Wait? Or Not?

[Joshsux]

Can i ask why the PSP can emulate the PSX games so well now and even N64? I thought it said the Pandora was going to be more powerful? I'd have expected people to work and master it to be better than the PSP version?

K now I'm just confused, Haha....

I always thought the GP2X played SNES, NEO GEO, SCUMMVM, All that type of stuff flawless, And now I'm getting i might have trouble with some??

Maybe i won't buy any then, and just wait and see if they improve? but if you google GP2X SNES theres heaps of video's with people playing the SNES, And it's flawless, I really hope i ain't one to have trouble is i did buy it.

Although, most comments say the GP2X F-200 plays them a lot better than the GP2X because of a dual core or something???

Although Amiga runs fine and actually easy surprisingly.....

 

[JakeK]

The GP2x F200 doesn't have full compatibility with all SNES games etc, most but not all.

A lot of emulation depends on the quality of the software, poor software equals poor compatibility with the games that software is attemtping to emulate.

The Pandora is in the early stages. Not enough is known to make a full assessment of what can/can't be emulated.

The PSP has been out for ages, this is why it has the emulators you are talking about. It has had the time for these emulators to develop.

My suggestion is too wait for the Pandora. Straight away it won't have everything (most likely ports for the time being) but a few months down the track we will begin to see some stuff come out. As soon as the Pandora comes out the F200 pretty much will be outdated (IMO).

 

[cappuchok]

Can i ask why the PSP can emulate the PSX games so well now and even N64? I thought it said the Pandora was going to be more powerful? I'd have expected people to work and master it to be better than the PSP version?

K now I'm just confused, Haha....

I always thought the GP2X played SNES, NEO GEO, SCUMMVM, All that type of stuff flawless, And now I'm getting i might have trouble with some??

Maybe i won't buy any then, and just wait and see if they improve? but if you google GP2X SNES theres heaps of video's with people playing the SNES, And it's flawless, I really hope i ain't one to have trouble is i did buy it.

Although, most comments say the GP2X F-200 plays them a lot better than the GP2X because of a dual core or something???

Although Amiga runs fine and actually easy surprisingly.....

The Pandora isn't even released yet, so I wouldn't expect anyone to know what it can or can't do in terms of emulation. What we DO know is that it will be able to do everything the GP2X can do, but faster and better. We know that fullspeed (that's not to say flawless) PSX emulation will be possible even without tapping into the 3D hardware, but using 3D hardware will likely mean better battery time as it might be possible to underclock the CPU.

On the current GP2X (F100 and F200), Sega Master System, Gamegear, NES, Genesis and SegaCD runs flawlessly on even with a moderate underclock. SNES runs flawlessly (for the games that are compatible) but requires a moderate overclock that decreases battery time. NeoGeo also runs flawlessly but requires some overclocking. Gameboy Advance runs well but also requires a fairly large amount of overclocking. ScummVM runs flawlessly but can be annoying on the F-100 because of the mouse emulation.

Expectations on the Pandora may take a while to be fulfilled after release but it will be worth the wait. Expect the Pandora to run everything mentioned above at full speed even with a good deal of underclocking (we know FBA2X and PocketSNES runs well even when underclocked and outperforms the GP2X versions by several factors even before the code is properly optimized for the Pandora hardware), which means better battery time. Also expect it to be more comfortable for emulation of computers like the Amiga and C64 as well as DOSbox, because of the keyboard and touchscreen (which also makes ScummVM a much smoother date). Expect it to perform well as a media player (it supports more codecs in hardware than does the GP2X), and PDA (thanks again to the touchscreen and keyboard). Expect the Pandora to support netplay features for emulators over WiFi at some point after release.

DON'T expect the Pandora to emulate the N64 flawlessly at full speed, even though it's fairly likely according to what's been said before. I'd expect N64 emulation to be possible but with some frameskip. On the other hand, N64 emulation on the PSP is very slow and the Pandora WILL be able to do better.

