Wares Did He Get These From I Wonder?

[trooper]

There are two different arguments here, One is about downloading stuff, Be it warez, Freeware, Movies, Music etc.

The other is about SELLING stuff, Be it warez, Freeware, Movies, Music etc.

See the difference,

Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling
Downloading <> Selling

Does everyone that didn`t get it, Understand now.

Btw, Most people here own GP32, Which has a label attached because it has very weak support on the commercial software front. So it`s main use is through homebrew, Emulation (roms), Movies (dvd-rips, Downloads), Ports (warez eg. wads, paks etc), Music (Rips, Downloads). The thing is, How many people who own GP32`s actually SELL the stuff they download.

Thats the difference.

Trooper

 

[bast525]

*sigh* no you guys are not getting the point still... seems this is an argument that could spiral for days.


Can at least one person aknowledge and reply to this one fact, please? ---> How is he 'selling' the software when he makes it PERFECTLY clear in his auction description that everything included on the DVD is FREEWARE, in other words, that you COULD, if you WANTED to, easily go and find this stuff and download it for your self for free?


That seems perfectly clear to me, that he is not making a profit by selling this software, though you could say, he is using the software as a means to make a profit. Figure that one out What he is offering is a service, his time and work in finding, downloading, compiling, burning, and shipping the fruits of his labors to you on one convenient DVD. But he says to any prospective buyer, right up front 'Hey just so you know, all this stuff is freeware, you don't HAVE to pay for it'. For any devvers who don't want him 'selling your stuff' well, you have the power to do something about it. Too much of a pain to sue? Okay, well you yourself pointed out your alternatives... email him and tell him not to sell your stuff, or email ebay and tell them to remove the auction. There ARE things you can do if you really feel you're being wronged here. If you choose not to, how is it that you still even feel you have the reason to complain? You're choosing to do nothing about it.... "why bother?" you say. Well then there it is, "why bother" complaining about it.

EvilDragon - you make a great point. You offer your own service as well, for free, for any of us to come and download any of this stuff. And really, that makes me wonder, why all the fuss over this guy and his DVD, when really, what chance has he of selling very many of them? I mean, almost anyone with a GP32 probably has the internet, and can easily find places like this to get their GP stuff for free. None of us are going to support this guy by buying his DVD. For anyone who does spend money to get what they could get for free, well then that's their loss. Laugh it up at their expense...

trooper - seems to me there is one argument here, it's about people doing stuff they shouldn't be doing. Illegal downloading or distributing of files... is still illegal, wether there is money involved or not. I don't see how this guy selling his DVD's full of freeware is any worse than anyone else downloading 10,000 illegal mp3's or roms for free.

 

[EvilDragon]

Can at least one person aknowledge and reply to this one fact, please? ---> How is he 'selling' the software when he makes it PERFECTLY clear in his auction description that everything included on the DVD is FREEWARE, in other words, that you COULD, if you WANTED to, easily go and find this stuff and download it for your self for free?

​

That one's easy:
He's CHARGING MONEY FOR IT!
What do you think SELLING is?

To SELL = give someone something in return for money

And the stuff he sells doesn't belong to him.

By law he's only allowed to charge THE EXACT SAME VALUE HE PAYS FOR THE DVD-R.
As soon as he charges more, it's commercial trade and therefore he needs all the licenses for the program he offers. And he doesn't have these. Therefore, it's illegal

Now, imagine I wouldn't offer the stuff on my archive for free.
Let's say, if everyone pays 5 Euro a month, he can download, otherwise, he has to look for this stuff himself.
Wouldn't you say this is SELLING the stuff?
It indeed is, and I would have to ask the dev'rs for a license, whether it's freeware or not.

As said, the law says:
You may sell freely available stuff for the price of the medium you burn / copy it to.
You may not charge more, even if it took you a lot of work to gather the stuff.
Because: This would be charging for your work, making it commercially (get money for working), and as soon as it gets commercial, you need the permissions of the authors, even for freeware.

