Augmented Reality!

[berichandcreamy]

I'm really interested in AR but so far I have 2 UVC compliant webcams that won't work with linux correctly. I don't know how it'll work with a Pandora till I get one, I'm just citing this issue as one of the road blocks AR enthusiasts may encounter.

 

[GizmoTheGreen]

@kingoddball:
yeah, i knew that like, scientists have done it, just recently i saw there was opensource stuff =)

All you need is a webcam and preferably a windows pc.
since poeple often compile for that, not linux.

but linux works if you can code your own stuff.

not that 320x240 is a little small. 640x480 webcam is a minimum i think.

 

[borgqueenx]

@kingoddball:
yeah, i knew that like, scientists have done it, just recently i saw there was opensource stuff =)

All you need is a webcam and preferably a windows pc.
since poeple often compile for that, not linux.

but linux works if you can code your own stuff.

not that 320x240 is a little small. 640x480 webcam is a minimum i think.

ah i remember playing a pacman on the n95 that was using cards and camera with AR technology.
When you moved your phone the camera sees other cards, and pacman moves. A fake/digital accelerometer so to speak.
It was pretty cool.

I like AR technology very much, but not on pandora. You need a external camera, and the quality webcams costs easely more then $50. And dev's dont like to create something almost no one uses.

But i hope many more AR stuff comes to my iphone. like google goggles, cant wait for that app to evolve.
Maby when my friends show new photos of girlfriends, i can track those photos down with a app that checks google images for the image or something.

Yes AR rocks...but no thanks for pandora. Unless there exists a small usb stick like thingy thats not bulky and has 3MP or more.

 

[juniorm33]

That's the only downside to not having a built in camera, before (year ago) I wouldn't have cared less about having a camera, but they've really started to come up with some good ideas using it, gps and compass.

 

[GizmoTheGreen]

hopefully someone will make a small usb accelerometer, or maybe make some schematics to connect it to some gpio inside the pandora, id use that.

but best gps shot we have is a bluetooth one, that has its own battery.

 

[ashdjones]

On the subject of cameras I found the Playstation Eye demonstration video. This is what I've been waiting for ever since I saw the revealing of the PS3. This is also what I've been missing on the Wii.

Augmented reality with interaction in EyePet. This is really cool stuff

Those demos started as Eyetoy R&D on the PS2 (this was years ago mind you). I only ever saw the screenshots in magazines though, it's great to watch it running!

 

[skyeyemachine]

hopefully someone will make a small usb accelerometer, or maybe make some schematics to connect it to some gpio inside the pandora, id use that.

but best gps shot we have is a bluetooth one, that has its own battery.

I wonder if there's a half-decent Bluetooth webcam or something on the market... >.>

For the AR elite, there are also augmented reality glasses, too:

http://www.techpin.com/wp-content/u...g-to-the-vuzix-iwear-video-glasses-line-2.jpg

I don't know much in the way of details, however.

@ kingoddball - It really is a fascinating technology, isn't it? Best of luck getting going on it; once you know what to look for, there's all kinds of projects littering the internet. Like so:

The Sixth Sense project at MIT.

 

[raytaller]

I am very interested in using the pandora as a portable computer to process real time augmented reality.
What really excites me is the potential use of Head Mounted Displays (HMD) via the pandora video output.

Here are some interesting links I found :

http://www.headplay.com/
http://www.vuzix.com/
http://www.seac02.it/blog/2009/linceovr-vuzix-iwear-av920-camar/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARToolKit
http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/products.php?CatID_=8
http://www.tdvision.com/tdvisor.php
http://www.3dvisor.com/products.php
http://www.pabr.org/wxhmd/doc/wxhmd.en.html
http://www.zeiss.com/cinemizer
http://www.myvu.com/


This product in particular :
http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_camar.html

Is very interesting, as it combines a standard USB camera and a compatible HMD.
The questions are :

- will the camera work with the pandora ?
- will the pandora be fast enough to perform real-time image processing ?
- is the video output compatible with the display ?

