The usual I cancel and you suck compilation

[Exophase]

I'd say that if you can't meet your latest self-imposed deadlines, and then slip into 2011, you folks should just admit defeat and pack it in.

And force refunds on all the remaining preorders?

I don't even want to think of what kind of backlash that would cause. Not to mention how financially damaging it'd be to OP.

No matter how long things take and how much money has to be spent to make things happen I don't think admitting defeat is ever going to be an option, especially not now that people actually have Pandoras.

 

[greendots]

I think the issue is that Joost is trying to amass a group of people in order to force OP to work faster. The problem isn't assembly, its quality control of the nubs, boards etc. These problems couldnt have been foreseen by a small company with limited resources and the result is a longer wait time. The pandora is still significantly cheaper then all other MIDs and its got gaming controls to boot.

 

[j6cubic]

There wouldn't be a possibility of getting these images in a size of 800x480, would there?

Sorry, no. I made the last one and while I coud have made it bigger, it would've looked exactly as if I had merely scaled it up. It's pretty hard to get shots of a specific scene in a specific movie at a high resolution on the net (gee, I wonder why).

 

[Chairman_Now]

I'd say that if you can't meet your latest self-imposed deadlines, and then slip into 2011, you folks should just admit defeat and pack it in.

And force refunds on all the remaining preorders?

I don't even want to think of what kind of backlash that would cause. Not to mention how financially damaging it'd be to OP.

No matter how long things take and how much money has to be spent to make things happen I don't think admitting defeat is ever going to be an option, especially not now that people actually have Pandoras.

I think that my response was just as serious as Craig's. I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether he was serious or not That being said, I think that there's a time in the future where if the first batch has not shipped, the project has essentially failed. Again, I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader, but Joost's date isn't an unreasonable one.

I think the issue is that Joost is trying to amass a group of people in order to force OP to work faster. The problem isn't assembly, its quality control of the nubs, boards etc. These problems couldnt have been foreseen by a small company with limited resources and the result is a longer wait time. The pandora is still significantly cheaper then all other MIDs and its got gaming controls to boot.

I think that if Joost had wide support, that OP would find a way to work faster. It is easy to get used to near-infinite patience on the part of your customers; a possible mass-exodus would likely lead to new-found problem solving abilities. The alternative, as Exophase mentions, is just not viable.

Look at this way - the public's near-infinite love of things Apple has seemingly come to an end today. I would have never believed that Jobs would be OK with sending band-aid bribes out to this customers, but that's exactly what they're doing. Better that then to get tagged with a reputation for making a phone that can't get reception, and all this in response to client outcry. Yeah, the shareholders and the analysts are going to be right pissed, but the alternative just isn't an option.

 

[Exophase]

I really think craig was being serious. >_>

 

[paddy]

Craig is very valid in his reply ,we can't very well have a revolt now can we !

Those pics are total amazing super duper funny ,they catch Ed in the perfect light and i like the megagodzilla pandora coloured rays ready to melt a ds or iphone in seconds.

The OP does also have some kind of feelings and thoughts in regards to not having his pandora two years on and it could have just come out all wrong (i am a bad one for that) and yes mabe he was thinking this would push OPT on to try and get units out faster lol (i don't think that would have been the case) OPT are working really hard to get you all those units ,those guys won't sleep sound till the entire first batch is out ,i know this for sure.OPT are not in full control of such things like parts coming off another company's production line ,they are for the most part like us a customer and need to wait it out but OPT remain possitive and soilder on trying to get those parts together and while they wait they are doing other stuff in the background that will for sure make the next run go more smoothly and with much less fails on hardware ,then theres the software that is getting better every single day.

say focused guys ,your pandora will come and it wont be too far away and it will be twice as good as the first units and those units were good.

 

[Exophase]

For all of the claimed legitimacy of craigix's reply I'm going to stand by how I've always felt, which is that it's never appropriate to tell customers you don't want them and goad them into canceling. Especially not over them voicing frustration over not yet receiving a product... Yeah this post was kind of ignorant, but it wasn't really that hostile. Making a cutoff date and making it public makes it a little easier to keep waiting. Getting other people to join you probably does too. And even if the original post was out of line, what good does craigix's response accomplish?

I also think it's pretty stupid to want to purge customers that'll probably never come back.. or maybe arrogant, take your pick. Also kind of selfish, given that craigix isn't that only stakeholder in the company.

 

[milkshake]

For all of the claimed legitimacy of craigix's reply I'm going to stand by how I've always felt, which is that it's never appropriate to tell customers you don't want them and goad them into canceling. Especially not over them voicing frustration over not yet receiving a product... Yeah this post was kind of ignorant, but it wasn't really that hostile. Making a cutoff date and making it public makes it a little easier to keep waiting. Getting other people to join you probably does too. And even if the original post was out of line, what good does craigix's response accomplish?

I also think it's pretty stupid to want to purge customers that'll probably never come back.. or maybe arrogant, take your pick. Also kind of selfish, given that craigix isn't that only stakeholder in the company.

I totally agree.

As Craig is a representative of OpenPandora Ltd its important that you represent your company/product in a professional way I understand that this is a personal project but its also a business and you have to remain professional in situations you may feel like you shouldn't have to.

