The marketing of crowdfunded free software, open hardware (OP, n900, novena, pyra)


I do hardware hacking projects, and the Novena has some really cool features for this. I'm looking forward to having an on-board FPGA w/ high-speed internal and external IO, dual ethernet ports, USB OTG, and general available ports.

It's a totally different use-case than the Pandora/Pyra. It'll probably make development for 'em easier though :)

I'm definitely getting one.
 
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I dont think freedom is something you use, i think its something to be taken away. One can be ok with that or not.

On a very fundamental level that grinds my gears.

Phones are getting bigger, and while i have hands big enough to make use of that, i still want the keyboard.

The neo900 is small enough to fit in as something i can use in addition to a pandora or pyra.

N900 - pyra - novena - desktop

My desktop has had bare PCB exposed since day one, still going strong.

The thinkpad has drain channels and a plastic film for water. I wouldnt trust pouring water into it, but i really think it does the trick if the accident happens.

The elitebook has some kind of mylar thing, but ive never opened one that way.

The novena is meant to be hackable, and making it not exposed isnt the hardest thing in the world.

Currently im thinking the bare board will do extremely well as a router.
 
congratulations on your win lunixbochs :)

the wooden case on this laptop looks gorgeous
 
I was like, hold on, i know who that is. :)

Whats funny about the campaign is it follows to a tee what was discussed in the http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14049-respects-your-freedom-certification/

It is open hardware, all free software, and even helps fund driver development. I do like that outcome.

Certainly hope the pyra will learn from this. Not only is it possible, it doesnt backfire, and also done right it brings much needed money in the pot.
 
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It isnt just about releasing files, not shipping proprietary software, as many open drivers as possible, the effect is more about making a splash of it. Dont just let it be known, make it a huge selling point, because it is.

As a PR-aspect just stating the above by by itself engineering-talk for those who understand it, even though its quite a simple thing.

Be different, be proud. Us nerds naturally focus on what could be better, and if that is the whole message, allthough honest in being one-sided, its making sure only the hardcore takers take the plunge.  That is secterian behaviour, and i dont think pandora or pyra prospers moreso from being indie or underground.

My empathy mode is trying to read things as my mum, she has used linux on the desktop for at least 5 years, and the things she understands doesnt make a whole great of difference to me because i understand it anyhow, but its about finding the best way to communicate something.  The whole package.

Not having viruses, difficulty in use, freedom, all those things seem very irrelevant when one for example has forgot what the image editing program was called.  If you decide it sucks, then it sucks.

I think a gaming device is so mainstream that these things could be sold to regular users.  Yes i want that gaming system and ---- no i dont want what the others are doing wrong.

Being different and in doing so taking a stance against what the others are doing, is playing on distinctly better qualities.

It isnt even cheezy, and then we dont have to compete on/with things the big guys are better at, design, commercials, etc.  Cater to the same audience with something that matters.

The gp2x used linux for the benefit of using linux, the pandora captured the linux community, i think one step further is to center on whats good with the linux community and help reach out with that to regular customers.

Just the example i made earlier is a good one. Remember the nerds understand whats what anyway, they are already onboard.

Even if they know better most nerds just see an expencive phone, thats when how good it is doesnt matter, it needs to be just as good in its communication.

Getting more users that are less so technically inclined is also bigger responibility and risk, but i think linux|gnu and debian with xfce is at that point right now whereas it was a little tougher back in the day.

Back when ubuntu did things right it wasnt really more difficult than making debian useful for regular people (human beings) and communicating that. Then fixing the papercuts to the point where desktop linux got more widespread.
 
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Novena performs very niche hardware functions and, while it raised a lot of money (but still just a small fraction of what Pandora raised), it did so with not even 300 hardware sales. That doesn't demonstrate at all what impact going all Respects Your Freedom would have on a totally different product like Pyra.