 

[berichandcreamy]

hopefully someone will make a small usb accelerometer, or maybe make some schematics to connect it to some gpio inside the pandora, id use that.

but best gps shot we have is a bluetooth one, that has its own battery.

I wonder if there's a half-decent Bluetooth webcam or something on the market... >.>

For the AR elite, there are also augmented reality glasses, too:

http://www.techpin.com/wp-content/u...g-to-the-vuzix-iwear-video-glasses-line-2.jpg

I don't know much in the way of details, however.

@ kingoddball - It really is a fascinating technology, isn't it? Best of luck getting going on it; once you know what to look for, there's all kinds of projects littering the internet. Like so:

The Sixth Sense project at MIT.

The only bluetooth webcam I know of is for the mac =/

 

[skyeyemachine]

I have never seen this before!

This looks AWESOME!
How is this done? What do I need?

What about software? I'm sure I can get a tiny webcam.. Simple and Cheap. Glue it to the Pandora if I get desperate!

I have a Ping))) too!!

I WANT IN! What ever needs to be done - Count me in!

I just found this recently, thought you'd want to know, based on your rather enthusiastic comments:

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/dart/

If I understand right, this is everything you need to get going on AR projects with basic equipment, although I don't know if there's a Linux port...I'm meaning to give it a try myself some time. More to play with after I get somewhere with my shiny new Arduino (just came in a week ago!).

 

[droneb]

I have never seen this before!

This looks AWESOME!
How is this done? What do I need?

What about software? I'm sure I can get a tiny webcam.. Simple and Cheap. Glue it to the Pandora if I get desperate!

I have a Ping))) too!!

I WANT IN! What ever needs to be done - Count me in!

I just found this recently, thought you'd want to know, based on your rather enthusiastic comments:

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/dart/

If I understand right, this is everything you need to get going on AR projects with basic equipment, although I don't know if there's a Linux port...I'm meaning to give it a try myself some time. More to play with after I get somewhere with my shiny new Arduino (just came in a week ago!).

DX 9 required this one is a NO GO

 

[kingoddball]

I have never seen this before!

This looks AWESOME!
How is this done? What do I need?

What about software? I'm sure I can get a tiny webcam.. Simple and Cheap. Glue it to the Pandora if I get desperate!

I have a Ping))) too!!

I WANT IN! What ever needs to be done - Count me in!

I just found this recently, thought you'd want to know, based on your rather enthusiastic comments:

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/dart/

If I understand right, this is everything you need to get going on AR projects with basic equipment, although I don't know if there's a Linux port...I'm meaning to give it a try myself some time. More to play with after I get somewhere with my shiny new Arduino (just came in a week ago!).

DX 9 required this one is a NO GO

Are you positive that its necessary?

It runs on OSX which does not have any DX.
I DID see that it says DX is needed, but it also says available for Mac.

It looks like some great software!

DART Installation, Step 1 of 5 - System Requirements

Computer
Windows 2000 or XP, or Mac OSX
Processor: 1.0 GHz or better
Memory: At least 512 MB of RAM
High-end graphics card

 

[Awakening]

DART is built to run with Macromedia Director it seems, that's gonna be a huge problem

 

[XxionxX]

Why does everyone seem to think that they would need a camera on the front of their Pandora? That would mean that you would have to hold the Pandora up to your face every time you wanted to see your AR. That seems like a drag to me. I want a camera separate from my Pandora because it allows for flexibility.

I think that raytaller has the right idea about the Head Mounted Displays. Keep the Pandora in your pocket/backpack and wear the camera/HMD on your head(people thought bluetooth headsets looked weird wait till they see this!). The camera/HMD could even be wired because it's all on your body. If you need to share your augmented reality with friends then a projector or TV is probably the best way to go.

Has anyone thought of making a geocashing AR game? It seems like it would be simple enough with the Pandora.

 

[WizardStan]

Has anyone thought of making a geocashing AR game? It seems like it would be simple enough with the Pandora.

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, I don't think it's actually possible. GPS accuracy isn't high enough. Unless a marker was used like in the other AR examples, but then you'd be able to see it too, and that would partially defeat some of the fun of geocaching.

