Which reimplemented Amiga would be the better choice?

[Prometheus]

So, I've been looking at a few different types of reimplemented Amiga hardware lately, and I'm wondering which would be a better fit for me.


Over time, whilst amassing games to play on my Pandora (I only emulate what I own, and what rights-holders have permitted legal downloads of), I have ended up with a large collection of Amiga software and associated disk images thereof. This mostly consists of games, but I also have some handy utilities like Deluxe Paint 3 and Comic Setter that I would like to get better use out of. I own a copy of Amiga Forever, too, of course, for the files it provides.


I don't mind emulation, but I'm soon moving over to a Raspberry Pi as my main workhorse computer unless some circumstance should arise that causes this not to work out, and since the x86 box that I currently use can sometimes get a bit stuttery with Amiga 500 emulation (more so than most other systems except for the SNES, for some reason), I figure that it won't be the best option by that time.


Accordingly, I've been looking at the Minimig (and some Minimig-derived projects), and the NatAmi. As far as I can tell, the NatAmi might be the more complex of the two, but also more useful in some respects. But the Minimig can run entirely from an SD Card, and will let you assign disk images to virtual disk drives (I can't seem to tell if the NatAmi will also allow for this, though). It seems that both use a VGA output for the display (with the Minimig also able to output PAL RGB SCART signals over this), so that won't present me with any issues either way.


I am unaware of whether or not there are any better options. Searching Amiga-specific forums and sites has not yielded any firm consensus on what the best bet might be.


I'm asking about this because I never owned an Amiga myself (I only knew folks who had them, and often played games on them whilst visiting), and am seriously not quite sure which option would best suit me. After all, I know that there are a fair few Amiga enthusiasts here who might be able to give some advice.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Well Im waiting for a natami as it aims to be a complete amiga system.They have said it will be backward compatible with most of the old amiga software.It will have super aga which is an enhanced version of the amiga 1200 chipset.They aim to have netsurfing and usb etc.It will run the original amiga os.It will be bundled with some new games and old amiga programs.But it might take a while before things like netsurfing and aros(open source evolution of the original amiga os)are implemented. The natami is still in prototype stages though and wont be out for a while yet.50 fpga arcades have been released already.Alot of people are interested in the Fpgarcade also.The site is not too informative.It is an aga(32 bit amiga) amiga but also you can flash other old consoles/computers to the fpga and have them running as if they were real hardware also.


the minimig has been said to be a bit old now.I don't think the minimig is very compatible with old software but it might have improved.A real amiga 500 might be better than a minimig.


You said 'will let you assign disk images to virtual disk drives (I can't seem to tell if the NatAmi will also allow for this, though)' do you mean save states in games or just a software hardrive? The natami won't have savestates in games and will behave like a regular amiga with the addition of usb,ethernet and much more power.there might be an sd slot planned too.

 

[Prometheus]

I don't think the minimig is very compatible with old software but it might have improved.

Ok, I didn't know that. That's a bit of a problem.

A real amiga 500 might be better than a minimig.

A real Amiga 500 is really not an option. I wear out keyboards like you wouldn't believe! This has been a deciding factor in moving away from laptops for desktop use, where keyboards are not really very simple to replace. Part of the appeal of something like the Minimig or NatAmi, for me, is avoiding this issue. :lol:

You said 'will let you assign disk images to virtual disk drives (I can't seem to tell if the NatAmi will also allow for this, though)' do you mean save states in games or just a software hardrive? The natami won't have savestates in games and will behave like a regular amiga with the addition of usb,ethernet and much more power.there might be an sd slot planned too.

No, I don't mean save-states or hard drives. I mean, as far as I know, you don't use a real floppy disk drive with the Minimig. Instead, you put .adf images on an SD Card, and load them into virtual drives the same as you do with, say, UAE4All.