 

[trooper]

trooper - seems to me there is one argument here, it's about people doing stuff they shouldn't be doing. Illegal downloading or distributing of files... is still illegal, wether there is money involved or not. I don't see how this guy selling his DVD's full of freeware is any worse than anyone else downloading 10,000 illegal mp3's or roms for free.

​

But, Do we advertise that fact, Emblazened across a web page on a VERY public site for ALL to see ?, I think not.

Trooper

 

[Blah]

Check this out (Ebay):

This is an auction for the original GP32 system with 2 128mb SMC cards packed with software and games. The system itself is in near perfect condition (no screen scratches either) and has been flashed with the Boot Selector software which allows you to boot Wind-Ups, PC-Link, Pacrom, and the original firmware. The system currently defaults to Wind-Ups which looks much like the Windows OS. The GP32 can be used to play MP3s, Divx, Emulators, and tons of free software available on the internet.
ALSO FREE SHIPPING IN THE US!!!

Here is a list of software that is included on the two SMC cards:

Games
DyHard Infinity
Dungeon and Guarder
Little Wizard
Her Knights
Wolfenstein 3d(Full)
Doom(Full)
Sokoban
Some freeware that was found online

Emulators
ScummVM(Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island 1&2, Sam & Max preinstalled)
Msx emulator
PCEngine
Nes
Gameboy
Atari St
Sega Master System and Game Gear
Atari800

Notice the 10 commerical games and the possibility of many roms.

or

GP32 FLU 166MHz, not Nintendo DS Game Boy Color SP






This is the FLU version not a new BLU+ that has problems running many programs including Snes emulator, DOOM and more. This GP32 FLU is NOW no longer available to purchase in stores, so it is the best option if you want lit screen and to be able to run all games and applications.

Look! Even www.lik-sang.com and www.gbax.com no longer sells them! Users report that FLU screens are 10% brighter than BLU screens when used in daylight. This is a 166 MHZ EDITION - so you can take advantage of the extra power that it offers over the standard 133Mhz systems.

Items Included:

Brand New GP32 FLU clocked at 166MHz on the picture you can see the system even has the original screen protector film. W/ Retail Box & Instructions, GP32 to PC USB Linker Cable + a 128MB Smart Media card, The card is loaded with emulators and 250 games, GP Cinema, GP Viewer and more, the emulators is, emulator of GameBoy-GameBoy Color = 57 games, emulator of Game Gear-Sega master system = 48 games, emulator of PC Engine-TurboGrafx = 50, emulator of NES=50 games, emulator of SNES= 15 games, emulator of Sega Genesis 30 games. Total is 250 Games. + Bonus if the auction price goes higher than $250.00 I will include a 2 CD w/ game for SNES and Sega Genesis, #1 CD it have 812 games for SNES, and #2 CD 1039 games for Sega Genesis.


GP32 FLU Features:
Mega Powerful 166MHZ CPU, perfect for emulators! (Exclusive to GBAX)
Uses standard Smart Media - totally open source console, supported by GCC & Codewarrior.
Plays MP3's, DivX movies, AVI, Wav, WMA, OGG etc.
Emulates NES, SNES, Sega Master System, Spectrum, Commodore 64, Atari ST/800/2600, GB/GBC, PCEngine, Genesis/Megadrive, SG1000, Various Arcade, MSX1/2, Neogeo pocket, Gamegear etc.
Can play many PC games Eg. Doom, Heretic, Monkey Island series, lucasarts games...
Has a Linux port which supports the erricson keyboard.
Comes with Linker kit + Software - connects right to your PC out the box!
Takes 2 AA batteries for 5+ hours play, also 3v socket.

Notice the 250 roms on the SMC, and the 1851 roms on the cds. And the text stolen from Craig. He is also saying that you get the cd if the bid goes over $250. That equals profit from roms.

Also they both have 100% feedback...

 

[bast525]

Can at least one person aknowledge and reply to this one fact, please? ---> How is he 'selling' the software when he makes it PERFECTLY clear in his auction description that everything included on the DVD is FREEWARE, in other words, that you COULD, if you WANTED to, easily go and find this stuff and download it for your self for free?

​

That one's easy:
He's CHARGING MONEY FOR IT!
What do you think SELLING is?

