Video Out To Video Glasses

[banjeed]

a 800x600 unit will do 800x480 just fine.

Yes, but the Video-out of the Pandora is S-Video (hence 'TV Out'), it doesn't output the 800x480 native internal res of the Pandora, you'll only get 'TV' resolution which is effectively no better than 640x480.

Thanks. I was hoping I wasn't the only one scratching their head at that response. There appears to be many levels of confusion on chuckr's part

 

[Tuxedomask29]

a 800x600 unit will do 800x480 just fine.

Yes, but the Video-out of the Pandora is S-Video (hence 'TV Out'), it doesn't output the 800x480 native internal res of the Pandora, you'll only get 'TV' resolution which is effectively no better than 640x480.

I thought it was 720x480

 

[Asmo]

I thought it was 720x480

Only on higher quality gear, the norm for TV-Out rarely acheives this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_definition

This also assumes utilising the entire screen area, at the displays native ratio - most games (emulated) won't.
With a typical analogue TV-Out setup you're unlikely to scale those dizzy heights! Fine for games, not so hot for reading tiny text.

There is also the consideration that glasses designed to display 800x600 and above, do so via VGA or HDMI input - if you're connecting composite or S-Video equipment they may not be especially concerned with dealing with 'TV' inputs quite so well no matter how good your signal.

 

[Tuxedomask29]

I thought it was 720x480

Only on higher quality gear, the norm for TV-Out rarely acheives this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_definition

This also assumes utilising the entire screen area, at the displays native ratio - most games (emulated) won't.
With a typical analogue TV-Out setup you're unlikely to scale those dizzy heights! Fine for games, not so hot for reading tiny text.

There is also the consideration that glasses designed to display 800x600 and above, do so via VGA or HDMI input - if you're connecting composite or S-Video equipment they may not be especially concerned with dealing with 'TV' inputs quite so well no matter how good your signal.

Thanks for the information. The glasses I supplied the link for did have a connection that would work and supported that output. Basically, the only reason I was really concerned about a higher resolution was so that the text would be easier to read and wouldn't be so squashed down when downgraded to 640x480. But since you're saying that the glasses are not so hot for reading text, guess I'll probably stay away from the tv output in general for text related activities. Kinda a big bummer, cause I always thought it would be nice to carry the pandora and a keyboard/mouse unit with me and I can connect it to a TV in a hotel and continue to work and/or surf the internet. Sucks that it won't look good.

 

[emil10001]

I'm currently looking at these (vuzix wrap 920). I've compared similar models of myvu and vuzix and vuzix is far and above better. I've seen reviews that indicate that the wraps are a good step up from the iwear models. I've never seen the Zeiss model in person, but it looks really nice. I still feel that the vuzix wraps are the best bet since they are reasonably priced (you can find them for ~260USD) and since they will have video cables to connect to anything (HDMI and VGA are optional), it comes with standard composite connection and an ipod connection. They are also planning on launching a few accessories like the 6DoF Tracker and a stereo camera. So, it seems to be the best deal for the money, and what the pandora will support.

I'll probably get a pair when I get myself a job.

 

[Asmo]

But since you're saying that the glasses are not so hot for reading text, guess I'll probably stay away from the tv output in general for text related activities. Kinda a big bummer, cause I always thought it would be nice to carry the pandora and a keyboard/mouse unit with me and I can connect it to a TV in a hotel and continue to work and/or surf the internet. Sucks that it won't look good.

TBH I don't think anybody has seen what the Pandora's apps output (as opposed to games) is like over the TV-Out, but if it's anything like TV-Out on PC Graphics cards, 800x480 with a small font will test your vision skills, and TV quality. You could always use a bigger font, I presume! It's just that on the glasses, even if they have a high native res, the inbuilt circuitry that deals with the S-Video input might not be great, as it's only really there for 'video' playback. I'd wait until people start reporting their experiences - or bring your Pandora to somewhere you can try it out

 

[hobbyman II]

I always fancied a pair of these but all the ones that are affordable don`t have correction for your eyes, so if you have not got perfect vision you need to wear your glasses at the same time, that is sure to be as uncomfortable as hell, If I could get some I could use then I would use em in conjunction with a small camera and tv sender/receiver on my model planes, that way I could seem to fly in my Spitfire or F15, cool!.

 

[berichandcreamy]

You can't have this discussion without linking to this guy!

 

[chuckr]

Thanks. I was hoping I wasn't the only one scratching their head at that response. There appears to be many levels of confusion on chuckr's part

Well, maybe, I've never used S-video for other than NTSC video, but I did use RCA jack interfaces (a long while back) and that could have run any sync rate programmed in, it wasn't just NTSC video. The fact that the cable was inexpensive would blur things a bit, but many S-video cables are made of better stuff. The specs I saw on the Pandora's video was a bit too limited in scope. I *think* that since S-video separates luminance from chrominance, there really oughtn't be a technical reason that S-video couldn't do a signal which was quite in excess of NTSC specs. I know that using answers from Wikipedia which are based on entertainment sync rates doesn't convince me very much. I think that I could probably get the S-video on my older Radeon video cards to do much better. Maybe I should see about experimenting.

