What Would You Say If...

[spray]

First of all at I think it's the developer who "is" the scene in the first place. It's not about getting praise, it's about getting reactions. Sorry, but if you download a game from a page that says: please leave feedback after playing my game, and you can get the game for free, why not just do what the developer wants? It's not that it'll cost $100 to say: "i liked the game, maybe you should add more levels".
I'm a bit disappointed about your point of view regarding emulators. Sure, GP32 emulators are essential for your GP32 sales at GBAX, but that doesn't mean they're more important than any other homebrew product. Important for what? Sales? The GP32 scene (which is, as i stated, the developers in the first place)? I really don't think you can just say they're more important.
You sound as if programming games wouldn't be serious work that take time and skills. You really should know better! Sure, there are people who do it for their own fun who don't give a shit about other people's opinions, but a lot (if not most) developers from #gp32dev are pissed because no one gives feedback when feedback is wanted.
Maybe the GP32 users will stop thinking like that when the first "important" emulator coders quit coding for the GP32 because they lack feedback.

First of all, I think it's the developer who "is" the scene in the first place.

how can you think that. ok, without devs theres no one releasing anything. but without the users who the fuck is going to use the apps? and importantly whose going to give the devs their much deserved feedback???

I'm a bit disappointed about your point of view regarding emulators. Sure, GP32 emulators are essential for your GP32 sales at GBAX, but that doesn't mean they're more important than any other homebrew product. Important for what? Sales?

no another one. for fucks sake, craigix runs a business. for staters your slamming his opinion, something you have no right to do. if he thinks emus are more important, then you can't take that away from him, let alone be dissapointed!

but a lot (if not most) developers from #gp32dev are pissed because no one gives feedback when feedback is wanted.

i think we've already established that there isn't a problem with feedback, huge amounts have been given for linux, gpadvance, gpdoom and a whole host following the compos, that included games too!

this thread has no real back bone at all. the dev who it concerns is too pussy to be identified or do their own work. most board users are stating they do post feedback when required, and a few devs are fighting a losing battle against everyone.

 

[Dozer]

I think what the problem is, is that devs are given lots of praise when they release something. Usually. They get praise even if the app isn't used that much. Now when people don't use the app everyday, they don't give feedback, because they aren't experienced with the program. But the dev expects feedback because of all the praise they get from when it's released. Making it seem like lots of people are using the program all the time.

It's difficult to explain, I think most will be quite a aware of a dev or 2 that you could be talking about. Perhaps it's just that people aren't excited enough, or use the program enough to give feedback. High downloads and lots of praise doesn't mean it's getting used loads. I download and try almost everything, but most of it not enough to give decent feedback on.

Surely that's what beta testers are for?

It's pretty hard to get the point I'm thinking over, but anyway.

 

[Swiss_Cheesespam]

There are a lot of whiners and beggers who are really fucking annoying, but devvers should really just ignore them. Just because they don't appreciate what they're doing doesn't mean none of us do.

However, if the developer quitting the project because of said whiners while chucking a litty hissy fit, or is doing something not entirely legal or disrespectful, then he/she can go fuck him/herself.

EDIT: When it comes to feedback, when you are getting very little or none, take that as a GOOD thing. People enjoy your program

EDIT 2 - The Return of the EDIT: I just read Kojote's post. Jesus christ cry me a fucking river.

I appreciate the authors of the programs I download, but I'm not going to suck dicks because of it. I play my GP32 only occasionally, as would many other people. Handhelds aren't used as much by people as stuff like PCs and Consoles are. I tend to submit more bug reports/suggestions to stuff that I can play on PC because I use it more. I have submitted a bit of feedback for the GP32, not a whole lot, but enough to hopefully contribute to the development of a developers program.

Your post isn't helping the situation, since you're basically insulting anyone who has ever download something you made without giving feedback, asshole.

 

[RoboJoe32]

1: What is this "mysterious" game or app people speak of?

