What Would You Say If...

[sensible GP32]

I plan to do more to GigaDrive

i would love to see gigadrive work progress dave as i think having two emu's on the scene only improves the the quality of them both. personally i cant wait to see whats going to be in the next release of gigadrive.

keep up the good work

 

[raven]

Edit:
raven:
uhm, how to say this, right
your post sucks -_-
even if all the communities are the same lazy gimme-roms-pricks, that doesnt mean you have to accept it
what do you think, how many devr would quit if they're all like
"oh well cant be helped, i'm off"
the gp32 would die faster then you can find a way to express the buttons psx-pad with latin characters only
there are enough willing ppl in this community and the rest can get changed or will just get ignored

Your conclusion is wrong: because most communities are lazy gimme-roms-pricks you have to accept it and deal with the facts unless you think you can change the community (it won't work). Is that nice? No, but it's realistic and helps you grow a thicker skin.

There are two ways to deal with this problem. One is by going to the one or two communities people say are nice and develop for a dead system with an ever decreasing user base - which can be very rewarding though.
The other is coding because you want to do it for yourself, ignoring the assholes (which people should do, period) and asking for specific feedback if you want it (because that will make you grow).

These forums are already quite nice: when a new beta is released and someone complains it isn't perfect yet people already tell them to STFU, what more do you want? We can't protect developers from all assholes on the boards, IRC and through email, they will have to do that themselves (and I think most already do this).

It is not just this community, look at people in general: most people will try to bring you down rather than give you a compliment. Those are simple facts of life and you will have to learn to live with it. It sucks, it isn't right and I don't like it but it's there and you can't change it.

 

[EvilDragon]

It's not about only praising instead of posting your opinion.
You don't have to praise everything (would you praise me if I coded a "Hello World!" program on the GP32? Certainly not!)

Of course a program can have glitches and bugs - it's the way you tell them about.

In the project kojote was pointing to (no, I don't say what project it is!), I gave about 2-3 pages of my opinion back.
I wrote what I liked and also what I THINK would be better.

That's okay, it helps getting the program better.

But most complain only "That's shit!", "It has to be THAT way", or something like that. That's not constructive, that's destructive criticism.

The problem is: Most people only complain, and the one who LIKE the game don't post anything.
So there is mostly often only negative, destructive criticism left.

 

[triksR4rabits]

...developers are so pissed about the GP32 community that they would not release a final version of their product for the GP32, but for any other platform such as Windows, Playstation 2, Linux, etc... caused by:

* too less feedback
* too many lame questions, but there is a description and faq's
* praising emulators more than "real" games for the gp32
* telling bad stuff to the developers

And now you... what would you say? Would you accept such a decision of the developers?

(And no, I won't tell the "product" name...)

Well I must say that this is truly unfortunate if this is the case (which apparently it is). As for the poits you ave outlined, well

1) too less feedback seems to be a big problem and i believe it can be remedied by the individual deving the game. I believe that two stages should be employed- general feedback ("hey guys, whattaya think of this!") and more specific feedback that the dev is looking for, such as "how do you thinl this this and that can be improved" yada yada yada. Alot of the timed feedback isnt left because people dont know what to say- "wow, um, thats pretty cool!" dousnt really help. So more specific questions may serve as a remey to the feedback issue.

2) Okay, if theres one thing the gp has its lame questions, but this cannot be avvoided. The only way I see of helping this issue get better is that by the download section, Please chech the readme before playing is diplayed, and that may help abit.

3) Honestly, this question gives me alot of pain. Not many people can appreciate games, especially homebrew ones, and you cant expect everyone to love them either. Lets get serious- would you prefer a fun little homemade romp of a game or an emulator that allows you to play HUNDREDS of commercial quality games? Its no wonder why so much attention goes to emulators. This is something that will never change imho.

4) There is no excuse for this, unless the dev says something that deserves it. Why else would they be bashed? Perhaps from people who arent fond of their work or want the project to be sped up (the ignorant impatient bunch they are)? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this as I have not encountered it.