I don't know much about the Pandora's expansion bus (can't find a good reference), but I know that the OMAP3530 (according to the Beagleboard refman) has an internal DVI-D interface (I think you need to shut off the S-video to use it) and making a DVI-D to VGA adapter isn't all that hard to construct or buy. My head mounted display has a VGA interface, which I've experimented a LOT using my Mac, and it will nicely adapt to many sync rates, 800x600 and below. Also, the naming I use is that recognized by most of the eBay ads (not a head mounted projector). Maybe I'm wrong, but seeing as I like talking hardware, where exactly was I wrong? I think that saying "I think Chuck was confused"is something I can't answer, it's too general, and as criticism, isn't very fair. I'm not going to get mad over that, but I *do* like arguing it.

I think, for myself, I'd see about hacking to see if I could bring out the DVI-D, and also see if I can change the OMAP3530's configuration settings. Using a cheaply derived VGA would be a good thing to do. It's one of my primary goals, in trying to find some Pandora schematics (if anyone knows anything on that, I'm all ears). The software side, it's all spec'd or discoverable. I think that using a DVI-D interface will probably prove of interest to other, too. I'm not honestly sure, I have nearly no experience using a 800x600 LCD, maybe the head mounted display won't prove such a good idea, when all's said and done.

 

[Prometheus]

It's one of my primary goals, in trying to find some Pandora schematics (if anyone knows anything on that, I'm all ears).

As far as I know, the below is the most current information regarding that (credit to Polossatik, who quoted it in another thread yesterday);

There will be a formal document listing everything anyone would need to do their hacking, complete with the warranty disclaimer. It will contain very accurate descriptions of all connectors and spare pads on the PCB with their voltage levels and any specific requirements. There's also a block diagram schematic devs have now that shows how everything is connected together. I'll clean that up and put it into this document. It will be detailed enough for any hacker, University project or modder to do whatever they need, short of building one on their own. My plan is to have it ready with the launch of the device or just after. I'm a bit short on time to do this right for now.

I still want to get hundreds or thousands of spare connectors that plug into the A/V port to help people out if they need them. The part is no longer available for sampling or small orders so this might be the only way.

 

[mali]

I don't know much about the Pandora's expansion bus (can't find a good reference), but I know that the OMAP3530 (according to the Beagleboard refman) has an internal DVI-D interface (I think you need to shut off the S-video to use it) and making a DVI-D to VGA adapter isn't all that hard to construct or buy. My head mounted display has a VGA interface, which I've experimented a LOT using my Mac, and it will nicely adapt to many sync rates, 800x600 and below. Also, the naming I use is that recognized by most of the eBay ads (not a head mounted projector). Maybe I'm wrong, but seeing as I like talking hardware, where exactly was I wrong? I think that saying "I think Chuck was confused"is something I can't answer, it's too general, and as criticism, isn't very fair. I'm not going to get mad over that, but I *do* like arguing it.

I think, for myself, I'd see about hacking to see if I could bring out the DVI-D, and also see if I can change the OMAP3530's configuration settings. Using a cheaply derived VGA would be a good thing to do. It's one of my primary goals, in trying to find some Pandora schematics (if anyone knows anything on that, I'm all ears). The software side, it's all spec'd or discoverable. I think that using a DVI-D interface will probably prove of interest to other, too. I'm not honestly sure, I have nearly no experience using a 800x600 LCD, maybe the head mounted display won't prove such a good idea, when all's said and done.

You won't be able to hack DVI-D or VGA onto the Pandora.

 

[elwing]

I don't know much about the Pandora's expansion bus (can't find a good reference), but I know that the OMAP3530 (according to the Beagleboard refman) has an internal DVI-D interface (I think you need to shut off the S-video to use it) and making a DVI-D to VGA adapter isn't all that hard to construct or buy. My head mounted display has a VGA interface, which I've experimented a LOT using my Mac, and it will nicely adapt to many sync rates, 800x600 and below. Also, the naming I use is that recognized by most of the eBay ads (not a head mounted projector). Maybe I'm wrong, but seeing as I like talking hardware, where exactly was I wrong? I think that saying "I think Chuck was confused"is something I can't answer, it's too general, and as criticism, isn't very fair. I'm not going to get mad over that, but I *do* like arguing it.

I think, for myself, I'd see about hacking to see if I could bring out the DVI-D, and also see if I can change the OMAP3530's configuration settings. Using a cheaply derived VGA would be a good thing to do. It's one of my primary goals, in trying to find some Pandora schematics (if anyone knows anything on that, I'm all ears). The software side, it's all spec'd or discoverable. I think that using a DVI-D interface will probably prove of interest to other, too. I'm not honestly sure, I have nearly no experience using a 800x600 LCD, maybe the head mounted display won't prove such a good idea, when all's said and done.

You won't be able to hack DVI-D or VGA onto the Pandora.

the DVI-D signal is already used to drive the pandora internal LCD, no?

