This Would Be Kinda Cool To Use With The Pandora

[Phawx]

http://gizmodo.com/5359261/spawn-hd+720-is-like-a-slingbox-for-your-console-games

They say you can use any controls of your choosing

 

[Bagera]

the latency seems a bit too much and I don't see them developing the app for the pandora as even remotly probable. I assume you wanted to play PS3 on the pandora, the other way arround seems even less likely

 

[Phawx]

The use any controls of your choosing is what got me interested. If they could get latency down to what onlive is talking about, I would like this situation. It also hooks up to an xbox 360. XBLA games would be pretty cool to play.

 

[berichandcreamy]

I was thinking about posting this. Is this the same people playing crysis on a iphone?

Also:

"Can I really play games remotely – won’t latency be a problem?

Yes, you can. We plan to ship with an average end-to-end latency of approximately 100ms across a local area network, yielding a terrific and natural-feeling game play experience. Playing across the Internet will typically add another 25-75ms of latency."

I could imagine playing something turn based maybe. RPG?

 

[Phawx]

I was thinking about posting this. Is this the same people playing crysis on a iphone?

Also:

"Can I really play games remotely – won’t latency be a problem?

Yes, you can. We plan to ship with an average end-to-end latency of approximately 100ms across a local area network, yielding a terrific and natural-feeling game play experience. Playing across the Internet will typically add another 25-75ms of latency."

I could imagine playing something turn based maybe. RPG?

Personally I would like to play Diablo 3 on my pandora.

 

[Etinin]

I doubt you will ever get any computer/console game to run on the Pandora through any kind of remote processing approach with a decent latency.
If the increase were only 100ms, it would be fine, but I really doubt that's possible.

 

[berichandcreamy]

hmm so I suppose we should see how this works when people start reviewing it first.

 

[Etinin]

What I find funny is how people believe 100ms and 200ms is a big latency.
You won't even notice the difference unless you're playing an FPS game.

I still doubt it is technically feasible to transmit so much image data at such a great speed, unless you sacrifice A LOT of quality.

 

[berichandcreamy]

Supposedly 10ms is enough to make street fighter unplayable at any sort of "real" competitive level =P

Would be kind of cool to stream netflix from 360 to pandora though!

(I think it would be impossible to get enough information on their technology to make it possible to port ever)

 

[droneb]

"in average, humans have a reaction time of 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus"

Columbus Ohio Local Outreach team. "Neural Networks" from the ‚"Frontiers in Physiology Project" The American Physiological Society. 1997.

and theres also that humans has a visual sensibility to about 50Hz

so do the maths

100ms delay plus 250ms reaction times plus ++ to the video devices delay(lcd and plasmas).
now then add controler cmd sending times.

++350ms!

thats like playing a laggy day or the technological equivalent of drinking alcohol.

(just hope the audio is sync with the video or it will get you a nice confussion headache).

 

[-Tj-]

Twitch games probably won't be that great to play over the network, but it might be good for RPGs or turn-based strategy games. I do like the idea of playing around the house over the network though. Might be fun to play Xbox 360 in bed on Pandora.

 

[Enverex]

"in average, humans have a reaction time of 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus"

Columbus Ohio Local Outreach team. "Neural Networks" from the ‚"Frontiers in Physiology Project" The American Physiological Society. 1997.

and theres also that humans has a visual sensibility to about 50Hz

so do the maths

100ms delay plus 250ms reaction times plus ++ to the video devices delay(lcd and plasmas).
now then add controler cmd sending times.

++350ms!

thats like playing a laggy day or the technological equivalent of drinking alcohol.

(just hope the audio is sync with the video or it will get you a nice confussion headache).

The 35ms delay on my LCD TV threw me off Guitar Hero until it was corrected via the Game's own calibration system, so yes, it can make a big difference. A 100ms input/video delay on a FPS would drive many people mad.

 

[Etinin]

All consoles naturaly have a latency of around 180ms and noone complains about them.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article

 

[Phawx]

That article is about controller latency.

This article explains the amount of latency it takes for your PC to get to the screen as well as mouse latency:

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3601

125ms is the maximum latency you want. Anything over that and it's easily noticed. Killzone 2 has latency as high as 250ms if you leave HDMI processing on with the PS3.

 

[Jourdy288]

So you would need some way to adjust for the delay, perhaps you could calibrate it somehow? Like guitar hero, for instance.