2: This is the best community there is just about it. want an example of the PC, PS2, or other scenes? www.gamehippo.com, A site for freeware games, 99 percent of the comments are offensive non-constructive comments.

3: Stop whineing, grow a backbone, and actually show your work (to random invisable dev spoken about in this thread), And people might respect you. No one likes a whiny little emo kid.

4: Emulators and games basically take the same amount of codeing work, no one is "lazy" by makeing an emulator or porting one. The main issue is that, There are no "unique" homebrew games I can think of, each are variations of a puzzle game or shooter.

5: I respect people who code and work hard, but when they throw a tantrum and go "WELL FINE! I'M NOT RELEASING IT" and basically crawl off to cry in the corner piss me off to no end.

 

[fdave]

I think the problem is there is no such thing as "enough feedback"

I try to priase the developers who release something i like, but i can only praise them once before i start to sound a bit obsessed...

I can only speak personally, but in some cases many people giving the exact same feedback just gets very annoying

For example I recent about 3-4 e-mails a day saying more or less the same thing

"Hi Dave, PicoDrive is great! But when are you going to add sound??? It really needs sound support then it will be perfect!"

So hopefully you can understand how after repliying to the 37th e-mail this gets a little bit of a pain!
I would prefer if people first thought "Does the programmer already know what I'm about to tell him?" and in the case of the sound question the answer would definitely be yes!

 

[Kojote]

Your post isn't helping the situation, since you're basically insulting anyone who has ever download something you made without giving feedback, asshole

i don't insult anyone here, i just want to motivate a few people who probably hardly give feedback, to do so. english isn't my native english so a few lines may sound rude, this is not what i want... and thanks for the nice "asshole"

 

[Swiss_Cheesespam]

Your post isn't helping the situation, since you're basically insulting anyone who has ever download something you made without giving feedback, asshole

i don't insult anyone here, i just want to motivate a few people who probably hardly give feedback, to do so. english isn't my native english so a few lines may sound rude, this is not what i want... and thanks for the nice "asshole"

Well if thats true, then sorry about the asshole comment (I can be rather aggressive at times, heh).

 

[mek]

I can only speak personally, but in some cases many people giving the exact same feedback just gets very annoying

For example I recent about 3-4 e-mails a day saying more or less the same thing

So hopefully you can understand how after repliying to the 37th e-mail this gets a little bit of a pain!
I would prefer if people first thought "Does the programmer already know what I'm about to tell him?" and in the case of the sound question the answer would definitely be yes!

Great point!

Whenever I try a new game or app, I only give feedback when I can come up with something constructive. Most feedback I read is: great release, gimme more.

When I read Kojote's posts I get the idea devs actualy want this kind of crappy feedback. This is where we're getting to the "on your knees" part again. :huh:

 

[extremegamer]

People want critisicm, fine, developers, go to my site, the link is below next to the buddy icon vader and luke fighting, and see if your game is there. Currently only 19 games reviewed so far but more coming.

And I'm going to say that coding competitions are a bunch of crap too, on my site i'm not afraid to give a game a horrible review, if its horrible, but if you look at the people that judge, like GBAX, even the worst games the little reviews given are still praising the game. If you praise people for crap, you will continue to get crap. How do people know something needs fixed unless you tell them to fix it, you see it with emulators constantly, but never with homebrewn games.

There are tons of homebrewn games that would be great, if they just had a little more time put into them. But most are made for the competition and after that, never worked on again.

 

[raven]

I really don't agree with games / apps not getting praise,
look at the numerous posts about Spiv's and Aquafishes multifirmware, people praising YAFL and Wind-ups and discussing which ones to use. Games like NUMO, Perfect Fit and Puzzle Mix were praised to high heaven when released and there are tons of 'which games should I play' posts where people really show what games they love. Look at how ports like Doom and BOR are received and the number of posts Scummvm and Sarien get.

