What Goes On With The Xgp?

[OrR]

I still don't buy your argument. Why shouldn't there be a market for a more open device with independent and different games and better media player capabilities? The answer to this is "because the Zodiac and GP2X are already here", not "because the PSP is already here".

 

[Radek]

I still don't buy your argument. Why shouldn't there be a market for a more open device with independent and different games and better media player capabilities? The answer to this is "because the Zodiac and GP2X are already here", not "because the PSP is already here".

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Well... the arguments can twisted to infinitum if we want... :rolleyes:

The GP2x is simply not dependant on the commercial software. The same thing can not be said about PSP and the XGP too. I personally don't like Sony as company and think its brand is a way overrated. However the XGP being more sophisticated than the GP2x (hardware 3d, bigger screen, far more focused on a commercial games) and more costly, it will be competing directly with the PSP. And as history had been showing a brand presence and software abundance is an everything to a success of game console.

Imagine yourself a developer. You have an already established PSP market with possible millions of units sold. Then the XGP comes with just handfull units sold, with far weaker brand recognition and better specs. But better specs won't substitute for far bigger consumer base of PSP. Would you risk your company for a unproven newcomer when developing for the PSP you have guaranteed thousands of possible customers already?

You know, a business isn't a voluntarism. If your don't profit then you're just a walking dead.

The difference with the GP2x is it's a niche product with added appeal with its mediaplayer functions. Even if no one commercial game shows for it it won't be big deal for the GP2x. You aren't really buying a console gaming platform with a GP2x. Your're buying a general purpose device in a form of a handheld console.

For sure if the XGP manage its costs low enough, will be open enough and be backed by business entity strong enough then it might get somewhere. It could then tops the PSP eventually but here are many "ifs".

 

[OrR]

I don't know... IS the XPG dependant on commercial software? Is it sold at a loss?
I think the "competing directly with the PSP" can be said about the GP2X as well. It's obvious on the media player side both are competing. But they are also competing on the emulation side even though Sony does not want it. If the PSP gets great emulators, it's directly taking away market share from teh GP2X.
Of course the XGP will always stay a niche product as will the GP2X. The question is whether they will be able to carve out a big enough niche. It looks good for the GP2X. For the XGP not much can be said, yet.

 

[Rob]

Radek don't draw fast conclusions about the XGP specifications because Gameapark has started the handhled all over so we might have somthing completely different than the one shown in the contest. And the XGP may not be cheaper than the GP2X but will be cheaper than the PSP Value Pack. Somewhere around the Gizmondo US price is definetely not bad. If it is a GSM it may attract the N-Gage customers and if not the most successful handhled the 2.1 million N-Gage consoles sold is definetely better than the 30.000 GP32's and if Gamepark grab even 1/4 of that customers it will be pretty well for them but as you have written before it all depends on the cash for advertisements because even for reaching the unsatisfying for the N-Gage number up to now Nokia have wasted pretty much millions a cash that GamePark just doesn't have. Although that it is still superior for commercial games, music, videos, text documents and 3D homebrew than the GP2X with the announced but unconfirmed specs.

 

[Radek]

I don't know... IS the XPG dependant on commercial software? Is it sold at a loss?

We don't know yet as it isn't sold yet. We really know a very little about the XGP, the business plan and everything else. I'm basing my opinions strictly on a speculations and nothing more. Don't be angry at me because of it. However knowing about the GamePark's split it's really clear there had to be disagreement at a very fundamental level.

I think the "competing directly with the PSP" can be said about the GP2X as well. It's obvious on the media player side both are competing. But they are also competing on the emulation side even though Sony does not want it. If the PSP gets great emulators, it's directly taking away market share from teh GP2X.

Yes, yes! All these device have an overlapping appeal. But the GP2x is far more friendly to an user.

Of course the XGP will always stay a niche product as will the GP2X. The question is whether they will be able to carve out a big enough niche. It looks good for the GP2X. For the XGP not much can be said, yet.

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Imho the plan with the XGP is to break beyond a niche. It'll be handheld with high (perhaps highest at the time) specs focused directly to become a new market leader. Today the king is the PSP so in an order to became a new ruler the XGP will have to face a PSP in a direct competition. This all is imho of course.

The XGP might ends as better version of GP2x as well. The future is an open ended at the moment.

 

[OrR]

GP can't win a direct competition with the PSP and they know it. That's why the seem to try to make it into a portable TV and a phone. The specs are also only close to PSP level. I don't think they will risk selling it at a loss, and if they want to make it cheaper than the PSP, they'll have difficulties competing with it's specs.
I have to admit I really can't solve the gordian knot that is the XGP...

 

[Epicenter]

XGP won't work, if it comes out. They need third party support and no major third parties are going to jump for a console from a company whose prior system is famed for how well it runs emulators from the industry's former generations of games-- it'd be a legal nightmare. And there won't be a thousandth of the commercial homebrew effort needed to support a system that even make a blip on the industry's radar.

Gp2x has totally different goals in mind and works great as an 'underground' console. That's why it will succeed.

 

[Alpha2]

Just because a system CAN run emulators dosent mean that's all it'll be known for, just look at the PSP. The XGP is Definatly aimed at competing with PSP Gamepark said it themselves, not something you do if you already know there no way they can compete. Obviously they can't but Gamepark seems to think they can some how, which is probably the reason for the extra tv and cellphone features.