To SELL = give someone something in return for money

And the stuff he sells doesn't belong to him.

By law he's only allowed to charge THE EXACT SAME VALUE HE PAYS FOR THE DVD-R.
As soon as he charges more, it's commercial trade and therefore he needs all the licenses for the program he offers. And he doesn't have these. Therefore, it's illegal

Now, imagine I wouldn't offer the stuff on my archive for free.
Let's say, if everyone pays 5 Euro a month, he can download, otherwise, he has to look for this stuff himself.
Wouldn't you say this is SELLING the stuff?
It indeed is, and I would have to ask the dev'rs for a license, whether it's freeware or not.

As said, the law says:
You may sell freely available stuff for the price of the medium you burn / copy it to.
You may not charge more, even if it took you a lot of work to gather the stuff.
Because: This would be charging for your work, making it commercially (get money for working), and as soon as it gets commercial, you need the permissions of the authors, even for freeware.

​

well then again I say, if what he's doing is really so bad, if it's truly against the law, then for those of you whom it bothers so much, or for the devvers who's rights are being infringed upon, why not do something about it, other than just start a thread here to complain about it? I don't see how threads like this popping up ever other day helps anything. And I still dont see how charging for his time and effort transfers into 'selling the software for profit', but whatever, I'm going to just agree to disagree on this one. By the way, there lots of websites that do charge a membership fee before you can download stuff from them... usually, this fee is cited as a means of covering bandwidth costs, and I don't feel that constitutes 'selling' the content... you aren't being charged per download. If you charged a monthly fee here I wouldn't consider it as selling the content either.

 

[psj3809]

I really don't get your points, people. Why should forget about my copyrights? Just because the rest of the gp32 scene has roms on their SMC?
I'm no hypocrit. I don't use emulators on the gp32 (I basically bought it for development, and I enjoy playing homebrew stuff), therefore i don't have roms. Yes, I download mp3s and movies, and that ain't even illegal in my country, even if the RIAA and the MPAA make you believe it. And the best part of it: I ain't selling it. So stop calling me a hypocrit.

​

I dont know what country you are in, i presume Germany and you are saying that mp3's and downloading movies isnt illegal in your country ?

Well nor is taking GP32 stuff from the web and putting it on cd to sell on ebay is it ?

Are you seriously saying you think its legal to put mp3's and movies on your machine ? Yes there 'may' not be a law in your country for that (sure as hell there is) but you seem to think what you are doing is ok because your not selling it. I'm sure any film studios dont care that you are not selling it, either way theyre losing out on money as you arent going to a cinema to see the film or renting it out at a video store etc. Also the same with music, those music companies are losing out.

I'm not saying what this guy is doing is right, no its not. But then again if people are stupid to pay for this (instead of downloading it from the net) or they buy it because they have a slow modem etc etc then i dont see the problem. Theres MUCH MUCH worse things happening out there in the world !

Okay you dont have roms on your GP32 but the majority do and i dont see those original programmers etc getting any money for their hard work they did years ago. Beatles records are 40 years old but its not right to just get free copies of all their music is it ? Similar to games, what makes it okay for people to put 100 of these on their GP32 ?

Like i say companies such as Retro Arcade ( http://www.onyabikesite.co.uk/parts.asp?s=CD&sub=arcade ) are much worse than some kid selling a few cd's on ebay.

Theres tons of rom sites on the net, a fair few people selling emulators and roms on ebay, so what ? Hes not gonna retire on the money he makes from them and like i say the majority (not you of course) use their GP32 for roms so we are hypocrites. Doesnt matter that we're not selling the roms we're no angels as we're playing these illegal mp3's or game roms.

 

[psj3809]

As said, the law says:
You may sell freely available stuff for the price of the medium you burn / copy it to.
You may not charge more, even if it took you a lot of work to gather the stuff.
Because: This would be charging for your work, making it commercially (get money for working), and as soon as it gets commercial, you need the permissions of the authors, even for freeware.

​

I'm sure the law does say you cant download roms of games you dont own (or i think even if you own them) and i'm sure Nintendo and others arent happy by many of their games being made as roms for download off the net.

