Why, exactly, does MagicEyes have a say in this? (I have a suspicion as to why, but would really like to hear the question answered.)
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Where Is The Firmware
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Why, exactly, does MagicEyes have a say in this? (I have a suspicion as to why, but would really like to hear the question answered.)
FluffyPanda
I have 6 little blue things. W00t.
Haven't I already read this thread?
Anyway... I'm looking forward to the first community produced OS for the GP2x. I'd actually quite like to be a part of putting it together.
Ideally I'd like to see GPH release just one complete, compilable source tarball that we can use as the basis of this community GP2x distribution. After that I don't care what GPH/Dignsys/The Korean Grandmothers Coders Association does with the source. I'm sure there are plenty of /.ers and GPL geeks that are genuinely interested in working on an OSS handheld. I'm equally sure that they'll do a better job of servicing the community than Dignsys.
Don't believe me? Take a look at Xbox Media Centre, and that was for a closed-source Microsoft console that people cared enough about to illegally hack into doing what they want. It's miles better than the origonal xbox dash, and has massively more media functionality than even the 360. Something similar will evolve for the GP2x, given time.
*a black cat crosses the hall*
...
...
*a black cat crosses the hall*
Haven't I already read this thread?
Anyway... I'm looking forward to the first community produced OS for the GP2x. I'd actually quite like to be a part of putting it together.
Ideally I'd like to see GPH release just one complete, compilable source tarball that we can use as the basis of this community GP2x distribution. After that I don't care what GPH/Dignsys/The Korean Grandmothers Coders Association does with the source. I'm sure there are plenty of /.ers and GPL geeks that are genuinely interested in working on an OSS handheld. I'm equally sure that they'll do a better job of servicing the community than Dignsys.
Don't believe me? Take a look at Xbox Media Centre, and that was for a closed-source Microsoft console that people cared enough about to illegally hack into doing what they want. It's miles better than the origonal xbox dash, and has massively more media functionality than even the 360. Something similar will evolve for the GP2x, given time.
*a black cat crosses the hall*
...
...
*a black cat crosses the hall*
Haven't I already read this thread?
Shane R. Monroe
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Despite the ensuing flames, I just had to post ... Go ahead and scream at me ...
Unfortunately, this is far more common than the GPL screamers would like to admit. "GIVE US SOURCE AND WE'LL FIX EVERYTHING" and strangely enough, the source comes, and little to nothing happens (at best) or TOTAL CHAOS ensues (at worst).
I think everyone here that's flaming the living crap out of the parties involved must make ONE "fix" or "significant enhancement" to the source and release it, say within a couple weeks. Those that don't, get flamed to no end here. Sounds fair to me. In fact, if I don't see MPG support in mplayer in a week after the firmware release, I'm going to flood these forums with screaming and yelling.
What's that? Fix it myself? Guess what? I CAN'T ... I'm not a damn programmer. I'm a user ... I don't give a rat's ass if source code is available because I can't do anything with it. Maybe *you* can. *Maybe* you will. But this flaming crap is getting redundant and counterproductive.
Instead of bitching about the firmware, why not grab some source to products that aren't finished on the GP2x and work on that while you wait? I'd sure like the bugs fixed in SquigesSNES emu - How about getting the rest of MESS working? We apparently have a FORUM FULL OF PROGRAMMERS here just DYING to work for free ... so get the hell busy. The devil obviously finds work for idle hands.
This behavior does NOTHING to make the masses want to adopt Linux. Nothing.
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Muncher666
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And I'm SURE with smart alec comments like that, THEY will. <_<
That's not what he asked at all. To me it sounded like he was being a little sarcastic, but more putting out an open forum to anyone who has plans for 2x operating system development.
Allan.
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I'm sorry. I did make a relevant reply I checked my post. Wanting the source means different things to different people. If rarely if ever means fix thats the point. I read the question as "you wont do anything with the source so why even ask", I was trying without bringing the countless arguments of why open-source without going off-topic. The reality is its done better by others elseware, and can only cause things like Shane R. Monroe post. Which talks about fixing things. When there are other better reasons. I mention my main one as being *trust*.
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Rayek
Recovering Sega Addict
I'm trying to figure out what this means. It sounds like you're bashing the likes of me? but.... I really don't know. Do you mean to say that all of us who want the source are going to get nothing of it? That's interesting. Because FluffyPanda seems interested in at least taking part in the development of the Community OS. And I'm sure there are many others. What we have yet to see is something constructive, an amssing of all those interested in working on an OS that will, of course, use the coveted source, and a compiling of all the goals said OS will hope to acheive.