- And lastly, to devs leaving the scene, hey, its their choice. I dont expect them to stick aroound forever. Most begin deving for the gp for fun. Things come along, new projects happen, and the only thing we can hope is that they release their stuff open source when they decide their done deving for the gp.
I still dont understand why "developers are so pissed about the GP32 community." It's a pretty damn friendly community from what ive seen, but then again I'm not a dev. My 2 cents for your feedback anyway

 

[don]

I think most of you people get Kojote wrong, and I'm negatively surprised how many people are like "what the hell, go if you want to, we got enough developers anyway!".
First of all, I *do* think it's GP32 related. Even though people are helpful and nice to each other, they aren't supportive to developers. No, they ain't, really. If you try a game, why not tell the author what you like about it? That seems to work for certain developers (I think Akuma got good feedback rates) but then again, no matter what size the project is, others don't (see Giana). If you dislike something, that's okay. Nobody will take it bad if you're telling the developer that you don't like the game's difficulty.
BUT: don't tell him: your game is shit, your game sucks and your mother won a wrestling match against Hulk Hogan during Wrestlemania 3. Stay constructive!
And about that emulator/game discussion: Just imagine noone would ever make new games, we'd still have to play ZX81 games on an emulator, so be supportive to your local homebrew coder!

 

[woogal]

If your not allowed to give an honest opinion. Whats the point of having an opinion in the first place.

Thats the problem. Most people don't give ANY opinion, or they don't give enough detail (even bad feedback can be useful as long as you give a reason why you don't like something). Some people seem to assume that because something is in beta then it almost certainly will have bugs, so when they find them they don't bother to report them. Those same people are usually the first to complain when the app comes out of beta and it's still full of bugs. What developers need to produce good software are bug reports and constructive criticism. Comments like 'your app is crap and app X is much better' don't give any useful info at all to the developer. On the other hand 'I can't use your app because it is missing feature Y. I use app X instead because it contains that feature' gives the developer the info he needs to create a much better product. If a developer asks for feedback they're not doing it so they can print it out, frame it, and show it to their grandchildren in years to come, they're asking for it because the want to produce the best software they possibly can.

 

[Dozer]

This thread seems so stupid <_<. It was only the other day that rattboi was saying that not enough people were only saying how his works so good, not about now he couild improve it. Unless people take a different view on emulators or older software or something.

I don't really like how the coders seem to have their own leet group either. I know they're what keeps the community going, but you don't see people like squidge going "maybe I'll just release it to the devs in gp32dev". People respect devs, even more so if their work is of good quality, emulator or games or anything.

Maybe I'm missing a point and feel free to correct me. It's just my view right now.

 

[Tristan]

Ofcourse, the feedback problem can be solved fairly easily. Which is through #gp32dev. I was fortunate enough to get a hold of a private beta of Electronia, which was given to me by Akuma himself. I spent a few hours in private chat discussing what was possible or not, and what had to be done to make the game a little harder. In the end, only about 2 of my suggestions got into the game, changed by Akuma to be made workable. It gave me a sense of involvement in the game, even though I hardly did anything to it/with it. But Akuma was happy with the suggestions, and I was happy with the opportunity he gave me.

What I'm trying to say is, if people want good feedback about their game and maybe some fresh ideas I think it's best to give an early beta to the people who have shown interest on the board here or on GP32x, then only make a public release when you think it's ready, and doesn't need anything to change. Kind of like rlyeh did with fGen32, he only released the private betas on the retrodev mailing list, and I didn't see ONE post with anything negative, just positive feedback. (Ofcourse, this is an emu...)

 

[spray]

spray:
wtf?
what was the last app/game/demo/whatsoever that you released?
maybe thats true and the dever, those who hold the gp32 intact should only release their s/w in #gp32dev
oh yes, GREAT idea
also ppl shouldn't waste time on trying to use the gp32s real capabilities with innovative game-ideas and nice graphics, but should just write and contribute to emulators..
emulators are nice (want os9xgp fullspeed myself ^^), but nothing is better than original games
Edit:
also noone asks about falling on the knees infront of the devr

dude, what the hell are you talking about?

if you actually read my post you'd see that the best way (as other people have clarified) to get feedback on an app is to release it on #gp32/dev and then get real time responses as people use it, also your going to be dealing with a more selective group of people, not just the general board hoardes

what the hell you talking about emus for? i merely stated, in response to the original posters, that emus take just as much (maybe more, maybe less, i dunno) effort and time to create as games, yet devvers get pissed off when people likes an emu more than a game???

yeah, the falling on knees thing, that was a joke. it was just my way of responding to the situation. i think its lame if someone doesn't have the balls to fight their own battles, i got slammed for my opinion so showed the immaturity of this entire thing.

next time, read my god damn posts before you try and get all critical

just realising that you're an asshole and saying sorry is enough

i know you are, but what am i

 

[craigix]

I think if your obsessed with getting feed back, praise etc. etc. you have misguided views of the scene.