 

[banjeed]

@chuckr
I'm certainly not here to start arguments or make enemies and if anything, I welcome expanding my knowledge at the sake of my ego. My response was based purely on my experience with video standards and I've been flamed before for relying on my knowledge and not providing links of support. In my personal use, I've never used rca (composite)/svideo for anything other than NTSC standards, and in doing so possibly wrongly assumed that's all the cords/standard could handle. Anything above those have always required vga/dvi and I know it's been discussed to hell that those resolutions won't come out of the video port on the pandora. Those discussions then usually lead to people mentioning that the beagleboard has an hdmi port..etc..yadda. I for one welcome you to guinea pig your pandora for the sake of us all if you'd like to output higher resolutions. With HD quickly becoming a norm, I'd love to be able to load a movie or two on it to bring to a friend's house and plug into their TV. Perhaps one day we'll have some sort of low-profile usb vga adaptor or something to get us there.

 

[gruso]

For those interested in the Ext port, there's some info here on the breakout board devs are using: http://pandorawiki.o...ardware_hacking

It won't help you get VGA/DVI out of Pandora though.

 

[mali]

the DVI-D signal is already used to drive the pandora internal LCD, no?

The display bus that would be used for DVI-D is connected to a chip that drives the LCD on Pandora. I don't know what it's called exactly, but I don't think it's DVI-D, because the Beagleboard needs another chip for DVI-D. So a hack would have to remove the LCD chip and connect a DVI-D chip, leaving the internal LCD without function. It would be better to get a Beagleboard for such a project.

Edit:
BB block diagram:
http://www.syspire.de/sites/default/files/users/user1/Beagleboard/BB-Block_0.png

 

[Asmo]

I did use RCA jack interfaces (a long while back) and that could have run any sync rate programmed in, it wasn't just NTSC video.

I know that using answers from Wikipedia which are based on entertainment sync rates doesn't convince me very much.

Composite (on Pandora for example) is a single RCA jack (50 or 60hz PAL/NTSC/SECAM etc) - but multiple RCA jacks are also used in Component RGB, VGA and other cable interfaces.

As regards the wikipedia links, those are citing the defined standards for these connections. Although your headset could be a *very* rare exception, even if you could get a non standard signal out over composite or S-Video the signal processing in the headset (or indeed, anything else via those connections) would expect one of the defined 'standards' for that input (as opposed to 'extended' Multisync capabilities of the VGA input).

 

[emil10001]

I just bought a Headplay visor:
http://www.headplay.com/the-visor.html

They arrived yesterday and I got to try them out. They are perfect, for me. I don't need glasses, so I guess I'm lucky there. I had read one other reviewer who couldn't use them for the same reason as you. But, there are also some people who mod HMDs like this or the z800 to replace the optics in them. It isn't a cheap or easy mod, but apparently if done right, it can have a really big impact.

What I will say of the Headplay unit is that it is almost too bulky to be portable. The 'liberator' box that does the image processing is a bit on the large side and kind of heavy (I'm sure even more-so with a battery in it), and the connections come off of the side adjacent to the visor cable. The connectors would make it difficult to place in a backpack or something and not worry about the connectors getting dinged. I was, however, expecting this. I'm sure I will probably be able to use an empty pouch in my backpack to house this thing If I were to use it with a pandora.

In terms of the percieved screen size, it does truly appear to be a big screen. I've tried several others (in stores) including the vuzix iwear 310, and the two different myvu models. My impressions were that the vuzix iwear line was head and shoulders above the myvu line, but with the iwear 310 it still felt like I was looking at a pretty small screen with low resolution, and I could see individual pixels. I was hoping that the wrap 920s were going to be better, but I never got the chance to try them out. As I understand it, the wrap series is a decent step up from the iwear series, and the 920s have larger screens than the 310s. But, reading reviews of people who tried both the Headplay and the vuzix iwear vr920 (previously top of the line) they said that Headplay was the clear winner, improving on some crucial areas that vuzix missed. The headplay also offeres more connectivity out of the box, the liberator has s-video, composite, and vga connections (component -> vga adapters work). It also allows you to play media directly from the liberator via usb, wifi upnp, or cf card (don't know why they didn't use sdhc).

The resolution is also a decent bump up from the vr920, at 800x600 and again, the screen does actually look big. If I lift up the glasses, the edges line up pretty well with the 26" monitor a couple feet away from my face. My fiancee likened it to a movie theater experience, which is how I felt watching videos on it. Playing some Halo 3/ODST was an experience, it does a lot to really put you in the game, and especially with something like Halo ODST where the character has a helmet and HUD, and those are 'features' of the game. The optics are a bit difficult to get set properly, and take a couple of minutes when first starting out, and after lending it to someone else for viewing. Once set properly, it does look pretty darn good. I had no issues browsing the web with it, and playing quakelive on a slightly smaller window inside the glasses.

There are two big things that I haven't had the chance to try out yet. First, is stereo 3D, I will start working on getting these working with my linux box as soon as my new hard drive comes in, root drive is failing right now. The second thing is head tracking, which this device does not offer. There are other solutions for head tracking that I will try to implement once stereo 3d is working. My eventual goal is to get some sort of utility like stereogl working for the pandora.

 

[Quizzor]

Video Headsets are why I wanted that screen-less Pandora thing we voted on awhile back. Although that was meant to be used with a TV.