Specially more so when Nintendo are re-releasing many older games (However its a catch 22 as if it wasnt for the likes of us all making retro popular Nintendo would never make money from these old games).

Its also illegal to speed on roads etc but i'm sure we all do it.

On the huge scale of things i dont see what the big fuss is. Yes this guy shouldnt be selling these cd's and if idiots buy them then let them. Theres tons of illegal content on ebay (eg american TV shows put onto DVD for people in other countries to watch) , Arcade machines with all the MAME roms put on them, people selling emulators with tons of roms etc etc. Even some big name shops in England sell these emulator/rom cd's, i dont think they release that thats illegal.

But like i say when i play roms on my GP32 (What the majority of people use it for) and have mp3's on my machine how the hell can i preach about someone whether theyre giving it away or selling it. Yes on the 'scale' of things hes worse as hes selling it but we're no angels either.

 

[EvilDragon]

well then again I say, if what he's doing is really so bad, if it's truly against the law, then for those of you whom it bothers so much, or for the devvers who's rights are being infringed upon, why not do something about it, other than just start a thread here to complain about it?

Well, read my first post in his thread, I don't care about him.
I cared about MrGPDVD, because he wanted 10 pounds per DVD, and that would make him a very good profit.

This guy here doesn't make much profit, so I really don't care.

Still, it's illegal.
Yes, it's illegal for me to have old roms (though I have hundreds of old original NES, Genesis, etc. games), but I don't SELL making money from stuff I don't own.

The music industry doesn't care about a few private guys who have a few downloaded MP3s - they care about the ones OFFERING (even FREELY OFFERING).

Most here have roms, but don't offer them anywhere for download.

And I still dont see how charging for his time and effort transfers into 'selling the software for profit', but whatever, I'm going to just agree to disagree on this one.

Well, as said, I also don't have a problem in his case (as he sells it for a low fee).
But doing something and charging money for it is doing commercial work by law, and if he does anything commercial, he needs the licences for what he does.

By the way, there lots of websites that do charge a membership fee before you can download stuff from them... usually, this fee is cited as a means of covering bandwidth costs, and I don't feel that constitutes 'selling' the content... you aren't being charged per download. If you charged a monthly fee here I wouldn't consider it as selling the content either.

​

Yeah, but it's the very same here:
You're only allowed to charge the value you have to pay for the bandwidth they use.
As everyone has a different download behaviour, you have to gather some statistics first and then charge according to your results.

You are NOT allowed to charge for the time and work you put into it and thus earn money (only if the dev'rs are okay with that).

BTW: On most of these sites, they have the permissions of the authors, so they can charge whatever they want.

 

[don]

Are you seriously saying you think its legal to put mp3's and movies on your machine ? Yes there 'may' not be a law in your country for that (sure as hell there is) but you seem to think what you are doing is ok because your not selling it. I'm sure any film studios dont care that you are not selling it, either way theyre losing out on money as you arent going to a cinema to see the film or renting it out at a video store etc. Also the same with music, those music companies are losing out.

​

Yes, it is legal. We still have the right for a private copy - which has lately been narrowed because music/film industry and our government work hand in hand *cough* - It's allowed to make a backup of your friend's CD for your own use - we're paying a small amount with each CDR or DVDR we're buying to an organization (GEMA) which divides that money among the artists. Same for DVDs (I'm not 100% sure about CSS encrypted DVDs though, I think we have some kind of DMCA spinoff for some time now).
Apart from that - warezing stuff is something completely different from selling stuff you don't have a license for. See EvilDragon's point about the 'verbatim costs' eg. media price.
See my point about Rockstar software.
I think it's not only a legal obligation to respect homebrew author's copyrights, it's also a matter of respect for the whole scene. Coders do their stuff, they often don't get feedback, thanks or donations (apart from killer apps like DrMD) and yet some people don't even respect their copyright. Isn't exactly a cozy place to release your stuff into, huh?

 

[EvilDragon]

Same for DVDs (I'm not 100% sure about CSS encrypted DVDs though, I think we have some kind of DMCA spinoff for some time now).

