Valve's Source Engine Port For Pandora?

[lulzfish]

TF2 rewuires 1.7 Ghz CPU to run. Pandora's max is 600 mhz - (overclocked) 800mhz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

You're right but for the wrong reasons. Clock for clock, an x86 gaming CPU, like my Core 2 Duo, is probably much more powerful than the Pandora's ARM. So we're ridiculously far away from running TF2.

The rest of your argument is correct. Valve likes to make money, and the Pandora's userbase isn't big enough to make up the cost of a huge x86 -> ARM + OpenGL -> OpenGL ES + OS X -> Linux port.

 

[linc186]

TF2 rewuires 1.7 Ghz CPU to run. Pandora's max is 600 mhz - (overclocked) 800mhz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

You're right but for the wrong reasons. Clock for clock, an x86 gaming CPU, like my Core 2 Duo, is probably much more powerful than the Pandora's ARM. So we're ridiculously far away from running TF2.

The rest of your argument is correct. Valve likes to make money, and the Pandora's userbase isn't big enough to make up the cost of a huge x86 -> ARM + OpenGL -> OpenGL ES + OS X -> Linux port.

I know about the MHz myth... I know about how it may not be compatable with the ARM and how you need source code. And yes, I'm aware tf2 is closed source. I just wanted to compare the two thru capabilities of processing to show that there was no way then pandora could do that.

 

[Rockthesmurf]

Valve will be able to port the Source engine behind Portal, Team Fortress 2, Alien Swarm, etc. if the Pandora becomes popular enough to be worth the time, right? Like, there isn't anything theoretically preventing Source games from running in some form on the Pandora, is there?

Short answer : No.

Long answer : Use common sense.

Steve

 

[wermy]

I know Valve will never touch it, but to everyone talking about steep requirements for running source games, remember that it was ported to the original xbox: http://www.amazon.com/Half-Life-2-Xbox/dp/B000B2YR74

The original xbox had a 733 MHz pentium III-ish CPU and a GPU roughly equivalent to a geforce 4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox

So, again, I know they'll never do it, but I bet they could get it running in SOME capacity...

Edit: Note that I'm not saying the Pandora is equivalent to an xbox in terms of performance. But they have gotten it running on lower-end hardware, and the source engine scales very well.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

Edit: Note that I'm not saying the Pandora is equivalent to an xbox in terms of performance. But they have gotten it running on lower-end hardware, and the source engine scales very well.

As I said before, the most problematic part is probably the Havok physics engine. The Pandora might have somewhat similar performance concerning integer math, but the important part here is the floating point math and as you might know the OMAP does not perform very well in that area compared to the custom P3 in the xbox.

 

[Mr.Confuzed]

... as you might know the OMAP does not perform very well in that area compared to the custom P3 in the xbox.

DSP ftw! (emulated fp instructions)

 

[Exophase]

DSP ftw! (emulated fp instructions)

Eh..?

The CPU is good at floating-point, if you use NEON.

The DSP is bad at floating point, on account of not having an FPU.

 

[CPUnltd]

One thing people should note is that with Valve's obvious business model being making money, and portability of Valve games can be done to some extent on hardware as old as the original XBox (AND pandora being close in general power) that if they port ANYTHING to arm, they will be not only giving us something to work with, but all android devices (smartphones, umpc's, tablets, etc) as well as Meego/Moblin devices and "nearly" every mobile device out there (as most use some variant of the ARM processor)... so this concept is probably more feasable than any of us are giving it credit for... in the interest of Valve making money, they'd be tapping into a HUGE area that they'd never touched before... so the influx of currency could possibly outweigh the cost of making it happen... In the end, they have to make a decision on that. But it's nice to wonder one way or the other...

 

[God Ginrai]

One thing people should note is that with Valve's obvious business model being making money, and portability of Valve games can be done to some extent on hardware as old as the original XBox (AND pandora being close in general power) that if they port ANYTHING to arm, they will be not only giving us something to work with, but all android devices (smartphones, umpc's, tablets, etc) as well as Meego/Moblin devices and "nearly" every mobile device out there (as most use some variant of the ARM processor)... so this concept is probably more feasable than any of us are giving it credit for... in the interest of Valve making money, they'd be tapping into a HUGE area that they'd never touched before... so the influx of currency could possibly outweigh the cost of making it happen... In the end, they have to make a decision on that. But it's nice to wonder one way or the other...

The Pandora is close to the Gamecube in processing power, not the XBox.

-God Ginrai

 

[typs lik dis]

Out of curiosity, was this question inspired by Rage on the iPhone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofg7m2rtQ4&feature=related

Nope. I don't play traditional games on the iPod/iPhone because holding it like a game controller cramps my hands.

TF2 rewuires 1.7 Ghz CPU to run. Pandora's max is 600 mhz - (overclocked) 800mhz. No chance this will run without being stripped, as others have said before. Also, Valve has no reason too. They're not going to make much money out of 8,000 units....we'll have to wait a long time before they even consider it seriously. It would be easier for them just to release the source code at a price, so they make money (not just off pandorians) but others. That way, our own community can strip it down, add their own features, and hell, and may even go away from TF2, and turn into its own game. But if this would happen, would the developer make it free? After all, he had to pay for the source code.