I really like that option, as the world of setting up virtual Amiga hard disk drives, and registering WHDLoad to install games that were meant to run off of floppies and not hard drives, and so on, is completely alien and esoteric to me, and I don't even know if it works for everything. :lol: (With this said, I should note that pretty much every single piece of Amiga software I own is meant to run off of floppies, as far as I'm aware.)

 

[gunni]

I'm also waiting to see what happens with the Natami, I like the fact that with the Natami you can attach a floppy drive and from the outset it is a more complete "Amiga" machine. Saying that, it's going to boil down to price for me. I want internet connectivity for my Amiga so downloading files from Aminet is a hassle free operation for example. I have a setup with my A500 at the moment where I use my laptop's wireless connection with a usb-serial adaptor and null-modem cable which as you can imagine is extremely slow yet marginally quicker than downloading files and transfering them with Amiga Explorer.


I was toying with the idea of getting myself an A1200 but by the time you pay for an accelerator, networking card and so on it is getting a bit pricey for a 20 year old system.


Back on topic, if the FPGA replay board and daughterboard work out a lot cheaper than Natami when they are all generally available then thats what is going to decide it for me but I think I'd prefer Natami.


Point to note regarding the Minimig, if you are going for one you should make sure it has the ARM controller instead of the PIC controller. With the ARM controller you can have hard disk as well as floppy images on the SD card.

 

[slaeshjag]

I wear out keyboards like you wouldn't believe! This has been a deciding factor in moving away from laptops for desktop use, where keyboards are not really very simple to replace.

On non-apple laptops, they usually are

 

[Prometheus]

I wear out keyboards like you wouldn't believe! This has been a deciding factor in moving away from laptops for desktop use, where keyboards are not really very simple to replace.

On non-apple laptops, they usually are

It's certainly not easy on many that I've ever encountered - it invariably involves a partial deconstruction of the entire machine.


If you ask me, it should be done in the same way it was on the older Apple iBooks - turn a small screw that is deliberately easily accessible to the user at the top of the keyboard, flip old keyboard forward and unplug it, plug new keyboard in, flip new keyboard back into place, turn new keyboard's screw back the other way to lock it in place. It doesn't get much more simple.


Anyway, I'm not quite sure why you're bringing up Apple, though. I use a Lenovo ThinkPad...

 

[slaeshjag]

Hmm... The keyboard on my thinkpad X21 is only held in place with three plastic clips, just like on all other laptops I've ever owned.


EDIT hmm... I now checked my thinkpad, it was not plastic clips there. Weird, as every laptop except that one used clips.

 

[Prometheus]

I think I've only owned two with easily-removable keyboards in all the time I've been using laptops (which is fourteen years, now).


And on that note, I'm starting to wonder whether I'd be better off just going the x86 + emulation route, here. My ThinkPad is seriously not long for this world at this point, and I strongly suspect it's not going to last until the Raspberry Pi delays are over. Just my luck. :rolleyes: (Not that I'll cancel the order - I still want to sort out a household server and some other things for which it will be ideal.)


Does anyone know the current state of Amiga emulation/front-ends on Linux? (I'm currently on one the LTS *buntus, so I'm a bit behind. )

 

[gunni]

I'm running Ubuntu 12.04 beta (Amd64) just now and E-UAE refuses to run so far. No problems with UAE which is weird, since I always thought they were pretty similar. Tend to spend more time on the real hardware than emulating admittedly.


This looks quite interesting though... net play!!!


Edit: If you're contemplating x86, what about an AROS machine like the AresOne? you could always dual-boot AROS with your Ubuntu...

 

[Prometheus]

^ What's the advantage of that, as compared to just using some variant of UAE for the software I have? (Serious question, as I can get a better deal on a slightly better-specified machine from a particular British e-tailer.)


I'm liking how FS-UAE is looking, incidentally!