And... I don't think the point of this is to get the masses interested in Linux. We, I guess, kind of want a better product, if that makes any sense. :huh:
For your competition of producing meaningful additions, I for one will be exempt because I'm not 'flaming', I'm 'informing'.
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You're my new hero
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evening2005
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Please note, I'm not screaming here or elsewhere in this thread or on the board. I'm trying to argue rationally with some of the things you say here.
Would you like to give some examples of people being "flamed" in this thread. I've read the whole thing and so far your post is the most inflammatory (that's a joke, just in case you didn't notice) by far. Earlier in the thread I've already given two reasons why, even if I'm not personally going to work on the source, it should still be released. I think there are probably more reasons than the two I listed, but I think the fact that it's in the licence is the critical one. GPH have no right to sell the GP2X if they can't provide the source code.
One thing that is common among people arguing on your side of this issue is an apparent need to tell other people what to do. I've heard that GPL-advocates should stfu, quit bitching, "get the rest of MESS working", "get the hell busy", put MPG support in mplayer , grow up, not post the story on Slashdot, stop posting here, contact members of this forum before talking about this issue etc etc etc ad nauseum. Obviously you can't talk for others who seem to share your views, but why do you feel this need to tell others what to do? Before you say that I am telling GPH to produce the source, remember that they are obliged to do that.
I think the important thing is that if people want to use Linux they should obey the terms of the licence. There is zero benefit to Linux in having GPH trample all over the GPL in this way.
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Muncher666
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Although I seminally agree with you, I feel you're introducing more flamage to the forums... the basic point that most people are trying to make is that GPL violation equals a lack of legally deserved freedom, and I agree with that. I also agree with you that all of this yelling and screaming about it is futile. It irks me that certain people who are crusading over all of this business will do absoloutely nothing with the source. But you come from a community who are trying to make the GP2X better, and you as a consumer (hell, I am as well) should also at least be quietly upset about this. I'm personally a very patient man, and I'm quite happy to wait - but I helped (at least, I think I did) in a friendly and un-obtrusive manner - what I'm trying to say is if all of the people who hounded Dignsys/GPH had done it with a nicely written and polite letter, I'm sure we'd be getting more official response out of them. I was getting constant, quick replies from Dignsys before they got so many abusive emails. I'm ranting - so here it is, you can normally make your point without being rude, sarcastic and above all, fucking bratty.
Allan.
EDITED: to cut bulk of quote. By the way Deed, I wouldn't be quite so proud of that.
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I would like to take a moment to debunk one of the more spouted excuses for the lack of a firmware source release:
“If the firmware source is released then the Chinese clone company will come along and steal all of GPH’s business”
Not True. I direct you at http://linksys.com/gpl - this is all the GPL licensed source code used by Linksys in their routers, and other network devices. Linksys has many competitors, it would very easy for them to take these releases and build a clone of a Linksys router that provides all the same functionality, and in fact some have. However, this has in no way significantly impacted Linksys, because few people buy the cheap knock offs, since the price difference isn’t that great and you know exactly what you’re getting when you buy the Linksys. What it has resulted in is several unofficial firmwares for various linksys products that add additional functionality. For example here’s the feature list for the DD-WRT firmware for a Linksys WRT54G router: http://wrt-wiki.bsr-clan.de/index.php?titl...29#Feature_List – Pretty impressive if you ask me. The WRT54G in it’s latest model no longer uses Linux as it’s embedded OS, this move which was done to bring down cost (VxWorks the new OS can run on a “dumber” device) this switch resulted in enough lost of sales for Linksys that it prompted them to release the WRT54GL (the L’s for Linux) which returned the unit to using Linux. All in all everybody has won in regards to Linksys and there use of GPL’d software.
I fail to see how GPH’s relationship with GPL’d software would be any different.
