The Next Gp*x Revision

[Epicenter]

A set of 4 sounds horrible. The performance of each won't be very good to begin with-- a 150 MHz-equivalent performance part would be about the level of a 50 MHz 6502 processor, and the ARM architecture is closer to 6502 than anything. So what's the winner here, 4 50 MHz-ARM-equivalent 8-bit processors or 1 533 MHz 32-bit processor that uses less power?

I don't see any evidence to support it uses 'less voltage' than an ARM11. Most SoCs using ARM11s run with ~1.5 to 1.8vdc operating voltage for the whole chip. I don't think I've ever seen a pure Z80 run with less than 5vdc, and an embedded one with less than 3.3v. Either way its operating voltage doesn't dictate its power consumption. Its total power draw does.

Power = Voltage in .. volts * Current in Amps. As it stands a 533 MHz ARM11 uses less than a tenth of a watt...

 

[Zeladin]

A set of 4 sounds horrible. The performance of each won't be very good to begin with-- a 150 MHz-equivalent performance part would be about the level of a 50 MHz 6502 processor, and the ARM architecture is closer to 6502 than anything. So what's the winner here, 4 50 MHz-ARM-equivalent 8-bit processors or 1 533 MHz 32-bit processor that uses less power?

I don't see any evidence to support it uses 'less voltage' than an ARM11. Most SoCs using ARM11s run with ~1.5 to 1.8vdc operating voltage for the whole chip. I don't think I've ever seen a pure Z80 run with less than 5vdc, and an embedded one with less than 3.3v. Either way its operating voltage doesn't dictate its power consumption. Its total power draw does.

Power = Voltage in .. volts * Current in Amps. As it stands a 533 MHz ARM11 uses less than a tenth of a watt...

I believe the rather generic formula I was thinking of must involve(or make an assumption of) the proportionality between clock speed and current draw also - which would sort of stand to reason. Anyway we have successfully debunked the ez80 enough that GPH would never consider it - not that they would have to anyway.

I really think multi-core architecture is most useful for building supercomputers, or achieving more performance once the clock speed cap is hit. Its not so appropriate on a portable hand held. And yes okay the 533mhz Arm11 uses a tenth of a watt, but we all know there's such a thing as less even though its small to begin with. Arm is almost certainly the sensible way to go... Someone just happened to say something that momentarily inspired me until I researched it...

 

[DaveC]

320x240 or 640x480 decent normal screen (no widescreen bollocks on handhelds please), a single 400Mhz+ CPU with acceleration (forget about dual CPU, more grief than its worth).

For memory I would say at least 128MB (256MB would be ideal) and should support SD and USB host. A decent D-Pad and the usual 6 buttons + start and select, volume etc.

I would also like to see half decent speakers (GP2X ones are crap) and integrated WiFi. Battery should be Li-On, AA wont cut it now.

I like linux on an handheld, providing its done properly from the start (unlike GP2X) it should work great. So linux as the OS. Also, if you want a decent media player pay someone to port TCPMP or MPlayer properly to it

I am not sure how much the above would cost but the prices some people are saying just look too expensive at £300-£400. I would say £200-£300 would be much better for a system that basically doesnt have a mass market and is homebrew driven.

Li-ion is rubbish. I like to be able to use STANDARD batteries and not have to worry that I won't be able to use the unit as soon as the stupid custom batteries die (does zodiac or giz ring a bell?). Plus if you are not near the mains and the batteries go out you can't use it until you get to a charger. Screw that, too inflexible and constraining.

Widescreens are rubbish on handhelds but it looks like that is where everything is going thanks to everyone wanting to copy the PSP.

 

[chaos engineer]

standard batteries only if you can charge them over the unit directly with a psu and under the condition that you can plug the psu in while power is on without any interruption (I hate it on the gp2x to be in a game with low bat and without any safe state function, if you put in the psu, the gp2x resets, this sucks)

 

[Zeladin]

Li-ion is rubbish. I like to be able to use STANDARD batteries and not have to worry that I won't be able to use the unit as soon as the stupid custom batteries die (does zodiac or giz ring a bell?). Plus if you are not near the mains and the batteries go out you can't use it until you get to a charger. Screw that, too inflexible and constraining.

Widescreens are rubbish on handhelds but it looks like that is where everything is going thanks to everyone wanting to copy the PSP.

Agreed! As to why there isn't a standard with Li-ion as there is for other chemistries I don't know. But I hate stupid custom batteries that wear out in a year or so! Not to mention the fact that no two ways about it Li-ion is more dangerous than ni-mh or ni-cd. I can't believe they can get away with putting them in consoles directed at children (Ds/SP).

I haven't bothered with a psu (it doesn't charge the batteries). I have three sets of AA's and if intending prolonged gaming, I put a fresh set in.

Still sticking to AA's means we can't go for much higher drain processors/ soc's. Or one would have to use three or four! Not practical. Again I find myself mostly satisfied with the Gp2x, except for a few quirks that might be solved by a simple mkIII revision. It's even got a reasonable 3d engine now which is only likely to get better. Anything else just becomes another PSP with an SD card slot! Sort of.... well it sounds funny anyway.

 

[sam fisher]

Why is it not practical to use 4 AA?

 

[Zeladin]

Why is it not practical to use 4 AA?

Well its just kinda bulky don't you think? I mean its totally possible, but it would be like the original Gameboy again... No?

