The Next Version

[chad78]

no don't get me wrong I do like it. I was just thinking about everything that it would Entail. and please no more examples my brain hurts enough as it is sorry if it seemed I went off on you earlier I try to be nice and my words come out mean

It's ok - I over reacted myself. It's cool.

 

[JakeK]

This thread makes my head hurt

 

[Prophet]

chad, I appreciate your enthusiam... but this is a bit silly IMO.

As for a Pandora redesign... considering the current model isn't available yet, we can't really say what needs improvement yet or not. I think we would all do better concentrating on the current design's impending launch.

Also, this isn't Sony or Nintendo - it's a tiny start-up group that may or may not even have the ability to produce new products in the future.

Clicken fur da biggun.



I believe the slide-out keyboard is patented, and that is why it could not be considered for the Pandora. So it likely will not be considered for any future models either, if there ever are any.

Lastly - shame on you for posting that shopped GB Micro image. Do you realize the sort of carnage that will result when kids on places like Gamefaqs find it and start thinking it's the next Gameboy?

 

[phi6]

If there was a next version, I would like some sort of Pandora Gamer's Version, where the form factor would be similar to GP2X + analogs... ie. No Keyboard but obviously same hardware capabilities.

I won't be using the Pandora for much other than gaming so I think thats better for me, as great as the current design looks I'm not entirely convinced it will be as comfortable as the GP2X/PSP design but I guess its the best compromise considering the keyboard.

 

[Exophase]

Tech gets cheaper, smaller, and faster by the second. The PSP shrank, the DS shrank, the PS2 shrank, and then it shrank again. The NES, SNES, Genesis - all of these shrank in their lifespans as products. The GameBoy shrank, and if GamePark hadn't gone under - the GP32 was going to shrink and get much more powerful. The iPod, the MacBook... Do you need more examples?

The consoles were made smaller to reduce manufacturing costs since they could build them with smaller chips. The handhelds were basically made smaller because small is good far marketing and trendy - it's basically a style thing. Nintendo even called the GB Micro "hip." The revised DS and PSP also both had improvements beyond just being smaller or thinner. But neither featured smaller screens. Only the GB Micro pushed that, and while you seem to adore it it wasn't a success. craigix et al aren't going to waste their resources trying to put out something if only a small percentage of number of existing owners are going to be interested in it. This is in stark contrast to the big handheld pushers who will do anything to appeal to a slightly new crowd so they can sell more games, and new games will continue to push the platform sales (where people will buy whatever the newest revision is).

This is also not a mere revision, but a drastic design change that bears basically no resemblance to the original. It also makes many compromises that many people won't be willing to deal with. Nintendo can get away with doing that with GB Micro because they had so many big games that people would shell out money for an inexpensive alternate device like you have (although as I've said, it still didn't do that well). Pandora is way too costly for sure a thing to work.

Talking about new versions before the current one is out is unproductive and I think this is more just another person pushing their alt design that won't happen.

And I don't see how that stylus position could work. That right nub also looks way too close to the buttons...

 

[astro]

Great, you just took a GB Micro, made it wider, and put a stylus sticking out of a place where I wouldn't expect a stylus to be able to go :/
[/quote]

Um, no... I took a GB Micro, made it wider, put a stylus sticking out of a place it could easily go if it were designed to go there, added a third button under the screen - the Menu button, moved the a & b buttons, added the x & y buttons, removed the lines from the D-Pad, gave it a second speaker for stereo sound, made the screen bigger, and added the Tango GUI.

Now, here we have a altered mock up with all of the above - except it wider and taller, the screen is still a little bigger, the speakers have been moved - and I added analog sticks and a slide out keyboard, complete with special "Pandora" function key!



Clicken fur da biggun.


Looney :lol:

 

[chad78]

This is also not a mere revision, but a drastic design change that bears basically no resemblance to the original. It also makes many compromises that many people won't be willing to deal with. Nintendo can get away with doing that with GB Micro because they had so many big games that people would shell out money for an inexpensive alternate device like you have (although as I've said, it still didn't do that well). Pandora is way too costly for sure a thing to work.

*Sigh*... The GB Micro costs less *now* than the GBA SP - but not when it came out. In fact, it was $20 *MORE* than the GBA SP and only $30 less than the DS Lite when it first came out at $99 - I think that was one of the major reasons it didn't do so well. Both other Nintendo handhelds - the DS and the GBA - did everything the Micro could do - and *more* - and one system costs *less*. That's why I didn't buy one until years later. It was not an "inexpensive alternate device" when it first came out - any more than the MacBook Air is a cheap alternative device to the MacBook - the MacBook is cheaper and more powerful - it's just a tiny bit bulkier and $700 less.

I'm not a Micro fan boy - in fact, the first time I bought one, I returned it in less than 24 hours upon learning that it could not play GameBoy games, despite the sales clerk assuring me, based on personal experience so he said, to the contrary. But I do see the appeal of a smaller device. I just used the Micro in my mockup because it was the simpliest device to use. I could have used a OneStation or some no-name pmp-mp4 player thingy. But I am familiar with the Micro - and so I went with that. Plus, it's easier to find high-res photos of the Micro than of no-name systems.

QUOTE

Talking about new versions before the current one is out is unproductive and I think this is more just another person pushing their alt design that won't happen.



Who said anything about being productive? This is a video game forum - not a business office! I like making things up. That's why I offered my take on the GUI. I never thought anyone would take it seriously - and so far none of the people with power to do anything have - but it was fun for me, and it got other people talking about a subject I was interested in. To me, that productivity - discussion, throwing around ideas, learning from other people's opinions, experience, and expertise. I would have never thought of some of the design interface things that other people on the forum came up with. That's helpful to me. And maybe they were able to glean something from me, who knows?

Obviously none of the Pandora staff are trashing the current model to make anything like what I'm discussing. It's just a "What if" - it's just a "What would you like to see?" - it's just a fraking forum thread. If you do not want to participate - don't. It's that simple. If you'd like to offer your thoughts on the subject - not your thoughts on why the subject is stupid - but on answering the question - feel free.

I'm not "pushing" anything. I asked for everyone's ideas - not just for everyone to listen to mine. And some have actually responded to that request. I happen to like phi6's "gamers version" idea - with the simplified controls. It makes it more of a dedicated device than a all-purpose machine, which is kind of why I like game consoles in the first place. Computers are more powerful - but they lack the simplicity and the focused design of a game system. I could see that as a second version - a concurent edition, like the GBA SP and the Micro - or the GBA SP and the DS Lite.... Or, heck, like the PS2 and the PS3. I'm not asking for anyone to change anything or build me anything. I'm just shooting the breeze.

QUOTE

And I don't see how that stylus position could work. That right nub also looks way too close to the buttons...



The DS Lite Stylus holder is directly beneath the buttons - it can be done.

And - this isn't a CAD design, a serious business proposal, or even a user-submitted contest entry. It's just a mock-up that I made, primarily for my own amusement - and secondarily to express visually, my general ideas to the rest of the forum. It's not meant to be exact. If you want to get serious about it - the menu button and the screen itself are nowhere near centered properly - nor is the slide out keyboard. The keyboard should have the number row - or the whole gui is thrown off - the keyboard sides don't match exactly - the font of the x & y buttons doesn't match that of the a & b buttons - the "Pandora" button on the keyboard would serve no purpose - as there is not one on the real Pandora - the font on the MENU button doesn't match the START and SELECT buttons - the analog nubs shadows don't match the rest of the picture - the speakers don't really have any room to exist where they are - the screen hasn't been measured to be either 2.5" or 3.0" like I suggested - and as has been pointed out - literally creating this device as shown would violate several patents, and probably copyrights and trademarks as well. But - hey - it's just a fun picture idea thingy I made - basically the digital version of a slightly fleshed out and quickly polished doodle.

 

[crazedover]

QUOTE

And I don't see how that stylus position could work. That right nub also looks way too close to the buttons...

The DS Lite Stylus holder is directly beneath the buttons - it can be done.

Ahem. Firstly, someone needs to learn to read. Whether the stylus works or not has nothing to do with the right nub being way too close to the buttons. Try checking the travel of the nub on the PSP.

Secondly, if you are so offended by people expressing what they think of your ideas on this forum, I suggest you stop sharing your ideas on this forum. This forum is not your blog. You are always free to publish your ideas on your blog (which is so conveniently in your signature), which would be frequented only by people who agree with you. It's funny how you criticize people for criticizing you here.

 

[chad78]

QUOTE

And I don't see how that stylus position could work. That right nub also looks way too close to the buttons...

The DS Lite Stylus holder is directly beneath the buttons - it can be done.

Ahem. Firstly, someone needs to learn to read. Whether the stylus works or not has nothing to do with the right nub being way too close to the buttons. Try checking the travel of the nub on the PSP.


I can read - he said he didn't see how the stylus position could work - I should him it can. I just left too much in the quotation.

QUOTE

Secondly, if you are so offended by people expressing what they think of your ideas on this forum, I suggest you stop sharing your ideas on this forum. This forum is not your blog. You are always free to publish your ideas on your blog (which is so conveniently in your signature), which would be frequented only by people who agree with you. It's funny how you criticize people for criticizing you here.



For the love of God! I am not saying you ahve to agree with me. I just don't understand why people would waste their time and other people's time by writing "This topic is stupid" only in about 20 times more words than that, on a forum. If they don't want to read about a given topic - they don't have to. I don't write big diatribes about why going on and on about matte finish versus glossy finish is pointless, (it's what's on the inside that counts), or why harping over whether or not the latest render has angles that are too sharp or not is also a waste of time. I just either skip those threads - or I skim over those posts in threads that I want to read.

I didn't say this is my blog - I never asked everyone to agree with me. I specifically, and repeatedly, asked for other people's ideas on what the next version should be like. Instead I get a ton of bullshit about how this is unproductive. Then how much more unproductive is arguing with me about how unproductive this is? Just skip this thread! It's not like it's hard.

If you just don't like my suggestions - then tell me, and I'll either agree with you that what I suggested needs to be changed - or I'll try to explain why I want what I want. Ultimately, many things come down to choice based on personal perference. Yes, the analog sticks in my doodle don't have enough room to move. Yes, there are other problems as listed above - and I'm sure a lot more. But the fact that it is small is *not* a problem or a mistake. It's a choice. I'd rather have a smaller system than a larger one. It's as simple as that. Others, obviously, don't share that preference. That doesn't make me right and them wrong - or vice versa. It merely means we want different things. What I have tried to do is explain my position - why I want what I want, and why I feel that what I want has merit, both historically and logically. That doesn't mean I think everything should always shrink - or that nobody can have a bigger version. It means that I don't think I'm an idiot for wanting what I want. And, maybe not anyone on this forum, but there are some people who might share my ideas - based on what has been done for other systems.

 

[Tobriand]

Quieten down, people.

Whilst I agree with the majority of posters in this thread along the lines of "let's wait until Pandora is actually out the doors before speculating on a Pandora 2", Chad does have a point - if you're not interested, you don't *have* to read the thread.

For now, that's enough. But please don't start flaming eachother, or I'll have to whack a big ugly padlock on here.

 

[OrR]

What do I want from the next Pandora version? Phone! Cooperate with the Openmoko guys and put a GSM module into the thing. Everything else could pretty much stay the same with some minor changes in the arrangement of speakers etc.

 

[Karel Jansens]

I really would love a tablet-style Pandora (minus the keyboard), were it not for one Everest-style obstacle: There are exactly zero -- as in "none" -- handwriting recognition applications for Linux, and the only way to interact efficiently with a keyboard-less tablet, is through efficient HWR.

This at least I learned from my experiences with the Nokia 770 and N800: onscreen keyboards are shite, no matter how much usability study money went into them. Also, and this from my experience with the Newton MessagePad: Newton's HWR is/was as close to perfection as you might ever hope to get from a computer. Sadly, the only thing that even approaches it these days is PenOffice from PhatWare, which only exists for Windows operating systems.

So, unless you can solve the HWR problem, I wouldn't bother changing the Pandora's layout; it's perfect for what it is.

 

[Sphinxter]

Yes you can.

 

[alfatreze]

It looks fine the way it is, though I'd really love to see it have a flip screen, or a tilt n'slide one, so you could flatten it, and use it purely as a tablet. It would make it oh so much comfortable for pen only use. It should also be still in the real of possibility, since it's mostly and enclosure modification. albeit it would certainly make the unit more expensive, and at this point it may tip the scales on the profit margins for the pandora team.
Slide out keyboard could also be nice, but really I'm not too keen on it, since it would probably need to much space.

 

[TJSomething]

Actually, it's not possible. Both of those are patented. It would take big monies to get such a thing on the Pandora, and I think budgets are strained enough as is.

 

[chad78]

So far, it seems like we have four basic ideas

• UMPC only version - no gaming controls - N-Series Tablet style (discussed in a different thread)
• Gaming only version - no keyboard - PSP style with touch screen (discussed in another thread)
• Smaller (Micro / Lite / Mini / Nano) version - more focused on gaming than UMPC - but allowing both
• Don't change much - just add more power

Some things mentioned as possible add-ons / changes - but not a full different version: BlueTooth, GPS, more storage, faster CPU, cell phone, 3G, accelormeter, slide out keyboard, tilt-n-slide screen (closed = tablet mode), Newton-like hand writting recognition software, OpenMoko hardware/software, Android software, maemo software.

We are all aware, or should be, that adding many of these things, or making many of these changes would affect the cost of the Pandora Next. But this is just an dreaming session.

 

[Prophet]

So far, it seems like we have four basic ideas

• UMPC only version - no gaming controls - N-Series Tablet style (discussed in a different thread)
• Gaming only version - no keyboard - PSP style with touch screen url=http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?s=&showtopic=41989&view=findpost&p=608083](discussed in another thread0[/url]
• Smaller (Micro / Lite / Mini / Nano) version - more focused on gaming than UMPC - but allowing both
• Don't change much - just add more power

The first 2 options really kill what makes Pandpra unique tho - it's the combination of keyboard and complete game controls that really make it stand out from everything else. Not sure what percentage of the market wants one or the other, but as it is, the Pandora design is really unusual because of its versatility, and I personally wouldn't want to see that change much.

As for smaller/lighter... perhaps. But a smaller screen really may not be plausible given the resolution. It's already pretty small for that resolution.

Adding more power - that's certainly plausible someday if TI updates the OMAP series and Pandora is successful. So long as good battery life and heat are not a problem.

 

[TheLonelyGod]

That is freaking awesome. I want one.

To the future so i can get one. (Said in a very deep voice)

 

[astro]

So far, it seems like we have four basic ideas

• UMPC only version - no gaming controls - N-Series Tablet style (discussed in a different thread)
• Gaming only version - no keyboard - PSP style with touch screen (discussed in another thread)
• Smaller (Micro / Lite / Mini / Nano) version - more focused on gaming than UMPC - but allowing both
• Don't change much - just add more power

Some things mentioned as possible add-ons / changes - but not a full different version: BlueTooth, GPS, more storage, faster CPU, cell phone, 3G, accelormeter, slide out keyboard, tilt-n-slide screen (closed = tablet mode), Newton-like hand writting recognition software, OpenMoko hardware/software, Android software, maemo software.

We are all aware, or should be, that adding many of these things, or making many of these changes would affect the cost of the Pandora Next. But this is just an dreaming session.



GARBAGE.

 

[chad78]

Clicken fur da biggun.


BTW, keeping in mind, this is just a doodle.... The dimensions of this thing (with the keyboard tucked away) as pictured is about 5" x 2.5" - and the screen is about 3.25" diagonal. This is based on the D-Pad being the same size as the GB Micro d-pad, and the buttons as well. Making it not that much smaller than the current Pandora, which is 5.5" x 3.3". I mean, it is somewhat smaller - but not GBA to GBA Micro smaller by any means. Now, it would probably be a lot thinner, since there's no clamshell, but probably not like .5" thinner or anything...

Considering that - And I really don't want the screen any smaller than 3 inches - and I really don't know of a way to put all the controls on their and make it any smaller - and this mock-up doodle has a number of problems anyway... I don't see a way to make a Pandora Mini. Not without sacrificing a lot (screen resolution, the keyboard, analog controls, etc.). So, yeah, it might get a little smaller frame, and possibly much thinner - but I really don't see the Pandora getting that much smaller - even in 3 or 4 years. Not unless it switches to a projector / camera combo instead of a touchscreen.