I'm getting the Pandora for it's versatility as a Linux-based "pocket notebook" as well as for finally getting WiFi and fullspeed PSX emulation in a handheld format (the PSP has WiFi and PSX emulation but lacks keyboard and touchscreen so makes for a poor Linux computer).

Also, FYI, both the F-100 and the F-200 has two CPU cores. Only a handful of emulators take advantage of this fact on either of the versions because the second core is difficult to utilize in an effective manner and lacks documentation (it's primary function is DivX hardware accelleration). The Pandora will only have one CPU core but it will be very powerful (in MHz it's 3 times the frequency of the GP2X CPU, but in practice it's even faster because of newer/better architecture). The GP2X also makes for a poor platform to emulate the Amiga because of the lack of keyboard (IMHO).

As soon as the Pandora comes out the F200 pretty much will be outdated (IMO).

As far as I'm concerned, the F200 will be extinct and forgotten once the Pandora is released, or earlier. I'm actually very happy with my F100 but it too will likely be largely forgotten (but not ignored) once I get the Pandora.

So yeah, I say wait for the Pandora. It'll be worth it.

 

[quasist]

As far as I'm concerned, the F200 will be extinct and forgotten once the Pandora is released, or earlier.

Consider that 90%(+) forum users are just lame emulator users. Their memory is lower that on systems they see emulating. They are just hungry third-world children without money on real console/arcade hardware. So their poor voice is only echoes...

But developers had and still having experience points gaining from gp2x scene
That's why GP2X was born, that's why GP2X will life forever

 

[Tobriand]

The Pandora will only have one CPU core but it will be very powerful (in MHz it's 3 times the frequency of the GP2X CPU, but in practice it's even faster because of newer/better architecture).

The Pandora only has one programable CPU, but it does also have a DSP (which, contrary to what people expected, has pretty much all the documentation out there), which there modest speculation about uses for in the dev forum, and also a separate GPU, and, I believe, audio hardware.

Basically, that means the CPU is not only a lot more powerful, but it's also not going to have to do all the work itself, if programs are correctly written.

 

[JakeK]

Is coding for the Pandora any different to the GP2x (F100/F200)?

 

[Chip]

As far as I'm concerned, the F200 will be extinct and forgotten once the Pandora is released, or earlier. I'm actually very happy with my F100 but it too will likely be largely forgotten (but not ignored) once I get the Pandora.

I have to disagree with you here. While Pandora is exactly what I want, it's not exactly what everybody wants. There are a lot of people who don't really want or need the extended functionality of Pandora. There are many people here who are perfectly happy with the GP2X, and if its doing what they need it to do, then there is no reason for them to switch. Considering Pandora will be nearly double the cost of the GP2X, there will be new users who want an open handheld, but can't justify the extra cost.

I do not think this is a situation where the "next big thing" will completely overshadow the previous big thing. The GP2X has enough power and a large enough software library to continue to be a valid low-end option for quite a while.

 

[cappuchok]

As far as I'm concerned, the F200 will be extinct and forgotten once the Pandora is released, or earlier. I'm actually very happy with my F100 but it too will likely be largely forgotten (but not ignored) once I get the Pandora.

I have to disagree with you here. While Pandora is exactly what I want, it's not exactly what everybody wants. There are a lot of people who don't really want or need the extended functionality of Pandora. There are many people here who are perfectly happy with the GP2X, and if its doing what they need it to do, then there is no reason for them to switch. Considering Pandora will be nearly double the cost of the GP2X, there will be new users who want an open handheld, but can't justify the extra cost.

I do not think this is a situation where the "next big thing" will completely overshadow the previous big thing. The GP2X has enough power and a large enough software library to continue to be a valid low-end option for quite a while.

You'll note that I said "As far as I'm concerned". Perhaps "In my own mind" would have been a better wording. I'm not suggesting the community as a whole will forget the GP2X models (though the F-200 may actually be best forgotten IMHO). I'm very happy with my GP2X F-100 (but not the cradle, mind you), moreso than I would be with a F-200 in fact due to it's various issues. I just don't use it these days (I have much too much going on this spring to have time for gaming, and when I do get a rare moment for it, I have my laptop) and I don't see myself using it much (beyond keeping the various emulators up-to-date and tweaked-out) after I get the Pandora. Once Open2x sees a stable public release my F-100 will probably see some more active use again for a while (but eventually I'll probably only use the Pandora because of it's (for me) superior flexibility, and give the F-100 to some friend who'll actually use it on a more regular basis).