I just had an idea... couldn't one use a Li-ion battery pack that would clip on the back, and use a certain set of contacts, and have a 4AA battery pack that used another set of contacts. Achieving the best of both worlds. Nah, that's really wishful thinking, it's going to be one or the other.

 

[sam fisher]

That would probably take too much room
but I think that 4 AA's could fit, it would just be thick all over the unit, more than just in the middle.

 

[krosfyah]

I just want whatever best suits a handheld N64.

 

[chaos engineer]

I haven't bothered with a psu (it doesn't charge the batteries). I have three sets of AA's and if intending prolonged gaming, I put a fresh set in.

Try to finish ghouls'n ghosts on Mame with one battery set!

not intended prolonged gaming can result in prolonged gaming, these are the moments when I would appreciate to plug the psu in without hard reset.

 

[Trip]

Why is it not practical to use 4 AA?

Well its just kinda bulky don't you think? I mean its totally possible, but it would be like the original Gameboy again... No?

I just had an idea... couldn't one use a Li-ion battery pack that would clip on the back, and use a certain set of contacts, and have a 4AA battery pack that used another set of contacts. Achieving the best of both worlds. Nah, that's really wishful thinking, it's going to be one or the other.

Funny you should say this as I was just thinking about it yesterday.

When i had my first ever gameboy (original version) it took 4 AA batteries, but I also bought a battery pack for it. The battery pack just fitted in where the AA's would normaly go & then you could recharge it from the mains while playing by connecting the power supply to the battery pack.

This is still the best way of powering a handheld that I've ever seen.
Shame I can't find any pictures of one

 

[Zeladin]

Hmm if it was widescreen then there might be enough 'hand space' on either side of such a 4xAA battery pack, with the added benefit that it could be thin if you used a LI-ion pack. Then if you included a usb contact you could produce all manner of add-on packs. HD/Li-ion pack, Extra Sd and Li-ion pack and so on... Thats a bit too gadget freaky though.

@chaos engineer, Yeah I can see what you mean. Of course the only time I was playing long enough for batteries to die was playing scummvm. My solution is certainly limited to the battery life time. Strange that Nintendo managed to get it right back with the original Gameboy... It's totally a MkIII feature. There isn't any kind of mod one could do, do you think. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult, even to build a little charging circuit. Mind you I'd wait until my Gp2x was past its warranty.

 

[Orkie]

4 batteries could easily fit in if you split them with 2 on each side. The bits that would stick out on the back could be rounded slightly and be made into a place to hold it. But then, I'm quite happy with the size of my Lynx II

 

[Thecko]

4 batteries could easily fit in if you split them with 2 on each side. The bits that would stick out on the back could be rounded slightly and be made into a place to hold it.

That's true enough .... cameras do it (well, cameras that use AA's anyway).

But then, I'm quite happy with the size of my Lynx II

Heh - yeah, me too - 6 AA's - awesome

 

[rokdcasbah]

I know there was a topic about this long ago

there have been at least 10. ah well, carry on. i'm not bitter, just weird

 

[DaveC]

Hmm if it was widescreen then there might be enough 'hand space' on either side of such a 4xAA battery pack, with the added benefit that it could be thin if you used a LI-ion pack. Then if you included a usb contact you could produce all manner of add-on packs. HD/Li-ion pack, Extra Sd and Li-ion pack and so on... Thats a bit too gadget freaky though.

@chaos engineer, Yeah I can see what you mean. Of course the only time I was playing long enough for batteries to die was playing scummvm. My solution is certainly limited to the battery life time. Strange that Nintendo managed to get it right back with the original Gameboy... It's totally a MkIII feature. There isn't any kind of mod one could do, do you think. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult, even to build a little charging circuit. Mind you I'd wait until my Gp2x was past its warranty.

Yeah but if it is widescreen then all of the emus will look like shit, hardly a good tradeoff. You can still put in 4 AA batteries with 4:3, you would just separate them. Instead of one "bulge" in the center you could have 2 smaller ones on each end and vertical instead of horizontal like now. This would also give ergonomic "grips" at each end as well. These AAs could be replaced by a li-ion pack as an accessory. This would keep costs down and be an option for those that want it. Look at the Xbox 360 wireless controller. Battery bay accepts standard AAs and also has a li-ion pack accessory.

 

[Zeladin]

Hmm actually I quite like this design, and it's certainly different. And Dave, you're quite right it wouldn't have to be widescreen - as you know my preference it for 4:3.

It could even be used as a switch over method, i.e you would have two separate Li or AA battery packs, so that it would be possible to change over mid game. You wouldn't even have to have two Li-ion packs, and one could even switch from a Li-ion pack to a AA pack - crazy! No more fussing about when battery changing time is going to occur! What do you reckon about two-three hours on a pair of AA's (than means four-six hours for two packs), on a 500~ mhz cpu?

 

[Goity]

We need a 12:9 screen!

 

[Orkie]

You can still put in 4 AA batteries with 4:3, you would just separate them. Instead of one "bulge" in the center you could have 2 smaller ones on each end and vertical instead of horizontal like now. This would also give ergonomic "grips" at each end as well.

Wow, what a great idea!

 

[Tobriand]

Gamegear, anyone?

Although I suppose that was bad mostly because of bulk in general (massive machine) and stupidly shite life for the number of batteries it ate... nice console though, in terms of coolness for it's era...