 

[Bagera]

You can't calibrate away more than very simple commands as in GH. To tell the game that if it shows a button to be pushed and the player pushes this button within 300ms it's ok, that's easy. To tell the game to turn left 300ms before the player pushes left is hard, you need some kind of precogputer.
But that's only a problem in racinggames and shooters and other fast games. FFVII should work

 

[droneb]

Calibration does only work on Time based Games.

more beyond things like action games usually you will go mad, the only thing it might enhance is the equilibrium of handicap.

the only thing i see that would work is that everyone should get drunk up to .11% and then it would be less noticeable. (on multiplayer gametypes)

it will be definitly useless in Real time AI based games.

ive seen this issue before and it def sucks.

DDR on the Vainilla PS1 and tested against the PSX had and awfull inconstant time variations. i dont remember wich one had larger delay.

 

[Mr.Confuzed]

"in average, humans have a reaction time of 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus"
...
100ms delay plus 250ms reaction times plus ++ to the video devices delay(lcd and plasmas).
now then add controler cmd sending times.

++350ms! ...

Good point with respect to video and controller delay, but I'm afraid human reaction time is irrelevant. Otherwise, we'd all be saying, "OMG! The world is lagging! Wait, no, I am!" Hmm... That might make my signature.

At any rate, I really don't see a problem here, yeah bad connections are going to mess with your game, but how is this any different from any other online game? I typically play Warhawk with anywhere from a 64 to 130ms ping, without any major issues. Maybe I'm not hardcore enough.

What I find funny is how people believe 100ms and 200ms is a big latency.
You won't even notice the difference unless you're playing an FPS game.

I still doubt it is technically feasible to transmit so much image data at such a great speed, unless you sacrifice A LOT of quality.

Kind of with you on this one, but I think a reasonable internet connection should be able to handle 480p, perfect for pandora. That is, as long as the hardware is powerful enough to transcode real-time video with the same compression ratios seen in your typical downloaded movie.

 

[MonkeyChops]

I'd say your more hardcore than those babies that can't compensate for a small delay. Its like when Phil Hellmuth crys because someone didn't play the game the way its "supposed" to be played.

 

[CCmachined]

"in average, humans have a reaction time of 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus"
...
100ms delay plus 250ms reaction times plus ++ to the video devices delay(lcd and plasmas).
now then add controler cmd sending times.

++350ms! ...

Good point with respect to video and controller delay, but I'm afraid human reaction time is irrelevant. Otherwise, we'd all be saying, "OMG! The world is lagging! Wait, no, I am!" Hmm... That might make my signature.

At any rate, I really don't see a problem here, yeah bad connections are going to mess with your game, but how is this any different from any other online game? I typically play Warhawk with anywhere from a 64 to 130ms ping, without any major issues. Maybe I'm not hardcore enough.

What I find funny is how people believe 100ms and 200ms is a big latency.
You won't even notice the difference unless you're playing an FPS game.

I still doubt it is technically feasible to transmit so much image data at such a great speed, unless you sacrifice A LOT of quality.

Kind of with you on this one, but I think a reasonable internet connection should be able to handle 480p, perfect for pandora. That is, as long as the hardware is powerful enough to transcode real-time video with the same compression ratios seen in your typical downloaded movie.

480p widescreen = 853x480 (16:9).

at 24 bpp, thats 853*480*24 bits per image = 9,826,560 bits. Per image. Assuming a minimum 25 fps, that gives us 245.7 megabits / second. Most home connections are 4 to 8 megabit.

8 bits to a byte, so that's 30.7 megabytes per second. Ever download something that fast? Compressing it would definitely reduce image quality significantly, as the information would have to be reduced to 3.3% of it's original size, assuming a reliable 8 megabit (1 megabyte/second) upload connection over the Internet. Which nobody is going to get out of a normal 8 meg (download) connection anyway. 1 megabit upload is an optimistic estimate for even high end internet packages, so the compressed size would have to be around 0.4% of the original in reality.

Factor in upload limits, free WiFi being fairly low bandwidth, internet latency, add compression/decompression time, and that most games play at 60fps, and you have a moderate, far overcompressed experience at best. Audio needs to be compressed/decompressed too, but would have an ignorable bitrate compared to this video stream (160kbps = 0.2 megabit).

This kind of technology is for local networks only. Wired cat5 ethernet is either 100 or 1000 megabit, usually reaching around 40-90% (I think) of those numbers depending on the setup, and has negligible latency (5ms?). This system claims to be getting a 100ms latency over a really fast wired LAN.