What about the millions of other ARM Linux-like devices out there, e.g. Android phones? I think the potential market is much larger than the mere thousands of Pandoras that will eventually be out there. You still haven't gotten the point of this thread straight, anyway: I am concerned solely with the possibility of Source Engine games running in some form on the Pandora.

Valve will be able to port the Source engine behind Portal, Team Fortress 2, Alien Swarm, etc. if the Pandora becomes popular enough to be worth the time, right? Like, there isn't anything theoretically preventing Source games from running in some form on the Pandora, is there?

Short answer : No.

Long answer : Use common sense.

Steve

I don't think this is a matter of common sense.

Just how far from e.g. the Xbox's PIII is the Pandora's CPU with NEON in use? Is that a meaningful question?

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Can it can't work?. It most certainly can can't, if, as mentioned earlier, stuff is stripped, ripped, etc. Will it happen? Ah, now that's where things get difficult simple.
Unless they They won't open source their engine and make stuff more moddable to reduce graphics, particles, etc., I doubt we'll be seeing Pandora Portal anytime soon ever.
But you can believe how badly I wish for this to happen!

Fixed. But yeah, you're right. Not gonna happen.

 

[may88]

Not sure if serious.

obvious troll.

-God Ginrai

I'm sorry Mr. Ginrai! Deity or no, I'll not have you accuse the mighty Gruso of being a troll.

 

[Grench]

I bought the whole ID collection through Steam so that I would have the files to use on the Pandora. I'm probably not the only one. If they have decent consumer research, they could probably figure out that there is a market for their products on ARM. Remember, Steam isn't just VALVE's stuff - they have other packages in there too.

The original XCOM? Get it on Steam and load it up in DosBox.

I hope they figure out that some portion of their sales are being played on something other than X86 Windows.

Now if I actually -had- my Pandora, I'd be all set on this...

 

[CPUnltd]

sounds like a good idea for a petition, Grench... I found a petition site a few days ago that could be setup to forward to Valve once the digital signatures reaches a number of our choosing to wake them up to the idea of developing/porting for ARM and the embedded world... it's essentially the desktop world booming all over again (in mobile form )

 

[Falcon Delta]

Trust me, petitions never work. I've followed the Dreamcast scene over the years, and every time a new game was released for the Naomi (The DC's arcade counterpart) everyone rushed to sign petitions, but to no avail. These weren't big companies and the Naomi was essentially a DC with a bit more ram, so porting would take little effort. We did get a handful of newer games the past few years, but it was never the result of a petition.

 

[typs lik dis]

Can it can't work?. It most certainly can can't, if, as mentioned earlier, stuff is stripped, ripped, etc. Will it happen? Ah, now that's where things get difficult simple.
Unless they They won't open source their engine and make stuff more moddable to reduce graphics, particles, etc., I doubt we'll be seeing Pandora Portal anytime soon ever.
But you can believe how badly I wish for this to happen!

Fixed. But yeah, you're right. Not gonna happen.

I see that there is at least one actual troll on these boards.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Can it can't work?. It most certainly can can't, if, as mentioned earlier, stuff is stripped, ripped, etc. Will it happen? Ah, now that's where things get difficult simple.
Unless they They won't open source their engine and make stuff more moddable to reduce graphics, particles, etc., I doubt we'll be seeing Pandora Portal anytime soon ever.
But you can believe how badly I wish for this to happen!

Fixed. But yeah, you're right. Not gonna happen.

I see that there is at least one actual troll on these boards.

Hey, I'm not trolling, I'm just being realistic.

 

[God Ginrai]

Not sure if serious.

obvious troll.

-God Ginrai

I'm sorry Mr. Ginrai! Deity or no, I'll not have you accuse the mighty Gruso of being a troll.

Ok, you're misreading me. Gruso was saying he wasn't sure if this was serious or not, and I was telling him it was an obvious troll.

-God Ginrai

 

[traylorpark]

Out of curiosity, was this question inspired by Rage on the iPhone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofg7m2rtQ4&feature=related

Nope. I don't play traditional games on the iPod/iPhone because holding it like a game controller cramps my hands.

I totally agree, but I think you missed my point.

You can't play Rage on the iPhone, it's not out yet. The point is that id has ported/adapted their latest and greatest engine for PC (id Tech 5, I think) to run on the iPhone. The iPhone 3GS has also identical hardware to the Pandora.

But it takes someone with John Carmack level intelligence to do it.

 

[Blue Ion]

But it takes someone with John Carmack level intelligence to do it.

Or not, I mean, obviously you need coding skills to pull that off but not that godlike coding skills. The reason why virtually all iphone games look like crap is because they are mini 5$ casual experiences that are meant for quick comsumption and need to reach the maximum number of clients, needing backwards compatibility. The iphone 3gs and 4 socs are much more powerful than what has normally been shown by their games so far, just that they haven't been using all its power.
Not that I'm not saying they are not fun, just that they have to sacrify quality and length so they can create many of these.

Also, wasn't that demonstration on the iphone 4? It has twice the ram, twice the cpu speed, and significantly stronger gpu putting the pandora at a disadvantage.

We need some kind of Wine for Iphone or at least Android, to show off this stuff, or at least some Doom 3 source to port to the pandora, any chance that id could release the source to a select group of people under their new Zenimax overlords to do the port?