 

[XxionxX]

Has anyone thought of making a geocashing AR game? It seems like it would be simple enough with the Pandora.

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, I don't think it's actually possible. GPS accuracy isn't high enough. Unless a marker was used like in the other AR examples, but then you'd be able to see it too, and that would partially defeat some of the fun of geocaching.

I know that it might take all of the fun out of geocashing, but I meant to use it as an idea vehicle. You could do a lot of other things instead of geochaching. Maybe you could have virtual checkpoints and players gain some sort of EXP pts for reaching goals? Something along the lines of geocashing but with a different twist. Dozens of ideas come to mind.

I think that the bar-codes/tags that would take over when you got close enough to the GPS goal wouldn't be a problem if you changed the game to fit. Like if you made them into "runes" or something like that. Is AR accurate enough for that?

What if you had a Pokemon like game that you could only collect animals/avatars at certain points in the real world?

What about a final fantasy like game that you could only gain EXP for battling in a certain area?

In both cases you would gain even more EXP by setting up areas for others and/or enriching already created areas.

 

[Jourdy288]

That sounds ingenious.

 

[skyeyemachine]

Ugh...just a warning regarding Linux-goers who are interested in the open AR packages like ARToolKit, Studierstube and the like; I've had awful luck getting any of them running. I'm hardly a Linux native, so it may just be general noobishness on my part (I'm running Crunchbang Linux, a flavor of Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04, by the way), but after many hours of tutorial-hunting and compile attempts and general hackery, I failed pretty hard, with nothing really running...

I haven't tried any of them on Windows, although I did try Studierstube's installer in Wine (I think it might have been working properly, but I was sort of out of steam by then...!), but I suspect getting Studierstube going on Windows may be the shortest route to a working install for the uninitiated.

If someone manages to get any of these environments running properly in an Ubuntu environment, let alone on a Pandora, please share how you did it for the less informed of us out there!

 

[XxionxX]

Ugh...just a warning regarding Linux-goers who are interested in the open AR packages like ARToolKit, Studierstube and the like; I've had awful luck getting any of them running. I'm hardly a Linux native, so it may just be general noobishness on my part (I'm running Crunchbang Linux, a flavor of Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04, by the way), but after many hours of tutorial-hunting and compile attempts and general hackery, I failed pretty hard, with nothing really running...

I haven't tried any of them on Windows, although I did try Studierstube's installer in Wine (I think it might have been working properly, but I was sort of out of steam by then...!), but I suspect getting Studierstube going on Windows may be the shortest route to a working install for the uninitiated.

If someone manages to get any of these environments running properly in an Ubuntu environment, let alone on a Pandora, please share how you did it for the less informed of us out there!

Thats a good point skyeyemachine. Does anyone know anything about how ARToolKit or Studierstube might work in the ARM processor environment? Do we have to make our own software or port it?

 

[skyeyemachine]

Thats a good point skyeyemachine. Does anyone know anything about how ARToolKit or Studierstube might work in the ARM processor environment? Do we have to make our own software or port it?

+1. Any thoughts from the more experiened among us?

I would also like to point out that getting ARToolKit and its brethren running seems to be a rather messy process - it's finnicky and even a bit buggy, or so I'm led to understand, although it seems to work well enough once it's running. I think I've basically concluded that there's no really solid(and/or easy to use) AR environment out there that's also open source; the really tight ones that do exist are proprietary or have gone commerical, and the ones that aren't seem to be kind of outdated and exceedingly fiddly. It doesn't help that Windows seems to get the most attention in terms of polish and documentation, either - for Studierstube, all they seem to tell you is how to install it for Linux, after that, everything I could find was for the Windows install, and didn't seem very helpful...

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is that if someone with advanced coding knowledge wants to get involved, the AR community in general could really benefit from a new, modern, and robust AR library - especially one that isn't a total nightmare to set up (and at least somewhat friendly to inexperienced users, once working). Or even just a major cleanup and polish of one that does exist. If that could be had for the Pandora, it'd be epic. That said, I'm not the person who'll be making it, at least not until I've got a lot more computer science knowledge under my belt, so consider this a sort of hopeful prayer made in the general direction of the Internet...