The way you speak and treat your customers affects the picture they paint of your company i.e.

If your really helpful and nice to the customer he/she is likely to think that the company is a nice company - the outcome of this is that the customer more likely to want to wait.
If your arrogant and snappy to the customer he/she is likely to think the company is a joke - the outcome the customer will loose interest in the company and the product it sells.

I'm all sure you must realise if you have ever worked for any kind of business, if a customer has a bad experience they will tell many times more people about this bad experience than they would a good experience, this is not good.

This is pretty simple stuff I didn't think Craig would or should have re-acted like this.

 

[trix]

Had the OP not attempted to convince others to make a "i'm going to cancel on THIS date" commitment, I would consider craigx's comment completely out of line. As it is, however, I share his frustration at the constant "do it in MY time frame, murphy be damned" topics that keep popping up, especially the early ones claiming "vaporware!!1!" and this "the rest of you should do it too!!1!" type of topics.

Personally, as a person who used to work with customers frequently, I am always extremely annoyed by the type of attention whores that make it a point to shout "I am never shopping here again!" when giving the customer whatever they want is simply not up to me. Especially when that same customer more often then not actually does return to shop again. Hell I've had an amazing number of people shout that to me AFTER I had already told them to leave the store for their disruptive drama-queen attitudes and inappropriate language.

Now granted, in this specific case, the product purchased failed to be delivered in the time frame expected. We all know that. We all know WHY this happened. We all know (well, those of us with common sense) that craig and others would LOVE to have them all shipped already, and are working quite hard to do so. It would be stupid to believe they are TRYING to hold back the Pandora's on purpose to piss you off. I can understand canceling your order if it is not worth waiting to you. I can understand setting a date beyond which it is no longer worth the wait. I cannot, however, understand why a person would feel the need to make a topic on this forum to drama whore about it to the people waiting and the people busting their ass to get it out the door. Further, I cannot understand why a person would feel the need to rally other people to cancel with them when your arbitrary deadline is reached. Why piss in the pool? Such action is similar to setting the date to a boycott, but why boycott OPT? If they have done something on purpose to delay your order, sure, boycott away, but they obviously have not. They obviously have invested a LOT into getting these out there as quick as they can. They obviously have a lot to lose by such actions, and are understandably annoyed when a person tries to hurt their business.

If you want to cancel, shut up and cancel. If you want to set a personal deadline, go ahead, nobody is stopping you. If you want to drama queen on these forums about how you're going to cancel if everything doesn't work out by whatever date you (who apparently knows whats best) decide is right, AND try to get other customers to cancel WITH YOU on that date, please, grow the hell up. To me this just rings as childish, inappropriate, and counter-productive. While I agree Craig could have been more patient in his response, I am personally impressed that after years of this constant childish bullshit, that he didn't simply ban the guy outright.

But, this is simply my opinion, perhaps I too should be more understanding and patient.

- trix

 

[sebt3]

@trix : thanks a lot for this.
You've said what I think way better than I would ever be able to (in this language at least)

 

[trix]

Also, I just wanted to add, that I purposely didn't address the obvious idiocy of "almost two years without any trustworthy update", because anyone with a brain can see how obviously retarded that particular statement is. OPT's constant progress updates, and the community's websites that gather them together for ease of finding, are quite impressive.

 

[Exophase]

The entire argument seems to hinge on the presupposition of the OP "drama whoring" or being a "drama queen." Could I have the same impact by saying craig is also being a drama queen?

I personally don't see this thread as especially dramatic... well, not nearly as much as the responses have been anyway.

 

[trix]

The entire argument seems to hinge on the presupposition of the OP "drama whoring" or being a "drama queen." Could I have the same impact by saying craig is also being a drama queen?

I personally don't see this thread as especially dramatic... well, not nearly as much as the responses have been anyway.

True, it does seem that the OP is receiving more backlash from his post then might be expected, but that is because this topic is just another in a long line of similar "look at me! I'm canceling!" topics that have been appearing since the beginning of the project.

However, I would have assumed the OP was straight up trolling rather then drama whoring based on his post, post count, and registration date, except that the deadline he set seems (at the moment, anyway) quite attainable. Thus, if I assume he is NOT trolling, based on that deadline alone, the only other conclusion that makes sense to me with statements such as "no trustworthy updates" and "global cancellation day!" is that he appears to be purely seeking attention. Either that or he somehow believes his post will make OPT hurry up and send him his unit.

So, between trolling, attention whoring, or simply being completely retarded, I decided to go with attention whoring.

- trix

 

[mali]

I think we should refrain from using too much insulting language as it starts to trigger my MOD-ness.

 

[Exophase]

I have no idea where this mentality of "he hasn't posted before, must be trolling" comes from. Maybe established/integrated users are less likely to disrupt their presence here, but it's not as if it makes no sense that there would be Pandora preorderers that have until now only lurked.