​

You are allowed to make private copies, but you are not allowed to use any software or hardware to override copy protection.

Thus, copying CSS encrypted DVDs or CDs with copy protection is illegal, even for private copies.

 

[psj3809]

Yes, it is legal. We still have the right for a private copy - which has lately been narrowed because music/film industry and our government work hand in hand *cough* - It's allowed to make a backup of your friend's CD for your own use

Well i must admit i have never heard of that before.

People who i've spoken to before who know copyright law etc have never said having a 'backup' of a friends CD is ok or dvd etc.

You'll be telling me next its 100% legal to own every single rom on a GP32 next.

Sorry but of all the discussions and arguments on this type of subject I've never really seen someone back it up with proper evidence that you can legally make a copy of a film which you own to show it on a different format etc. And game roms arent legal either.

 

[Ringo]

Yes, it is legal. We still have the right for a private copy - which has lately been narrowed because music/film industry and our government work hand in hand *cough* - It's allowed to make a backup of your friend's CD for your own use

Well i must admit i have never heard of that before.

People who i've spoken to before who know copyright law etc have never said having a 'backup' of a friends CD is ok or dvd etc.

You'll be telling me next its 100% legal to own every single rom on a GP32 next.

Sorry but of all the discussions and arguments on this type of subject I've never really seen someone back it up with proper evidence that you can legally make a copy of a film which you own to show it on a different format etc. And game roms arent legal either.

​

What psj3809 (EDIT: meant don) is saying may infact be true, because we had the same law on the subject in my country until recently (Denmark). You were actually allowed to borrow a CD from a friend (or public library) and rip it to mp3 legally.
It was however not legal to say download the same music on the net (unless ofcause it was destributed legally that way).

Basicly that actually made my mp3-collection legal at that time, since I actually borrowed CD's at the public library and encoded them at home. I think the basis for this law may have had something to do with quality-loss. So ripping a CD to mp3 was considered the same as copying to tape (remember) which was legal.

Direct CD-copy (CD to CD) was however illegal, since there would be no loss in quality. But then you could always run the signal through a tape-recorder to obtain the qulity-loss needed.

But now they've changed the law on this subject, so the above mentioned examples are illegal. In fact the law does make more sence now, since you're allowed to copy (no qulity-loss required) any media you have obtained legally, as long as it's for yourself.

But EvilDragon may be right that it's illegal to override copyprotection - That does make sence.

 

[don]

Well, psj3809, those people who "know copyright law" probably don't know german copyright law. Copyright laws are different in each country.

Apart from that, it just doesn't make sense to discuss about roms in the context with homebrew software that's being sold. There's no link between roms that are downloaded (maybe illegally in your country, maybe not) and copyrighted stuff that gets sold on ebay.

Well, EOD for me here, the discussion is constantly drifting to the above subject anyway.

 

[trooper]

Well, EOD for me here, the discussion is constantly drifting to the above subject anyway.

​

Yeah!, I feel like i`m banging my head against a brick wall.

Trooper

 

[spaceboygp32x]

Well, EOD for me here, the discussion is constantly drifting to the above subject anyway.

​

Yeah!, I feel like i`m banging my head against a brick wall.

Trooper

​

update cd is now up to £15 ???

 

[c0ncept]

Basicly that actually made my mp3-collection legal at that time, since I actually borrowed CD's at the public library and encoded them at home. I think the basis for this law may have had something to do with quality-loss. So ripping a CD to mp3 was considered the same as copying to tape (remember) which was legal.

Direct CD-copy (CD to CD) was however illegal, since there would be no loss in quality. But then you could always run the signal through a tape-recorder to obtain the qulity-loss needed.

​

But ripping to MP3 doesn't neccessarily mean quality loss anyway, what if you ripped all of them at 320kbps? Not direct CD recording but still no quality loss...

Copyright laws are bullshit anyway, they're to imprecise in most countries. I mean I have no idea over the legality of ripping films/music in the UK anymore. Is it legal to rip films you've rented? what about a friends cd or a partners CD? too confusing.