Stuff is getting released all the time, it gets a 2 or 3 day thread on here if its lucky and thats it... Gianas return (which is i assume what were talking about since this is the 3rd or 4th time you have moaned about no feedback) got its attention and I believe quite a long thread, but its over you can't expect being to keep talking about it.

This is just how it goes.

If you don't like it then don't release it, its a shame you feel you have to keep bringing it up. Its a great game, but its not the first Giana/mario clone...

I just code for fun... feedback is nice, but I don't go hunting for it...

And of course emulators are going to get more attention - they require serious work, time and skill and allow hundreds more games to be played - they are more important that homebrew because of what they do.

-Craig

www.gbax.com

 

[trooper]

This thread is usless, You`ve only got to look back a few weeks to see how much feedback was given to various developers. Fgens, Gigadrive, Os9xgp, the guy who made "perfect fit" and two other games. Look at the feed back GPadvance is getting and castaway had it own thread (Forum, It had its own forum) for god sake that went on for dozens of pages. Gpwar is another one, The list goes on and on and on and etc.

But i guess theres not enough feedback. :rolleyes:

Get real.

Trooper

 

[sebastian_insua]

I think the problem is there is no such thing as "enough feedback"

I try to priase the developers who release something i like, but i can only praise them once before i start to sound a bit obsessed...

 

[Aaaaaaaa]

I think we are spoilt, and i feel ashamed on behalf of the community.

I was thinking about the feedback.

I often dont try certain things, so it is my fault for no feedback.

But other times, i fell myself at a loss for words. Some-times the game in question seems nondescript, or just plain bad. in the latter case, i dont mention anything, so i dont offend the creators.

Emulators sometimes get praise over an individual game. Home-gp games are one game, but an emulator is many, therefore there is more to discuss concernin an emulator.




I will try and be a better community member in the future...






I cant belite thor quit....

 

[don]

I think if your obsessed with getting feed back, praise etc. etc. you have misguided views of the scene.

[...]

And of course emulators are going to get more attention - they require serious work, time and skill and allow hundreds more games to be played - they are more important that homebrew because of what they do.

First of all, I think it's the developer who "is" the scene in the first place. It's not about getting praise, it's about getting reactions. Sorry, but if you download a game from a page that says: please leave feedback after playing my game, and you can get the game for free, why not just do what the developer wants? It's not that it'll cost $100 to say: "i liked the game, maybe you should add more levels".
I'm a bit disappointed about your point of view regarding emulators. Sure, GP32 emulators are essential for your GP32 sales at GBAX, but that doesn't mean they're more important than any other homebrew product. Important for what? Sales? The GP32 scene (which is, as i stated, the developers in the first place)? I really don't think you can just say they're more important.
You sound as if programming games wouldn't be serious work that take time and skills. You really should know better! Sure, there are people who do it for their own fun who don't give a shit about other people's opinions, but a lot (if not most) developers from #gp32dev are pissed because no one gives feedback when feedback is wanted.
Maybe the GP32 users will stop thinking like that when the first "important" emulator coders quit coding for the GP32 because they lack feedback.

 

[Mosch]

Whatr is the problem everyone has with emulators being praised more than homebrew games? I like our SNES emulator, because I like many SNES games. The thing is: The SNES had so many games that most people will find some they like and therefore like the emulator because it enables them to play those. Now Akuma may have programmed some great games, but rankly I don't care because I don't like puzzle games. My kudos for doing the projects, but don't expect anythimg from me because I don't like the genre. That does not mean I don't appreciate what he did, but why should I thank him on behalf of others?

I know how it can feel. I do not dev for the GP32, but I did a rather extensive RA2 mod. It was technically superb (don't mean to nag, but it's a fact) and did not only have new units from scratch, but also new graphics, new icons, new music, new sounds. Short of a new campaign, I did everything possible for a modder, and I even introduced some possibilitied to the world of AR2-modding that have been thought of before (afaik).
The bottom line is: Nobody ever told me anything about it (Well, I got a single Mail from someone who asked me if I would continue my mod). I was never mentioned when people asked for good mods. Nobody ever even played it with me, so I always had to play against the Computer. The mod was unbelievably much work and it was freaking hard at times too (try finding amateur voice actors who will help you!), but I don't care. I liked my mod and I played it, because I did it for me and for me only. It was an added bonus that some people more would enjoy it.