 

[tkeely4777]

I personally am going to hold off and wait for GPH's next offering. I'm not too crazy about it's appearance, and while it's hardware will probably allow it to do some crazy things, it just doesn't look very comfortable to use.

 

[x68000]

I personally am going to hold off and wait for GPH's next offering. I'm not too crazy about it's appearance, and while it's hardware will probably allow it to do some crazy things, it just doesn't look very comfortable to use.

I think you'll have a very very long wait, considering that GPH have scaped by financially since day 1 and lets not forget that the main reason they are still producing the console (Craig) has now moved on with his own handheld certainly doesnt bode well for GPH's long term plans.

Don't forget that the Pandora's form factor is similar to that of the DS lite, with a little extra depth, so comfort should not be a concern.

 

[gruso]

For comfort, Pandora is looking much better than the GP2X (or DS for that matter). Bean-fingered people like myself will be able to hold the thing while using the analog nubs, rather than pinch it between the fingertips like an arthritic hobbit.

 

[Tobriand]

and lets not forget that the main reason they are still producing the console (Craig) has now moved on with his own handheld certainly doesnt bode well for GPH's long term plans.

Well, true, but Craigix has before said that he doesn't expect the Pandora to hit GP2x sales too much, mostly because, no matter how you look at it, the 2x is a much cheaper machine that still does an awful lot. Just not as much as Pandora should in due course.

Just because he's also making Pandora does not mean that he's stopping selling GP2Xes. Although it does mean that, being the official GP2x distributor for the UK, he's suddenly in the odd position of being in direct competition with himself!

 

[JerryG20]

Can i ask why the PSP can emulate the PSX games so well now and even N64? I thought it said the Pandora was going to be more powerful? I'd have expected people to work and master it to be better than the PSP version?

K now I'm just confused, Haha....

I always thought the GP2X played SNES, NEO GEO, SCUMMVM, All that type of stuff flawless, And now I'm getting i might have trouble with some??

Maybe i won't buy any then, and just wait and see if they improve? but if you google GP2X SNES theres heaps of video's with people playing the SNES, And it's flawless, I really hope i ain't one to have trouble is i did buy it.

Although, most comments say the GP2X F-200 plays them a lot better than the GP2X because of a dual core or something???

Although Amiga runs fine and actually easy surprisingly.....

SNES on the GP2X is great for a lot of games, but it's still not perfect yet. Last I tried, it wasn't perfect for games like Super Mario Kart, all of Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, maybe Megaman X2/X3 (I forgot how these were...), and I think other games like Super Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 2 and Star Ocean and what not. I wouldn't recommend getting a GP2X for SNES emulation. SNES also needs overclocking. Neo-Geo needs overclocking as well to get full speed with sound for all games. If you want to get it for emulation, get it for the "perfect" emulators (GENESIS, Master System, NES, GB/GBC (??), PC-Engine, Gamegear, maybe Sega CD?). The truth about the GP2X's emulation capabilites lies somewhere between what you read on these boards and the youtube videos (best to see it yourself). I guess the same happens with PSP emulation (hyped up over there to seem better than what it actually is; this sort of stuff always happens, so it is to be expected).

You say PSX emulation would be good, but you don't want a "damn PSP"? Get the handheld for what it DOES, not what it IS. Remove the biases against the PSP that these forums may present you, and just look at the what the handhelds DO (who gives a crap if it's a PSP? Yeah, these are GP2X forums so you may feel inclined to have to knock it and stuff, but let's be mature and as impartial as possible and just look at what the handhelds DO, and then make your decision).

I think your best bet may be just to wait it out a little and see how the Pandora does with early software (and maybe make your decision some time in early summer).

 

[Joshsux]

The GP2x costs $30-$40 more?