“If the firmware source is released then the Chinese clone company will come along and steal all of GPH’s business”
Not True. I direct you at http://linksys.com/gpl - this is all the GPL licensed source code used by Linksys in their routers, and other network devices. Linksys has many competitors, it would very easy for them to take these releases and build a clone of a Linksys router that provides all the same functionality, and in fact some have. However, this has in no way significantly impacted Linksys, because few people buy the cheap knock offs, since the price difference isn’t that great and you know exactly what you’re getting when you buy the Linksys. What it has resulted in is several unofficial firmwares for various linksys products that add additional functionality. For example here’s the feature list for the DD-WRT firmware for a Linksys WRT54G router: http://wrt-wiki.bsr-clan.de/index.php?titl...29#Feature_List – Pretty impressive if you ask me. The WRT54G in it’s latest model no longer uses Linux as it’s embedded OS, this move which was done to bring down cost (VxWorks the new OS can run on a “dumber” device) this switch resulted in enough lost of sales for Linksys that it prompted them to release the WRT54GL (the L’s for Linux) which returned the unit to using Linux. All in all everybody has won in regards to Linksys and there use of GPL’d software.
I fail to see how GPH’s relationship with GPL’d software would be any different.
Paradox
oh em gee
thats what ive been saying all along. basically, nobody will buy the cheap knock offs...
Hanz™
FIGHT THE POWER! :D
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furikuri
Still Fresh
Thank you so much. You took the words out of my mouth.
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I'm sure we can expect hundreds of different versions of the firmware with little niggles here and there addressed, few of which are fully tested before release resulting in beta testers gambling with their units in a weekly basis. These will no doubt cause incompatabilities which existing software and devs will end up having to compile different versions of the same program to appease the range of different firmwares from people who trust official updates and those who prefer homebrew.
There's all this talk about "once we get the source" but there are few signs that people are prepared for it. There's no central organisation being organised to vet and collect code to include in a single firmware version. There's no signs of people enabling mechanisms for testing that means we won't have to deal with scores of bricks.
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Hanz™
FIGHT THE POWER! :D
Of course it all makes sense now, the project Open2X will splinter into thousands of tiny projects for no apparent reason, and devs will refuse to collaborate with eachother, therefore causing huge compatability problems.
To be honest your whole post is completely wrong.
evening2005
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Remember, the community here is only one reason why the source should be released. The other reason to release the source is that GPH are obliged to do so. This isn't something that they can choose not to do.
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The only legitimate concern is the possibility that there will be incompatibilities between the official firmware and the Open2X firmware, but I don't see how there could be a grand multitude of incompatible firmware versions – just two. Some people I'm sure will make wild exotic firmware versions for odd purposes, such as using the GP2X in a robotics project, but I doubt anyone who does that has any desire or expectation of running software designed for a “general purpose” GP2X. There are an unbelievable number of Linux distributions out there and this sort of thing just isn't a problem unless you introduce package management, instead of completely self-contained distributeables. Case in point – Stepmania in Linux. I downloaded Stepmania from here: http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/Downloads then extracted it to an appropriate location on my Linux box and tried to run it. It failed to start and complained about a few dependencies ie. SDL. I then proceeded to use my distributions package management system (apt-get) to grab the dependencies, and tried again. Everything worked fine. It's hardly like Stepmania had to be compiled for the particular version of Ubuntu I run, just x86 Linux. In fact as I recall doesn't the gnuboy package for Debian ARM work fine on the GP2X? One of the beauties of Linux is portability after all...
I'd rather have a De facto standard that's good with some splintering then a De Jure standard with gapping holes in it, but an official seal-o-approval.
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Winterkid
Active Member
No, i'm not a programmer.... but...
Rather than create entire firmwares ourselves as a community, shouldn't we merely work on modules and libraries to augment, rather than replace the official firmware?
Or something along those lines? Seems to me, that's the best way to ensure compatibility with all versions.
Rather than create entire firmwares ourselves as a community, shouldn't we merely work on modules and libraries to augment, rather than replace the official firmware?
Or something along those lines? Seems to me, that's the best way to ensure compatibility with all versions.
FluffyPanda
I have 6 little blue things. W00t.
Maybe you're slightly confused as to what exactly the "official firmware" is. It's basically ARM linux, some GNU tools and the software you see in the menu.
Replacing it with a community effort based on the same ARM-Linux and GNU tools would only mean getting rid of the rather rubbish ebook reader, the movie player that can't handle mpeg and the adequate picture viewer and audio player.
As well as replacing these we could see some great improvements in emulator integration, game launching and whatever else people come up with. This community is just bubbling over with good ideas and great programmers.
I can honestly imagine this time next year that GPH has stopped releasing new firmwares because nobody at all is using the "official" one any more.
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I think thats the main worry from GPH.
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