Now that all sounds pretty self-absorbed, but it illustrates my point. I know it is hard work to release something playable, and I know how it fells if people seemingly don't give a rat's ass. That's why you have to have passion for your work. Don't program for others, do it for yourself, and if you don't want to do it anymore, tell them and bam, it's over. I have no respect for developers who demand something from me, try to blackmail me: "Be nice to me or I won't give you the new version!". If you want feedback, ask and ye shall recieve. If you don't want to be nagged by impatient morons who dare you to release the new version, just bathe in the knowledge that they are completely ignorant and not worth your time. If you desre praise and praise alone, go away. I will tell people if I like their games, but dot expect me to lick your shoes clean.

And NOW I feel better

 

[Kojote]

I think if your obsessed with getting feed back, praise etc. etc. you have misguided views of the scene.

Stuff is getting released all the time, it gets a 2 or 3 day thread on here if its lucky and thats it... Gianas return (which is i assume what were talking about since this is the 3rd or 4th time you have moaned about no feedback) got its attention and I believe quite a long thread, but its over you can't expect being to keep talking about it.

This is just how it goes.

If you don't like it then don't release it, its a shame you feel you have to keep bringing it up. Its a great game, but its not the first Giana/mario clone...

I just code for fun... feedback is nice, but I don't go hunting for it...

And of course emulators are going to get more attention - they require serious work, time and skill and allow hundreds more games to be played - they are more important that homebrew because of what they do.

-Craig

Dear Craig

I am not obsessed to get feedback and I am really not keen on praise. Feedback can be either good or either bad. Both is more than appreciated. The problem is that NOONE is giving feedback. The Giana's Return project is not the only project which lacks of feedback, I talked to a couple of other developers and they have exactly the same problem. If you give something away for free you can at least hope for feedback and not seeing plain dumb stats telling you, your game has been downloaded 5000 times this month but noone writes a single line. Feedback takes less than half a minute and makes everyone happy, yes even WORSE feedback will make happy, because IT IS feedback.

An example of writing feedback "Hello <insert name here>. I like/disklike your product because... Regards <insert your name here>". This takes really one minute and I give feedback myself to things.

I don't know how you get the idea that I talk about Giana's Return as I started this threat as a general problem, Giana's will surly get's it attention when the final is out, no worries about that.

There are at least a dozens of developers I know which are unhappy with the GP32 User feedback. Most of them consider to go away from GP32 developing or to keep their projects for themself or in a small circle of selected people. If developers start to think this way (I'm doing that myself right now) the GP32 will not have a great future in seeing new software.

Regarding the emulators:

Of course it's great to see Genesis and Super Nintendo things running on the GP32, but there is "real" software for the GP32, written for the GP32 itself. I assume most bought the GP32 just for emulation and I'm sure this ist the greatest argument you can get people to buy a GP32. I gave feedback to a couple of ryleh's emulaters and also donated money to him, even if i rarly play any games on any platform.

Each production is WORK, most of it given away for free. So the fuckin' least is that you send feedback. Shit on donations, feedback is important! This is what this threat is all about and not about any games where I am leveldesigner or something else.

Don't you like it if someone gives feedback on your doom port? What would you say if you see 5000 downloads a month but no ass is talking about it? And again... I am not talking about Gianas Return, there are other projects which never got a single line of attention beside a small newspost.

Projects are stopped because of low feedback or people switch over ot another system. If everyone would have just one minute of time to write someone a few lines... this is motivating and will encourage people to do more stuff for the GP32!

Think about it and have a nice day

 

[Dozer]

Ugh, people give feedback in my oppinion. Ask for it and you'll get even more. This seems a picky and irritating topic <_<.

I respect and thank the devs for the hardwork they do. And give ideas on how to improve it if that's what they seem to want, as do a lot of others in the community.

I wasn't aware that dev's were crying over people not giving them ideas for their projects either to be honest.

Edit: What projects do you refer to that get no feedback?

 

[Kojote]

Edit: What projects do you refer to that get no feedback?

Please understand that I can not say who the people are who complain about that, maybe they will point it out themself at the correct time and the correct place.

 

[Dozer]

Edit: What projects do you refer to that get no feedback?

Please understand that I can not say who the people are who complain about that, maybe they will point it out themself at the correct time and the correct place.

Ah ok. No worries.

It's a bit ironic that they complain in private about not getting enough feedback though. Give us feedback on a project per project basis on what you want analysing if that's what you want.

 

[Kojote]

Those people I talk about wanted explicit feedback but did not get it. The sense of this threat is to open the eyes of a few people. We will see how it turns out. Maybe the one or other starts to write now what he think about his favorites. All discussion here would be senseless if I tell you <insert a nickname here> was complaining to me, as everyone would flood him with feedback now. This is just not the sense. Write feedback to everyone if you like something.