally stumbled across a new book and it managed to explain what a variable was and I could finnaly paint a picture with the lingo, and now today I could make a 2D game, I hope... But also I have worked out so much of the requirments for a 3d game, and am so close, atleast it feels that way, and 3d games is all I dream of and all Im interested in.


I guess I should just shut up and get back to work, Im probably the 999675923 person to cry out in cyberspace for someone to magicaly wave a wand and make an engine appear, an engine I could understand...

 

[Tam Toucan]

"dont you just call an interupt with a code for videomode and start accesing the videomemory?"


20 years ago yes. Now you have separate GPU. Believe me this is a Good Thing. I wrote a 3D engine on a ST and 486, even trying to get a fast triangle blitter that doesn't cause artifacts is a pain. Unless you really want to cut down how much drawing and processing per-pixel you can do then I think you are seriously over-estimating the power of the CPU. A few 1900x1200 processing loops eats cycles. Also it's a good you like hardware since you'll have to be aware of all your cache's and structure your data accordingly. So you'll need a clear vision of what your engine is to do. If you just want to draw pixels then just use C and OpenGL! If you want fancy effects; learn Shaders! Doing 3D not using the GPU seems crazy. It's just loads more work. You still need to understand all the same stuff (matrixes etc), but the GPU does it fast.


Even if you want to do raytracing, or voxels, or something unique (there was a guy doing an engine using elipses, not triangles and the base unit), they will all be faster and easier on the GPU.


If you are really serious then I'd get into the demo scene. The stuff those guys do is unbelievable. Here's a couple of random4k demo videos...yes less than 4096 bytes for the entire program and graphics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5CTFMuFvb0,

https://www.youtube.com/embed/_zc9ShGmkSU?feature=oembed but they still use the GPU.

Anway, didn't want to sound like I'm preaching. Good luck with your dream. I really hope you have fun chasing it.

 

[mjohansson]

Thanks for your input! I wil probably end up doing several things at once, even if it isnt my own renderer that leads to my first game I cant drop it cos of obsessive interest, but at a sideline I also wanna get some games running soon enough... I look at shaders, if I absolutly cant figure it out I should ask for help somewere somehow.

 

[wardred]

I also wanna get some games running soon enough... I look at shaders, if I absolutly cant figure it out I should ask for help somewere somehow.

I'm not messing with 3d just yet - I intend to in a bit, but one thing at a time!


If you're willing to go 2D to get something up and running, look at LazyFoo's tutorials. They do a decent job of stepping you through initializing SDL, getting a single large background image on the screen, all the way through a tiling engine.


I'm certain there are 3D tutorials out there, and there are endless books on 2d and 3d gaming, but LazyFoo's tutorials do a decent job of covering the topic succinctly.


Doing graphics programming, at least to start, is not the simplest thing in the world, but once you have it down, then you're just drawing an image at coordinate x,y on the screen.


You needn't necessarily go with SDL. You could use one of the game creation kits, python/pygame, or anything that makes sense to you. You can even do stuff in assembly, but then you'd be limiting yourself to that particular architecture and looking at a re-write to port it to something else.


For 3D I'd focus on GLES 2.x and OpenGL 3.0 as GLES is simply OpenGL 3.0 without all the features. They both use shaders for a good chunk of their work, and that seems to be the direction, at least in the short term, of 3d graphics. Many of the things ray tracing does can be done quicker with OpenGL. With rare exception I believe ray tracers are used for specialized purposes - certain liquid and/or reflection effects, even in movies, and an OpenGL pipeline used for most everything else - though I could be mistaken here.


Cheers, and good luck.

 

[j0n]

Hey,


In answer to your main question, I would like to become a commercial game developer, however in what capacity I'm not entirely sure yet. I am mostly interested in game tech so I'm going to try and get into middleware and core development firstly I think.


I sympathise with you for finding SDL and OpenGL cumbersome and difficult to understand.


I guess the only thing I can say is that with experience you get to appreciate these tools as being necessary.


In terms of higher-level graphics engines, I would say that they are fairly useless when learning the basics of computer graphics as they obscure some of the details you need to truly understand what you doing. I've certainly found this having tried engines like irrlicht and Ogre, which I have now come to appreciate some of the features of, but only after doing the stuff myself(badly).