Novena sold to people who want to do FPGA development and/or want something they can easily hack and add stuff to. It's difficult to say how many of those people wouldn't have bought if there was a binary blob for the GPU - but either way < 300 sales is not a huge factor even for something on Pyra's level. And if Novena use an ARM CPU isn't that fast and it doesn't have any 3D support for a while (or possibly ever) it can withstand that because most of the backers didn't buy it for games. Pandora is different. Using a significantly worse SoC (i.MX6 is for all intents and purposes significantly worse than OMAP5 and it wasn't chosen for good reasons) so you can get a reverse engineered 3D driver will definitely make Pyra lose sales and probably more than a couple hundred. Shipping without a 3D driver at all will also definitely make Pyra lose sales.
 
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It performs first and foremost general laptop functions, which are useful to general users, i think it missed that market, maybe because of the formfactor, but being free software all the way through and open hardware _definately_ helped.

How does any general user have use for most of the things that are on a laptop, its a great tool for science that they will use to check recipies on the internet and communicate their dinnerpictures to the rest of the world.

The novena isnt trying to be the pyra, or pandora. 3D anything on anything but a gaming laptop is irrelevant to its market. Hardware acceleration of video is relevant. General desktop use was fast enough on cpu alone a long time ago.

The apple macbook is the mostselling single laptop at any given time, and last time i checked the graphics truly sucked compared to anything else. I see the point, but its not the main idea.

Raising funds with with a loss attached to it is inversly good. All things considered, while few takers, the novena has more margin for what its trying to do.

You are ironically focusing only on the faults of what i said, and not about the good point. Look at the yellow text here and tell me if it makes the neo900 seem more like the neo900 at its best and less like a expencive phone.

I think mine is better, it took 10 mins. I think the neo900 has the reputation of being an expencive phone for no stated reason. Much because of that site. And im one of the backers/donaters!

One cant possibly make the point that a cellhphone is only for geeks. The n900 sold to a _huge_ audience, many of which were regular users, and very pleased with the experience, as evident by it being nokias best selling phone long long after they introduced win-mobile phones. The neo900 isnt very different, but its crucially different.

Compare my effort to to http://neo900.org/

My mum would rightfully so ask about all these: N900, Openmoko, FOSS, closed mobile platforms?, Maemo™ 5, CPU, more RAM and an LTE modem. GTA04, Maemo, Ubuntu or Firefox OS, QtMoko, SHR, Debian, Replicant, OpenPhoenux, unlocked bootloader.

Those are all named in succession, before anything MORE IMPORTANT.

I know what all of these are, but it doesnt tell me much about the neo900 preposition, ive learnt what the neo900 is other places.

There were some relevant points on the site, but they were drowned out by non-buzzword technicaliteis.

My dad would know almost all of them, but between the three of us, which could all buy and use neo900, none of us get our questions answered. All different questions, but still three strikes.

What is the target demographic if it isnt any one of us?

>Finally the first true successor to the N900.

Will there be more successors, what

>the ability to do whatever you want, just like your PC?

My PC is statistically speaking running a closed source OS, why do i get this point?

>The complete device will be ready-to-use at arrival, but please take into account that initially your operating system of choice might be in beta state or even not ready at all.

This type of thing, why does it excuse itself for not being something nobody would fault it for not being?

>Lots of sensors

why not a single picture?

>Battery swap

why is this mentioned along with things every phone has, its quite cool, make a case for it.

>FLOSS stack and privacy

Literally the last point.

>progress bar in red and orange.

This instinctivly scares people away, and the redoing of the bar makes the project seem like a failure, when it met its goal a long time ago.

>We've already collected 76 305 €

That is no longer true as of yesterday, updating the website should happen beforehand, not after the fact.

>Social media

Only cancer, and no pictograms for recognizability

News section

>30 april "there will be no need for transferring the donated money to a new entity as announced previously"

This has changed as of yesterday, update it, again...

>Goldelico still mentioned as part of the project,

when it isnt.

Specs

Same thing over again, i appreciate the table organization, but ive already been exposed to the bulk of this.

>..and more to come! Subject to change during product specification.

How is progress coming along really, where is the product at?  Can i see a timeline of events and planned things?

Contact

>IRC

No explanation of what IRC is

>Social (ly invasive) media

Same cancerlinks to social media. Why is closed platform ok there, but not on my phone? Eat your own dogfood please.