Unfortunately some games only get a little news-item on the front page and never make it to the forums, I agree that that is bad, both for the developers and the community. Some games/ apps can hardly be found, only when one of the 'oldtimers' starts talking about them everybody starts asking where you can get them (old compo results come to mind).

Then there are also a lot of games that simply do not deserve praise, they are not discussed either, it's not very nice to start bitching about somebody's work. It might be his first try and the next one might be great.

Feedback is another thing. If developers say they don't get enough feedback they are probably right, they are the ones that should know. The only way I can respond to this is from a users point of view:

The bad thing about a forum is that people are not likely to give you their opinion if it has been posted by someone else already, you only post if you think you have something new to say. I do think we could give better feedback but if you want good feedback you have to ask for it and I think you should be specific.

I think a lot of people are reluctant to give negative feedback, even if it is constructive. I also think a lot of people just do not know what your skills as a developer are and what they can/should ask for. Don't just post the beta and say 'what do you think', give some info on where you are going with it, what your plans are and what you want to know from us.

I think you'll find we are willing but don't always know what to say. Did I mention we love you guys

 

[look]

This works both ways.

This kind of blubbering gets on gp32 gamers nerves.

The scene needs a balance of dev'rs and gamers.

and we don't always have to butter each others parsnips.

If feedback is required then the project should go in beta test area.

also if the game in question was some kind of revelation in gaming I'm sure people would talk about it.

I don't have the foggiest what it is?

I liked the pong clone though







*correctingspelling*

 

[don]

how can you think that. ok, without devs theres no one releasing anything. but without the users who the fuck is going to use the apps? and importantly whose going to give the devs their much deserved feedback???

[...]

no another one. for fucks sake, craigix runs a business. for staters your slamming his opinion, something you have no right to do. if he thinks emus are more important, then you can't take that away from him, let alone be dissapointed!

[...]

this thread has no real back bone at all. the dev who it concerns is too pussy to be identified or do their own work. most board users are stating they do post feedback when required, and a few devs are fighting a losing battle against everyone.

Spray, I somewhat don't like your emotional way of discussion. We're grown-ups (at least we should be) and we're able to discuss on an objective base. Just because you don't understand how another individual thinks, there's no need to insult him or be offensive. Thank you!

Okay, about the "devs are the scene" thingy: Basically each and every homebrew scene starts with a developer who does things for himself. That's what people did with the ZX81 almost 25 years ago, that's what they did with Palm development, with GP32 and that's how it's going to work forever. When there's no reaction from the users, there is no need to give it out, simple as that.

About my thoughts about craigix: I didn't mean to be offensive at all. I'm really thankful for all the things craigix did for the homebrew scene. But after all the thing he's done, I can't understand his opinion about games and emulators. I know he doesn't give a shit if i'm disappointed. And that's okay. And we're moving in circles. you're slamming my opinion, something you said nobody has a right to. But that's what discussing is about.

About the rest: I can't understand why a lot of people keep behaving offensive when they're confronted with the low feedback rate. It's just a warning from a few developers. They can do stuff for themselves, keep it on their own SMC without giving it out to anyone. And if this is happening, it's wrong to say: "okay, you damn fucker, keep your shit game and shove it up your *beeeeep*!". That's one developer less, and it's a pity. No one says: "Hey, this guy is developer, he deserves to be praised, and I want to name my first born baby after him". It's just that if someone posts a news thread about a new game/app, he gets two or three responses for some hundred downloads. If you don't like the kind of game, nobody forces you to say "thank you!". It's not even about thanking him. It's about giving feedback what you like and what not. Two of my "products", flipover and gpaint32 (not GPPaint) had some feedback about what I could add, and during one afternoon I've added all the features people wanted and thus made it a better program for me and the people who actually use it.
You say that a few devs are fighting a losing battle against everyone, but to be honest, the developers can't lose that batlle, it's always the users who are losing software and developers. Have a look at rtb (or better known as Thor), he did the King of Fighters port - he'll move on to other platforms, and I really think he could've done some other cool games in the future, which he sadly doesn't.
But I agree on one thing: this thread doesn't make sense, at least as long as users feel offended by developers just because they aren't happy with the feedback rate.