If you are trying to do things like draw a pixel in SDL, you are using the wrong tool. OpenGL is your man:

glBegin(GL_POINTS);

       glVertex3f( 0.0f, 1.0f, 0.0f);

glEnd();

Quite simple I think, and you could use Vertex buffers as they are the standard way of doing this now : nehe's vertex buffer tutorial


There's no need to reinvent the 3D wheel, it's been done very well already. If you want to understand what's going on, something like "Real-Time Rendering" is a great book which details all you ever wanted to know about rendering pretty much.


I don't understand your problem with GPUs, I think they are awesome, and they are becoming more programmable all the time. Shaders give you access to all of the important stages of the pipeline. There is more than GLSL to consider as well, Cg and HLSL are popular too. But the syntax of GLSL is nearly identical to C, which you said you liked learning. So you should like GLSL too!


In terms of getting programming graphics in assembly, I would say, don't do it.


This is bound to be a nightmare, as different platforms have different drivers, different drivers exist for different cards, etc. If you are only doing it to satisfy your curiosity in how it is done, I would recommend just browsing something like the SDL source code :


SDL source download


, it's fairly mature and well tested at this stage I think.


Ray tracing on hardware is interesting, and you're wrong in saying no one has done it before... But I don't think I should go into the details on that yet.


For real time rendering, we can get pretty close to full global illumination in real time already with CPU-based ray tracers plus some cool post-processing techniques :


A-Trous Wavelet filter


So maybe we don't need hardware-based ray-tracers at all?


Anyway, best of luck with your experiments, hope your computer games are awesome and are playable on the Pandora my linux PC.

 

[Tam Toucan]

Some noise and stuff for your aural senses.

FYI No permission on any of those files.

 

[wardred]

What I definitely have though, is the ability to produce audio (music, noises+effects) but I am not an engineer (it's a hobby).


. . .


So what's your business model and sorts? What will your contracts entail?

Zev, audio is one of the areas I think many of us aspiring coders lack skills, so I see no lack of collaboration opportunities for you.


No business model as yet - need to get at least one game finished! If the game was made to make money - I'd guess a lot of the games aren't being done that way for the contest - that payments would be royalty based unless some aspiring developer here is making way more than me! I've no idea of the breakout of "average" royalties for indie games. Lead coder, producer, writer, graphics artist, musician, and somebody to do the "day to day" stuff - collecting your money, replying to e-mails, updating your website, etc. Probably 2 to 3 people total.


An interesting take on the indie scene - http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/30/ai-war-and-the-hidden-cost-of-indie-games/


As is Craig's on the hardware side of things!


Edit: Sample 1 is definitely named properly! I really liked samples 2 and 3. Sample 4 was cool, but not something anybody would likely be able to use in their games - though something not quite so similar to that beat could be. Sample 5 - The initial background music was really jarring, liked the mid part - very energetic, would go well with a top down shooter when everything's going crazy - the explosion was a bit jarring too.

 

[TylerAW]

I have not read you're entire post but I'm currently attempting to become a commercial developer. I'm a 3D artist and can pretty much do anything any of you need except complex characters. I'm working on two diff groups on projects but I'm trying to make my own or I was hoping to get some commercial project started in the Pandora space.


I cannot code though so I would need help

 

[mjohansson]

It could be cool to have an open Pandora dev team, that anyone can join and leave as they please, games if any gets released could be free and people who wish could donate via paypal, how to split the donations I have no idea about though. I really dont have the skills as of yet anyway to make anything 3d, I will be working on my own software renderer and put the code out for anyone to use, but a software renderer will be pretty limited in performance especially on the Panda. Making some more grand 2d games should be possible though, like a big rpg mayby?


Well if people are interested in this they could just join in and start working on what their skills are, publish the games and their complete workings somewere and people can dig into to the material and see if they can add something to it like more sprites or 3d models if someone makes a 3d engine and music, story whatever.


My own skills are limited C and SDL coding, some extremely minor openGL 2.0 commands, 3d theory, and some crude 2d drawing skills (wich I suppose everyone possess).