I understand how its convenient for whatever, but thats _not_ the market it has reached, so its the opposite, it takes away from the core, and what the project is. Stay consistent.

Either spying on me is ok, or it isnt. When neo900 communicates one thing and facilitates another i really begin to wonder.

Donations

>Donations are temporarily suspended due to reorganisation. We're sorry for inconvenience.

Get that fixed. Also, its funds/funding. Donations are welcome, but this is where you can actually _buy a phone_  That should be stated in a price, loud and clear, not at the very bottom...
 
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I have no idea what you're getting at. I focused on the GPU binary blob because that is, as far as I know, the only thing that Pyra's doing that makes it less open than Novena. Not sure what's ironic about that.

Nor do I understand why you're bringing N900 into this or Neo900 for that matter.
 
Mr_Loon said:
comradekingu said:
It performs general laptop functions
Click to expand...
Except for being usable on your lap ;)
Click to expand...
It's meant to be super hackable. I think their initial chassis is really just a small part of the product. IIRC some of bunnie's original prototypes with binders etc had a more traditional design.

I'm going to try installing my LCD backwards (forwards, really) and see if I can come up with a keyboard strategy. I've also been thinking about doing a wooden chassis.
 
Im getting at the point that its something to learn from all of it.

  • The gp2x was linux, but not as much as it could have been. (fixed, but more is always better)
  • The pandora was a great success in terms of initial funding, but was funded too cheaply too early. (fixed, lesson learnt)
  • The neo900 has horrible communication, it could be a lot better. (brings us to half of what was the novena success story)
  • The fairphone Generic android non-free ordeal, good ethics, Sold to the biggest market on this alone. (we need to learn from it and join/copy that marketing campaign)
  • The novena was good at something, and succeded at communicating that to its core audience. (FOSS implementation is important to the most core of market, and it attracts people who give a lot back)
If the pyra isnt 100% as free as the novena, but its not in a place that matters _as_ much. The point remains the exact same, and it can be made _a lot_ better.
  • The pyra   Already has a core community, good communication, good transparancy, extremely honest, worldclass support from community and ED.
The pyra is both a extremely portable mini laptop (handheld) for gaming , has Quality Audio, Photography (dual SD and software) tool and is FOSS (anti spying, pro freedom community device.) These are each huge markets, and the synergy between these is huge, and it can be the _best_ at all of them.
The latter point is where the PR needs to be better, the FOSS philosophy is a great point, but _not_ how the FSF plays it. Positive info and opposition, not flamewar technicality and smear-campaigns.

We need a better instruction manual, schematics and technical docs on every component. Something thats "available" in one of those could be communicated to great effect on the next big focal point:

Environmental things are a huge seller, and a laudable goal. Make sure to be as good as possible here. No Ac/Dc adapter included is a selling point that costs less!  Recycling, info on every component, RoHs, long life, slavery free cobolt, brand parts with spare parts available, no planned obsolecense. Can print your own parts/repair locally. User replacable battery, allowed to hack. Modular cpu board.

There are even still distinctly good points to make. Case and the rest all made in Europe, and better, made in Germany. I think its worth it to look into getting the PCBs from europe too to really nail this point.

Imagine all of this with nice instructional pictures or in a nice video and i think we are onto something.

The Pyra is the _you_ device. Its with you, its for you.
 
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Yes, how? And why do you think people care about getting Pyras without AC adapters? And why should I and other non-European buyers care about the PCBs being made in Europe?

Novena sold a niche product to less than 300 people who wanted that niche product... The other conclusions you're drawing for what it taught Pyra it should do are amazing...
 
I made many edits to the above post, dont know if that answers the question, but im thinking about it.

Made in europe and made in the US, as the CC boards were, has a good ring to it, because its especially things like this that are made in sweatshops in the far east. Made in germany sort of rules that out, because even if you make a sweatshop in germany (and thats illegal) it still probably would be more cost-effective to move it to china or vietnam.  One can make a point of good craftmanship and recoup a lot of the costs, maybe even turn a profit overall, by communicating such things well.  Check the Leica T type 701. Made in wetzlar, germany. 

 
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