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Fs-uae looks nice alright.Its still being developed.The fpgarcade will have an sd card slot i believe but theres no case for it it's just a board.You could probably put it in a pc case though. Dunno if much connecting skills is needed to put it in a case with other hardware etc.Ive heard the fpgarcade has good backwards compatability but it might be best to e-mail the creator mike,on the fpgarcade site for more info. Incidentally the amigas and c64s (even the new commodore usa ones have mechanical keyboards.http://en.wikipedia....ki/Commodore_64They are more responsive with better travel.They might be tougher than regular pc keyboards which are much cheaper her's some pc mechanical keyboard info.http://www.pcworld.c...you_switch.html

 

[skeezix]

Don't forget C-One, though I've no real information about it. C-one can do a number of systems, one of which is Amiga (from Minimig.) But I've not had time to read much of this thread, just doing a drive-by.. read more later


jeff


I mean, as I'm obligated by history in the 80s to say, your best bet for Amiga is of course to use Atari instead

 

[gunni]

^ What's the advantage of that, as compared to just using some variant of UAE for the software I have? (Serious question, as I can get a better deal on a slightly better-specified machine from a particular British e-tailer.)

At the risk of provoking a backlash, probably none at at all except the general Amiga feel of AROS although I've heard the integrated emulation in AROS is quite good allowing 68k Amiga apps to run in AROS windows and launching of ADFs by just double clicking them. I think some of the money from the machines sold helps fund the AROS project too.

 

[skeezix]

Oh, theres really no reason to have 'real hardware' over emulation for somethign like running apps for Amiga or Atari ST or the like; they're _very_ expensive, less functional, and cheap PC hardware is amazingly more useful. But it _feels cool_ to use hw derived from the old stuff, to run actual apps on that hardware, worts and all. Its also a very fun development platform, to work on 'real hardware' (even if its 50 steps removed.)


Its not really _useful_, but its _fun_


For Atari, theres projects like ARanyM, that let you run old apps on a virtualized OS of the old machines, with it tieing virtualized printers to your real printers, that sort of thing; that sort of project is even way more useful, really.


But, for me, having an actual 'new' piece of gear with Atari Fuji stamped on it, is freaking awesome


jeff


(Atari ST and Amiga gearheads were always at each others throats; I was on the Atari side of the fence, and was an Atari salesman of sorts as a kid.. so thats why my angle is from the Atari ST perspective, but they were contemporary machins with similar and overlapping communities, and the same goals in producing new hardware etc. So pretty similar discussions.)

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

And to summarise amigas are better than ataris! :lol:

 

[Prometheus]

Just to update this, further research revealed the x86 option to be the better one for my needs, helped along by the worsening of the symptoms of my ThinkPad's motherboard failure, and the Raspberry Pi's delays. As of earlier, my new box has been ordered (a custom-built one from an enthusiast-driven UK online retailer, not much customised from their base model - their bang-for-buck and price for components beat Amazon, and beat building one myself), and now I just need my ThinkPad to keep on living until it's delivered next week! I already had a pair of speakers that I got a deal too good to miss on, and had put aside before the RPi pre-orders opened up, and I'm just breaking them in now - and they sound especially good with Amiga music!

Thanks very muchly for your advice and input, everyone.

(Atari ST and Amiga gearheads were always at each others throats; I was on the Atari side of the fence, and was an Atari salesman of sorts as a kid.. so thats why my angle is from the Atari ST perspective, but they were contemporary machins with similar and overlapping communities, and the same goals in producing new hardware etc. So pretty similar discussions.)

I knew folks with both, so I like both equally.


That said, I do have some preferences for the Amiga or Atari versions of certain games, though, either because they were what I knew back then, or because the games were designed mostly for a particular one of the two. For example, I prefer the Amiga versions of Lemmings, Oh-No! More Lemmings, and Sleepwalker, but prefer the Atari ST version of Chip's Challenge (which, funnily enough, I was actually first introduced to via the cheesy Microsoft Windows version ). I don't have enough ST games, yet...