And how exactly did you draw the conclusion from "no trustworthy updates" that he's seeking attention? That just means he hasn't been paying attention. Similarly with the probably rather tongue in cheek cancellation day suggestion, I just don't really get it. Maybe I'm drawing some kind of line between publicly venting frustration and simply "seeking attention", since I don't think the poster is really very interested in drawing attention to himself as much as he is getting something off his chest. That, and wants to make a commitment to follow through with his decision to cancel by then, and making a public proclamation makes it easier to keep a commitment; hey, you can take issue with this but it's pretty basic human psychology. Wanting other people to do it with him is pretty basic human psychology too, ie doesn't want to feel like a chump for finally letting go of his order, so wants affirmation in the form of other people doing it. But like I said, it seemed pretty tongue in cheek.

Really when it comes down to venting I'm not sure I make much distinction between his post and yours (and to some extent mine), so I guess I don't really see what the big deal is. So I dunno... trolling I see no evidence for, attention whoring seems kind of missing the tone and likely purpose. As for "completely retarded", that's just mean, everyone says some stupid things now and then ;P

 

[BaDToaD]

Stop defending the troll people.

His topic is called "My Personal Deadline For The Pandora" so why has he made it public? Simple, he's trolling. If it was personal he'd quietly let it reach his deadline and then quietly cancel.

And what makes these people think we give a flying fcuk about whether they cancel or not? If he want's to cancel then fine but don't try to get others to cancel too.

I think Craig was remarkably nice in his reply considering the <deleted> is trying to stir up trouble for OP.

 

[trix]

I apologize for the insults. I usually try to keep them from my posts. I will try harder!

@ Exophase:

The mentality you speak of, comes from experience on many forums. Those who enjoy trolling, tend to do so on accounts other then their main, to avoid a lot of the backlash, and to lower the amount of people that realize it's only trolling and not serious. Also, on forums that have mods that take action against trolling, established members that have been around tend to know better. Not always, but usually. This is a generalization, sure, but one based on real experience.

To add to that, it wasn't just "he hasn't posted before", but a combination of that and the content of his post, that led me to the conclusion of trolling.

And while it's true that the "no trustworthy updates" could mean he hasn't been paying attention, that would imply he actually said that without checking ANYWHERE to see if there has been any. Why would he complain about something without knowing whether or not that is the case? Could he not have checked the main website, even one time, in the last 2 years? I think it is far more likely that he knew his statement was totally false, easy to prove wrong, and would inspire others to point out it's stupidity. If that is the case, this behavior is (again) either trollish, or attention seeking.

The cancellation day suggestion could have been tongue in cheek, true. I guess I had not considered that. If that was the case I apologize, it simply did not seem that way to me, in the context it was used.

In the end, had the OP come out and said something like "Grrr I am frustrated I've been waiting forever and still don't have my pandora! I think i'm going to cancel if it doesn't arrive this year either!" I would agree with you that he is simply venting frustration, like the tons of similar topics other people have posted. But in this case, the OP had more to say that was not only obviously untrue, but (appeared) inflammatory and seemingly intended to hurt OPT's business more then his own singular cancellation would. Again you are right it could have been meant tongue in cheek, but personally to me it does not seem that way.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER: Just as a sidenote, the use of "trollish" "attention seeking" and "stupid" in this post was directed at the content of the OP's post, rather then the OP himself, as I have no way of knowing whether or not such descriptions are true about him personally.

EDIT2: As I have nothing more constructive to add to this discussion, this will be my last post in this thread. Feel free to disagree, and post your disagreement, just know that I will not be participating further in the discussion. Unless of course your disagreeing reply happens to change my mind about it.

- trix

 

[SomeGuy99]

You guys are funny, sticking up for Craig.

 

[Gerix]

Sorry, no. I made the last one and while I coud have made it bigger, it would've looked exactly as if I had merely scaled it up. It's pretty hard to get shots of a specific scene in a specific movie at a high resolution on the net (gee, I wonder why).

Sorry, I probably should have put a "j/k" at the end of that request...

Anyway, back to the discussion. I think craigix's response was a little harsh. After all, someone (hopefully official? please?) said something about the first batch being finished by October. And this poster said he has been waiting for almost two years. If he ordered at that time, his order must be coming up. I'm at the end of the line, and I'm expecting mine before that point. Everything seems to be coming along since the first units have been shipped. The only thing that can stop us now is <specific disaster deleted to prevent massive irony>. Oh, and TV-Out cables.

On the other hand, setting a global cancellation date, unless it's set in jest as more of a "we promise to be done with the first batch by this date," will only serve to upset the community. And I think anyone sticking to that deadline is ignoring what makes the Pandora great. It stopped being "this is going to be awesome, even if it will take a while" and became "it's a widget that needs to ship by this date." If the last unit is going to ship the day after that date, would everyone still cancel? I think it would be better to think about specific needs. The benefits of having the Pandora either outweigh the wait or they don't. If someone knows what they want to do with their Pandora, I can see them participating in the community. I can't see the same with someone who is waiting for a date. Some will just want the project to fail to say "I told you so."

Off topic: I think we need a board dedicated to forum drama. But that's just my opinion. I'll be in the corner, recruiting firebats.

 

[Bosbeetle]

I could tell my order number but im keeping my pandora!

I agree the team should be singing "don't stop me now" by now

.