My belief is that the XGP will be targeted more towards PC gamers with lots of First person shooters and Korean MMORPGs of which there are tons, where as the PSP is a Console gamer product. Gamepaark would like nothing better than to push something other than Emulators, hell they didn't even want the GP32 to become such a device but they had no choice as it wasnt selling as a GBA competitor they had to find a differnt marketshare to tap and I think the Korean PC game fans are their best bet. The can chase the people who create Golf MMORPGs or Ragnorok online or Maple Story as well as small companies with first person shooters and never have to worry about Capcom or Konami or any world wide developer.

Another thing to concider is that they probably have no intention of selling it outside of Korea. They could make it fine if they dont attempt a world wide sale as they really would get murdered in the US and Japan.

As for the GP2X it's not really in competition with anything aside from the Homebrew dev scene that really really wants to use something as powerful as the PSP. As long as the PSP remains an appealing environment for emulator makers and hackers it will have a dev scene. The GP2X has the hearts of the GP32 scene for the most part and isnt facing the aggressivness of Sony's combative nature. There's not as much anger to the creators of the hardware as there is with the PSP so that bodes well for this community, people will eventually grow tired of fighting with sony and break off, yeah there will always be people fighting the fight for Homebrew on the PSP but no one wants to fight for the rest of the life of the system and that's what they're in for. The XGP might be a stronger system but Gamepark is not likely to offer the same enthusiasum or help to the home brew community if they had such a different focuse that GPH felt they had to leave and make their own device.

The PSP was never meant to run Homebrew, it was meant to play commercial games and UMD movies as well as music, photos and lower quality personal movies on memory stick. It's not an aftermarket plaything and they see the community as an undesireable perversion of their creation, this will never change because it dosent fit into Sony's view of the product. This is more like the way GamePark seems to want to react as they didnt want the GP32 to become what it did but they dont want to scare off the people who loved the GP32 so they offered the SDK.

 

[Epicenter]

XGP won't work, if it comes out. They need third party support and no major third parties are going to jump for a console from a company whose prior system is famed for how well it runs emulators from the industry's former generations of games

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Gamepaark would like nothing better than to push something other than Emulators, hell they didn't even want the GP32 to become such a device but they had no choice as it wasnt selling as a GBA competitor they had to find a differnt marketshare to tap and I think the Korean PC game fans are their best bet. The can chase the people who create Golf MMORPGs or Ragnorok online or Maple Story as well as small companies with first person shooters and never have to worry about Capcom or Konami or any world wide developer.

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If Gamepark ever thought the system COULD compete with the GBA they were kidding themselves. A small company like them doesn't have the marketing power or name brand recognition to compete with Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo in the market. The only way Sony barged in with the PS1 was because the company had so much money from its decades of selling media players and discs that they could hire a team of 1,000 employees to shovel cash into a furnace for 60 years without having to leave the industry. They don't even have to turn a profit anymore to keep selling their systems and licensed games.

And why did you go on this long rant about the PSP's true purpose and the system of choice for homebrewers? I didn't even touch on that, I just said the XGP was an unappealing system for homebrewers due to its closed nature and it wasn't going to suceed in the worldwide gaming market.

 

[Alpha2]

I wasnt dissagreeing with you persay in fact some of the things you said I was agreeing with. I was just voiceing my own opinion about how people view these systems. The XGP is meant by Gamepark to NOT be seen as the type of device the GP32 turned into.

Game park was dissapointed at the GP32 becoming the system is is today, they WANTED a korean GBA, that was it's purpose and the Video playback was supposed to be it's leg up. I also think this was another example of them not thinking outside of Korea.

 

[Epicenter]

I wasnt dissagreeing with you persay in fact some of the things you said I was agreeing with. I was just voiceing my own opinion about how people view these systems. The XGP is meant by Gamepark to NOT be seen as the type of device the GP32 turned into.

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Well, clearly the part of the company with realistic goals left when GPH was formed, because the XGP makes no sense being sustained only by Gamepark. If they were to say, get Sega/Sammy or Microsoft to officially support it (this company must be able to put up with pissing money if it's a failure and probably selling the machines at a loss to undercut Sony and Nintendo's prices), put a big-name company's name on it, and line up first, second and third party developers in real contractual agreements to develop software for it, they could succeed.

Selling it on their own? They lack the money, marketing presence and name brand recognition required to get anywhere except, as you said, perhaps in Korea.

 

[Alpha2]

Exactly, thats why I see them going after small Korean publishers(of which there are PLENTY to sustain them for some time) for games, if they ever make it outside of korea with the XGP it will be after they make enough money off their own people buying portable versions of korean PC games.

 

[Radek]

Selling it on their own? They lack the money, marketing presence and name brand recognition required to get anywhere except, as you said, perhaps in Korea.

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Didn't the GPH sold to other company apparently? So isn't it that funny the less ambitious GP2x already has something we can call a business backing entity? Of course not to the level of Sony or even Nintendo but it does show that someone thinks it won't be a failure.

With XGP we don't even know if it will be sold worldwide... :unsure: