The marketing of crowdfunded free software, open hardware (OP, n900, novena, pyra)


comradekingu said:
I made many edits to the above post, dont know if that answers the question, but im thinking about it.
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So the "better" you want to see from the Pyra is strictly marketing? Doing more hype on its "ethical" production, and "freedom" for software and hardware? Nothing to actually change about the development or the production, just bring more awareness? Is that what you are saying?
 
That isnt hype, its real.

We need to figure out how to communicate freedom, because it matters, many people can be nice, only some people are at the core about freedom. Anti IE6 was big, Snowden/anti prism, heartbleed, Net neutrality and so on.

What im saying is the production and the product is fantastic, and that nobody knows about it. (largely speaking) Spreading awareness, call it commercializing, or advertizement if you will, is part of the package. If we treat it so, do it well and stay honest about it, there is no reason to stear clear of it. Eki is doing a lot of good PR, but we need to tap into the general media, and to ordinary people.

Maybe ethical production, pedantic awareness, capabilities, etc isnt crucially important to the general mass of people, but those are great points to make, it is what it is and because it should be. Nothing to hide away.

People are lining up to throw their money at the leica T, and the fairphone, while just another phone to you and me on the outside, sure had enough takers. If we can sell them something better than what they were planning on getting, then we sell devices. Ok many people will only later on notice many of its things, im ok with that.
 
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Well yes, but marketing that has something to do with the product, with how its unique. Not hype, which is for me about how there is that connection.

The community, ED, making the electronics, sourcing the components, picture a 3d-printer going through making the case, or maybe footage from the factory. Then through the production line at GC, not just shakycam, but real production video. Then assembly, then a tour of the OS with the most important features, say that its all FOSS and what that means, what you can use it for and connect to it.

That makes it as real as it is, so that you can almost feel it in your hand, get a real idea about what it is, and what it can do. Something i can show to people and be proud about, so that they get the idea about what it is with the least amount of effort.

Edit: sorry, i see now i did the exact thing i was making a point to avoid, focusing only on faults. :(
 
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Umm... the Pandora already had a non-shaky production video at GC, and a lot other stuff you mentioned in your post is already happening via our blog as well...?
 
It was very good, fantastic initiative,

https://www.youtube.com/embed/KBP5CZeCqJA?feature=oembed
I know the shaking isnt the fault of the project, but the story is very good.

Between those two video there is a story to be told.

Fill in small details of what the pyra is, how much money is going into production, things like that.

This is the fairphone website: http://www.fairphone.com

This is a thinkpad manual:     http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/23p0896.pdf

Did you guys think i was onto something with my focus points, or the yellowtext as a alternative for the neo900 website?
 
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My mum does, yes.

Here it is for a 5 year old:

Just say it as it is,

The story of the pyra,

Someone makes all the things, the products we use in our everyday lives. But the workers making the parts for products made in far away places are often unskilled workers who get so little money for their work they cant afford to feed their families.

The products they make are sold in Europe by someone who can sell them for so much they have a lot of money left over, that is profit. They have so much of this profit that they are rich, and if they were fair, they would have given more of it to the poor workers doing most of the work. The more they get the less they think they can afford to give away.

Transporting the products from one place to the other for no good reason other than to make the most profit hurts the environment for similarly, no good reason. (Editor note, if the 5 year old thinks this is a childrens story and begin asking questions, make sure to point out: Reasons exist because of reasons.  Some tickling may be applied)

Instead of this, the pyra is made in Germany, a place in Europe where people are paid more, and everyone is called franz, the people who live here are very skilled. Worker-franz is very good at what he does, and takes pride in it. He costs more, so the products he makes cost more to buy.

Things have recipies to make them, it is the knowledge it takes to make things. Like recipies, this knowledge can be shared. Sharing is caring. Imagine if someone gave you something to eat and they didnt want to say what was in it. Products like that can be dangerous, and are often made to fail. Then new ones have to be made to replace the old ones which could be working still, that is bad for the environment. Short life and bad quality. Things deserve more than this. Poor things.

The pyra shares the recipie to make it, so that if anything goes wrong with it, it can be fixed at home instead of going to electronics hospital or having to be made into junk.

Inside the pyra, which is a PC, are programs. The programs help it do things. Like play games, go on the internet, listen to music, actually its you doing these things, the PC does it for you, you do it together, you can write stories like this one on the pyra, there are many things the pyra can do.

A PC can be in many things, but this one is a box you can bring along that can be made to do all different types of things. You decide. Each program does one thing, and does it well. And it plays nice with the other programs. Always.

In the world of computer programs, there are two types, the same ones as with the products, there is open (like the shared recipie) and closed (like the hidden one), in the closed world one doesnt know if the program instead of doing what it says, spies on the you when you use it, because it isnt open for everyone to see so they can check if it is made to do that. Open, as in open source. Source is what makes the program. Source open for the world to see is open source. Easy, it means just one thing. You are allowed to see the source.  In the closed world the source sees what you do,  in the open world you see what the source does,

Open source programs can also be _free_, free software, which is allowing everyone to write on the same program, or make a new one that is almost like the old one, at one time there were only knives, then someone figured out how to make a fork out of a knife, these people are called hackers, they are nice people, and they hack the planet now that they have both knives and forks. There is no stopping these people.

Free software programs can also do more, you can use them for whatever you want, yes, like the hackers, like them you can also share your code to make the program the best they can possibly be. The guru does this.

Some even require this sharing of improvements to be mandatory, if something is mandatory it means the law is that you have to do it, some people dont like the law -man, but what it means is someone gave the option to take the fruits of their freedom and wanted in return your improvement to make sure the program can never become closed. This is called copyleft. If you ever meet a gnu who wears sandals tell him you know this, he will be impressed.

The economy of the free open source program world isnt like it is for the workers in the far away places, nothing needs to be forced upon anyone to make it work. It works because people welcome it. Because it gives them freedom, they can work on anything they want,  that ensures freedom isnt taken away. Free software, freedom, or freiheit, as franz would say.
 
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comradekingu said:
My mum does, yes.

Here it is for a 5 year old:
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It was a rhetorical question, posed to make you consider that maybe the market you're aiming for isn't really the best one. You missed the point completely and kept right on driving. You're miles down the road now and I don't think there's room to turn around.
 
You're starting to sound like Craig comradekingu. Our stuff is made in the UK, not by those damn Chinese communists. And it's totally super open!

I for one like ED's honest and no nonsense and thorough communication much more than manipulative marketing bordering on propaganda. I can see how maybe you'd want Pyra to be marketed to the masses more if you also see it as pushing some kind of ideological agenda (which you clearly want), but I see it for what it is - a device loved by a particular group of people with niche desires that totally lacks mainstream appeal.
 
WizardStan: The idea is its not that different to explain something to a five year old, it is making the baseline apt for the average consumer, none lost, a lot gained. Desktop linux isnt just another closed ecosystem. If my mum can use it, and understand it, then so can every mainstream user there ever was. Why make it more difficult than that?

My big marketing ploy isnt 5-year olds. Commence the tickling. But blinkenlights are equally appealing to them as it is to grownups. A lot of machinery isnt interesting only for what it does and how, it also has an artistic quality, a mystery.

Exophase: I like that in china production contributes to general wealth. Many things i disagree with, but i think overall they are doing well. They are self governed, which is more than can be said about for example vietnam, which is a comparable example to make. And i dont think either country has or contributes to problems which have in no part anything to do with us. I am partly to blame, and i take full responsibility. Trying to do something about it.

I dont dislike communists, i am a communist. Well i do dislike most communists i suppose, but the point remains the same.

If i made you think i sounded like craig, i appologize profusely. As for me sounding like craig, I have no words. Do you know how much time ive used debunkering his sales info. How annoyed i am at his way of advertizing? I have _nothing_ to do with him, I am not cheap, and the last thing i would reccomend is products made in the UK by craig, he taped together two power screwdrivers to do assembly (!) and thats the story of the stripped screws out of the box. He never mentioned freedom with a single word, had no qualms about software piracy, and wanted to use Android. I would never ever be a parasite of open like he was. As with the above point about desktop linux, doing that is missing the point. No problem with people using any kind of software they want, huge problem with people using open for the wrong reasons.

An advocate for freedom is what i am, and i think that is a laudible goal. If it has nothing to do with the product, then what has it got to do with anything ive said? That would be ideological irrelevancy, which i would retroactivly agree is bad.  I take a lot of pride in my workmanship, and have respect for others that do too. My agenda is to sell more pyras with focus on freedom and the other points i made, which you seemed to take no note of. Lets have more feedback on those.

I dont like manipulative marketing either, thats why ive said so over and over, evidence can be found in many of the logothreads i have taken part in.

I am just as much as you a fan of ED's honesty, which is one of the primary points i made above. Its a good thing. Where i think he needs help is reaching out to more people, so i try to help with that. Same message, more outreach. More varied sales pitch, wider audience. I stay very much on the straight and narrow. While leica and fairphone sold a lot of things, their products arent perfect, nor is their advertizing. But there is a whole lot to learn. They do something right by the mere notion that they can advertize it and be successful because of it. MS or Sony game divisions are alone worth a lot more than the two of them combined, but i dont care, there i can for the most part only learn to do things wrong very well, not interested. Dont want to compete with that, not in the business to do so, cant.

Let me make it clear, not a single word communicating anything but core functionality and values, done in an intelligent way. Like i would want information for myself, but not in an exlusive way. We agree there?

I dont think the pyra lacks mainstream appeal, because it is poised to be more mainstream than the pandora, and the gp2x before it was.

My neighbour who is 48 and plays no games, asked if he could buy a pandora, mostly for the audioquality, but passed on it because the screen was too small for him.  The reason he almost came to buy one is because he knows me, there are _plenty_ of people who dont know me that well.
 
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comradekingu said:
Why make it more difficult than that?
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And yet that is exactly what you're proposing by putting emphasis on FOSS and where its manufactured, just making it more difficult.The Neo900 and Novena projects are not evidence that that kind of marketing helps, they are evidence that the people that actually care about such things is very, very niche: if you want mainstream you don't need to tell them about things like "freedom" because mainstream just does not care. Hell, I'm in the Pyra's niche market and I don't really care, and I know I'm not alone.

The people that care about pure FOSS and would be swayed by such marketing is a subset of the people who are looking for a good device that does what they want. The people that care about pure FOSS are zealous enough that, when told about a device that sounds kind of like what they were looking for, they will investigate that device on their own to find out if it fits their criteria of "freedom" or not: you don't need to market to them directly.
 
Because then people like my mum wouldnt think they could use one. Read what i write. There are people outside of the linux gaming market, who have tonnes of money to throw away on devices that dont have to be about linux gaming.

Freedom isnt the only point i made. But it seems to be the one you got hung up about. There are people, who do care about every point i made, each big enough to warrant production. If they are not you, then one or more of them are lost on you, that doesnt give you any more credibility in debunkering them, it gives you less. None of the points are mutually exclusive.  None of them are excessive, it isnt detrimental, pyra needs more money not less.

Reaching out to FOSS people, who contribute so much back, have money to spend, and can repair their own devices, whyyyyyyy not!?

However niche. They willingly pay the extra it costs for a nieche device. They arent trying to use the novena as a pyra, so obviously that is a free market to enter. The metal is there, just sell it.

I dont care if you have to market it or not, it makes sense to many people, if it isn't something to buy a device for alone, it is a selling prospect.

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/16295-novena-crowdfunded-open-hardware-laptop-freedom-devices-marketing/#entry335522 is what ED had to say about it.  And it has since made almost twice that!  All advertizing ive seen has mentioned open hardware free open source laptop in some variety. With marketing like this thread. If you dont like it, no worries. But there isnt a neo900 type homepage activly trying to dissuade you from getting one, big difference. I funded that one, and my points can be found earlier in the thread. As its maker said, he doesnt understand why what from a techincal point of view is sound, doesnt sell more. Im a neo900 backer, and i am evidence a bad website cost the project at least 1 gta04 sale.

The neo900 nor novena had any kind of marketing towards general users in casual foras, but they were those kind of devices, big difference.  However the neo900 product is as casual as they come, its a regular cellphone, yet it fails where the n900 didnt go wrong. All things considered, the neo900 marketing might have cost it its right to live.

The neo900 is a casual device, the novena moreso isnt. One had the understandable and casual sales pitch, and that is why at this point in time novena outshines neo900.

If marketing to those extra people who arent core is anything but futile it is worth it. You dont have to be anything but casual to enjoy the pyra, thats the same claim im making.

With that said its about expaning about the userbase of core nerdy user, now that you dont have to be a core nerdy user to enjoy one.

Do you think leica looked at their core market and decided to make the leica T, no, they expanded their market to people who would never afford nor care that much. And yes, where its made is important to what it is. Good craftsmanship and made in wetzlar, by people who care. Do you honestly think it was magic marketing jumbo by an engish guy saying "aperture" that did it? What happens to panaleicas? Blasted off the map.

Did the millions of (new to linux) ubuntu users not care about freedom? Well, maybe they cared about a for them, usable desktop debian. Now cue canonical trying to throw proprietary bits at their userbase, the most casual of grandmothers. Huge uproar.

Whatever the core market is, that is whats is already there, one of the points i made. and it doesnt need to be "advertized" to. Wrong point to make, as im clearly trying to educate rather than to sway.

TL;DR Focusing on what the product is, for its benefits, which are unique, isnt difficult. Nor is it difficult to understand that this is beneficial, or?
 
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comradekingu said:
Freedom isnt the only point i made
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It's the only one I've been questioning. If you had other points they were intentionally ignored while I try to understand why you think this one specific point is needed in an advertising campaign.
comradekingu said:
Because then people like my mum wouldnt think they could use one
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Highlighting FOSS and manufacturing location will make someone think they can use it? You have some evidence to back this up? Because in my experience trying to explain "freedom" and the logistics of manufacturing to people (who aren't expressing an interest in such things already) just makes it seem more complicated and less likely that they'll be interested.
comradekingu said:
Read what i write
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Write something worth reading.
 
I don't know. What does that have to do with anything?

You can't just turn this around. You're the one pushing an agenda. I'm asking you to justify that agenda. I'm not making claims here, I'm trying to understand you.
 
Well it seems the novena has made strides now that the core community has decided to spread news about it. Moreso than i would say a natural progression of a campaign usually is.

Could also have to do with how novena has largely built its community during the campaign. The maker faire was just recently held, where bunnie did a talk.

One of my points was photography, id be very interested to use it for that aswell. Many photographers have camerabags that are heavy, and would really appreciate having a tool that can read two SD-cards, linux|gnu provides real editing options rather than what is on the camera. Also a few have two bodies, and its a pain to configure online accounts/wifi on most, if not double or even worse amount of effort to get it all to work.

Maybe its catering part of the site to photographers, maybe its sending a review unit to a famous one. In any event its a large market. i think its just about thinking a bit differently and getting that idea across.

How many laptops are pocketable and have 2 SD card slots? One is hard-pressed to find a full one nowadays. Rigging up a laptop is a chore in most parts of the field. This is infinately better, and it has good battery life.

I think even, if it catches on, selling a good 1080p display option unit is a good call. Pro-gear in the video/photo world commands a huge profit since its so risky and expencive to get into.
 
It's the same as with the Pandora at first. Huge press coverage mainly based on community spreads. We had 4000 preorders within 5 days (paid preorders!), I guess we even had a higher coverage than the Novena has now (some of my videos had 40000 views within a couple of days!)

And yes, once the first prototypes are out and funding and videos starts, I hope we can repeat that.
 
EvilDragon said:
And yes, once the first prototypes are out and funding and videos starts, I hope we can repeat that.
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Unfortunately Craig was here... even if he's not involved, media and people not belonging to this community will all shout that it's a scam... forget a so good start...
 
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