Yeah, Check the GP2X.net.au site - $229.00
Then Check Play-Asia Website - $182.92

That's why so many people buy from them, It's so much cheaper.

The Pandora isn't even released yet, so I wouldn't expect anyone to know what it can or can't do in terms of emulation.

That's the part I'm hating, if this is so close to being finished, "Not even 2 months if they stick to their schedule"
Why have they not released videos, or anything on how well it emulates stuff? Everything about this is all speculation completely at the moment, Ain't you guys who are confident about it concerned it's going to flop big time and you will have wasted your money?

And trust me, The normal people who buy these, never use the forums unless problems persist, and only use it for emulation, Which is a massive part of the GP2X community, i don't see them forking out $350 - $400 on it, I myself like the design, but people I've spoken too say it looks cheap, Tacky, And even for $150 Wouldn't buy it. And if it's not going to do a HELL of a lot more than the GP2X, why would people apart from die hard fans upgrade? I know they cant have the price any lower, but it's very expensive for some people "Mind you, I'm heading the way of buying it, I just hope it lives up to everything people say"



But anyway, Because of what Jerry and others have said about the SNES emulator I'm very shocked to know that, as i thought everything was Flawless, I am going to probably wait and see what the Pandora does.

And sorry Jerry, i didn't mean to be bias on the PSP, What i meant by that is to be able to do all that stuff, you have to take a chance of bricking the PSP, And its a HELL OF A LOT of work to get it to do everything you want. I personally have nothing againsed the console itself.

Trust me i wasn't trying to be bias, But if you look on PSP forums, theres more posts on "THIS IS BLOODY HARD" or "THIS IS SHIT" than any other posts because of how hard it is to get it to do everything like emulation.

Note: One of my longest posts on any forum. Holy crap.

Low down: Will wait and see what happens. Thank you all

 

[gruso]

QUOTE
That's the part I'm hating, if this is so close to being finished, "Not even 2 months if they stick to their schedule"
Why have they not released videos, or anything on how well it emulates stuff? Everything about this is all speculation completely at the moment,
It's still being manufactured, so they haven't been able to provide videos of software running. Check the blog at www.openpandora.org for hard evidence. This forum isn't full of people who are going to be fooled by vapourware, or a hoax. The developers are among us, lurking, posting...

QUOTE
Ain't you guys who are confident about it concerned it's going to flop big time and you will have wasted your money?
As long as the hardware works, there will be no "flop". Flopping (as far as I treat the term) is when something fails commercially, and it seems Pandora is virtually immune to that. The community around it will continue to support & develop for it, just like the GP2X.

QUOTE
And if (Pandora)'s not going to do a HELL of a lot more than the GP2X, why would people apart from die hard fans upgrade?
Oh, it'll do a hell of a lot more.

Anyway, I think you're doing the smart thing in waiting for Pandora. As I said earlier, the GP2X could well let you down if listening to music/audiobooks is your priority. Get an MP3 player for <$100 to tide you over, and watch this space.

Oh, and regarding Playasia - it's a great site, but they're not cheaper for everything (and the discount on some things can amount to false economy). Take into account postage, delivery times, the usual risks associated with overseas shipping, and service (inc. after sales). I'm really hoping gp2x.net.au sells the Pandora, because the service is top notch and they're close to home.

 

[Joshsux]

Well let me just say, If the Pandora does release in the next month or so, And it does do everything the GP2X will "I know everybody says it will" and the community is completely backing it, and it's at a respectable price, $350, I don't think I'd pay $400, Could almost get a laptop for that price, which would emulate stuff better for me anyway, But $350 i guess is respectable.

I'll def wait a while, But if they do come out to say another 3 or so months of waiting, then i won't bother, By that time I'll be able to get a laptop, and would buy that instead.

I'm getting heaps excited about it now though, Do you think any big news, or stuff will come very soon "Next week or so?" Usually when stuff is this close to being released, you get a lot of updates and stuff that start happening?