 

[pocket]

...developers are so pissed about the GP32 community that they would not release a final version of their product for the GP32, but for any other platform such as Windows, Playstation 2, Linux, etc... caused by:

* too less feedback
* too many lame questions, but there is a description and faq's
* praising emulators more than "real" games for the gp32
* telling bad stuff to the developers

And now you... what would you say? Would you accept such a decision of the developers?

(And no, I won't tell the "product" name...)

I would say : lame question.

True, motivated developpers don't care much about this. Look at Yoyo, ThunderZ, Thor or MANY others... they work on their titles, without paying much attention when people are crying. In fact they don't loose much of their time on boards.

So if these couragous developers don't want to work for GP32... It's ok, they are free to do what they like. Don't care at all !

 

[don]

True, motivated developpers don't care much about this. Look at Yoyo, ThunderZ, Thor or MANY others...

You DO know that Thor is rtb on this board and he quit because of THAT reason?

 

[pocket]

True, motivated developpers don't care much about this. Look at Yoyo, ThunderZ, Thor or MANY others...

You DO know that Thor is rtb on this board and he quit because of THAT reason?

Exactly. Following boards is lost time for them. They don't like much the community sometimes, BUT they like working on GP32, and not because of people praising/crying etc.

 

[raven]

You DO know that Thor is rtb on this board and he quit because of THAT reason?

So I did a forum search for Thor and reread just about all the posts (most of them are about KOF). People are praising his work and thanking him and giving feedback all the time. Sure there are also a bunch of stupid questions but they don't outweigh the positive posts.

If there has been so much negativity surely it was not on these forums? I sure don't see it...

Edit: By the way: I remember downloading versions of KOF without any readme's at all, not an excuse for stupid questions but if you need different downloads and need to combine those before a game works stupid questions happen more often.

 

[rtb7]

true

shame on me !

Thor

 

[Aaaaaaaa]

So Thor, please dont leave!



WE LOVE YOU! :lol:

 

[kotd]

Ok from what I read it sounds like Kojote wants us to bow down to him. You are not better than me just because you can code. I do not have to give you feedback. 3 reasons why people may not give you feedback.
1. Your game/emu/app sucks ass and is not worth commenting on
2. Your game/emu/app is good enough to mention any improvements.
3. It seems obvious that the Dev know what still needs to be done. This is very evident in early game and emu stages.

My reason with Gianas Returns is number 2. I did not like it but I did not see any way the game would need improvements worth mentioning. It was just not my type of game but it was almost commercial quality. I've helped make games before and I never ask for feedback, I know what needs to be done most of the time.

I'll stick to helping fdave with Gigadrive if he still wants me to help.

 

[Kojote]

Dear kotd

I'm sure you are able to READ and UNDERSTAND this threat, for this, it's needed to read the WHOLE threat from the beginning to the last statement. Let me quote myself:

Each production is WORK, most of it given away for free. So the fuckin' least is that you send feedback. Shit on donations, feedback is important! This is what this threat is all about and not about any games where I am leveldesigner or something else.

This should clearly point out that I don't want someone to bow down to me, neither I would like this. As i mentioned already once: I want that people start sending feedback to developers who probably don't get that much attention and are disappointed about this.

I hope you got it now. It's not about me & it's not about Gianas Return. But someone has to motivate people to open their mind. Just put the fact aside that I have worked on any GP32 production. And if someone likes the game then motivate CHN, he would deserve it much more.

BTW I can't code

[EDIT]
Let me add another of my quotes which is important:

I am not obsessed to get feedback and I am really not keen on praise. Feedback can be either good or either bad. Both is more than appreciated. The problem is that NOONE is giving feedback. [...] Feedback takes less than half a minute and makes everyone happy, yes even WORSE feedback will make happy, because IT IS feedback.