Oh, and I'll also only buy it if i can get it from an Aussie place, or Play-Asia, Lets hope they do something about us and not forget Aussies

Sometime around April/May 2008 via UK, USA, Germany and Turkey.

Nooooooo!!!!!!!! I'll find a way to get it....

 

[gruso]

Shipping costs from the UK tend to be fine. Not from the USA though.

 

[cappuchok]

That's the part I'm hating, if this is so close to being finished, "Not even 2 months if they stick to their schedule"
Why have they not released videos, or anything on how well it emulates stuff? Everything about this is all speculation completely at the moment, Ain't you guys who are confident about it concerned it's going to flop big time and you will have wasted your money?

Since it seems the first real prototype is still in the process of being built, I wouldn't expect videos yet, but I'm sure they will arrive as soon as the developers are satisfied with the performance of the demonstrated applications. MWeston has published some YouTube videos showing the OpenGL performance of a comparatively old chip (the i.MX31) which should put your mind at ease given the superior power of the OMAP3, and ImgTec has some example videos of the capabilities of the PowerVR SGX on their website to give some indication of what's possible to do with the dedicated 3D hardware (which I'm sure will be mostly utilised to it's full extent in technical demonstrations (aka demos) and homebrew games, moreso than in emulators.

"How well it emulates stuff" is entirely up to this community, as it is in essence a computer for which software will have to be written. It's not a ready-made collection of Consoles-on-a-chip like those NES/Genesis/Namco joypads with built-in games you can buy at your local supermarket or whatever. Given statements by Squidge (who already has a development board, apparently) I for one have no problems believing that the Pandora will be able to do perfect fullspeed SNES emulation and more, but it's all up to the developers on this board, not the hardware designers themselves.
Yes, I'm confident I won't have wasted my money once I buy a Pandora - even if it's not perfect from the start, it will evolve over time thanks to the entire community and it's many talented coders. Even if it's not a commercial success on par with the DS or PSP, it will cater to the needs and wants of it's target audience and since it's an open platform, it will not matter if it flops commercially, it will still be developed to it's full potential by the community even if the company making it goes out of business (something which can't be said for the DS or PSP, however unlikely it is that the big N or Sony should go out of business).

And trust me, The normal people who buy these, never use the forums unless problems persist, and only use it for emulation, Which is a massive part of the GP2X community

These forums are where you can find out about and download the new emulators as well as everything else coded for the Pandora, as well as comment on and get support for these programs. So buying a Pandora and NOT joining these forums would be kind of foolish IMHO.

 

[Joshsux]

Well yeah, But you could say the same thing about the GP2X can't ya?

I think i saw on some report they have sold over 500 thousand machines or something? No idea how realistic that was or where i saw it, but theres no where near 500 thousand people on here?

Ahh well, I'll Def keep waiting, I just hope i can't afford a laptop before it's released otherwise I think I'd push myself to buy a Laptop instead haha!

Really, i do like what's happening with it, But i hate waiting, I usually see stuff that I'd like and if i got the cash, and something isn't released that i want I' the type of person that will buy that, but still find the money for something else, or just save again, I hope it isn't too long till a release.

 

[yalborap]

Well, on the note of the PSP, it REALLY isn't that hard.

You grab a particular application, you toss a pair of particular files into it(all available from the same place), you run it, boom, you have emulators.

The people saying it's so hard? See, here's the thing; They're idiots. They don't look at the directions, they don't remember how they did it last time, they don't follow the tutorial, and they probably use a PSP with a low battery or something. You have to remember something; The people getting homebrew onto their PSP are a lot closer to the general public than the people doing stuff on the GP2X, so they know a lot less and are less proficient at it, generally speaking.

Sorry if I accidently offended anyone.

EDIT: Oh, and on the note of just buying a laptop instead? Consider portability. Even an Eee isn't small enough to stow in your pocket. The GP2X and Pandora are/will be. Now, if you walk around with a backpack/duffel bag/messenger bag/manpurse/womanpurse/modify a pair of cargo pants, that's not a big deal aside from the added weight. But it IS a big deal if you rely on your pockets, or if you want to play standing up or something along those lines.