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Djoga'Ro

moonstruck
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Everyone who is not "political correct" in their opinion will be suppressed and shut down.
I do not understand why so many people are supporting these anti democratic extremists.
That's fascism. I'm sure there are lots of white papers about its dynamics.
 

Null

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The word I heard for it was animism.

I'm the world's biggest materialist but I still complain at my PC like it was alive. :)

Thanks everybody for your help towards the FSF and towards destroying this thread.

Thank you for the compliments. :)


I know it's not much, but it's all I could afford. Now back to thread destruction. :cool:
 

Null

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Also in other news.

 

ElPoco

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From the Open-Letter:
Historically, RMS has been expressing his views in ways that upset many people. He is usually more focused on the philosophical underpinnings, and pursuing the objective truth and linguistic purism, while underemphasising people’s feelings on matters he’s commenting on. This makes his arguments vulnerable to misunderstanding and misrepresentation, something which we feel is happening in the open letter calling for his removal. His words need to be interpreted in this context and taking into account that more often than not, he is not looking to put things diplomatically.
This is reason enough to want to have someone else leading a group.
Public figures representing a movement should be able to interact diplomatically with people outside the movement without having them misunderstand or misrepresent the position of the movement.

RMS did many good things for free software but maybe there are people more qualified than he is to be the public figure of free software.
 
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Djoga'Ro

moonstruck
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From the Open-Letter:

This is reason enough to not want to have someone else leading a group.
Public figures representing a movement should be able to interact diplomatically with people outside the movement without having them misunderstand or misrepresent the position of the movement.

RMS did many good things for free software but maybe there are people more qualified than he is to be the public figure of free software.
You're first sentence doesn't fit the rest.
If by not diplomatically they mean he's not dumbing down his statements in writing, so that people with lesser reading comprehension than required of scientists, engineers, coders, and the like still get the message instead of a totally different one, then they've got it right - but phrased it wrong though. Otherwise they've got it wrong.
 

levi

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You're first sentence doesn't fit the rest.
Maybe a typo. Certainly I think I read it as 'someone like that' when I read it rather than 'someone else'. Rather like the use of the wrong 'your' in your post I guess.

If by not diplomatically they mean he's not dumbing down his statements in writing, so that people with lesser reading comprehension than required of scientists, engineers, coders, and the like still get the message instead of a totally different one, then they've got it right - but phrased it wrong though. Otherwise they've got it wrong.
Not dumbing down, to call adding some social intelligence along with all of his philosophy 'dumbing down' strikes me as rather pejorative.
 

pyrat

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From the Open-Letter:

This is reason enough to not want to have someone else leading a group.
Public figures representing a movement should be able to interact diplomatically with people outside the movement without having them misunderstand or misrepresent the position of the movement.
Maybe, if it is true. But it's the part of the open letter that I disagree more with. I haven't worked much with RMS, almost nothing, and I've heard from people that have worked with him that he is excentrical (more or less acceptably so depending on who you speak to).
But my impression is that he's always been his own way and even joking about himself, not taking his own quirks too seriously. The point is not that he's been a great salesman or something or makes terrific first impressions. He's more of a thinker and can explain
his focus points very clearly. But that was true for decades, and was never such a problem, but a guarantee that the FSF would stay focused. I'm more worried for how the egocentrism and information overload of social networks has become such a habit that cancellation
attacks can be shooted at anyone without any concrete well grounded accusation that anyone could ever use before justice. In the end if you insist that all public figures are perfect diplomats, you will get organizations woking much harmonically because they'll never change anything or think outside the box. They only need to worry about budgets and contracts, and marketign campaigns and it's all easy peasy, but also useless.
It's not that the culture has changed and the thought crimes that were accepted before are unacceptable now, because I don't really think his thoughts even before were really so against the current values. And I don't have to agree with all he says, of course. For me it's more that today it is only possible to express oneself in much more conforming ways than before. It's like today the minimum appearance can rock the boat, because noone takes the time to look beyond appearances. So now people don't want experts in some idea or field, but politically correct people that react as socially accepted in absolutely everything, be it public or private, on topic or off topic, and never say anything unpopular even if they think and act abhorrently when unseen. That's more of a problem than anything RMS can do or say.
RMS did many good things for free software but maybe there are people more qualified than he is to be the public figure of free software.
Well I almost agree but see it from the other side. RMS has already age for retiring and I hesitate to encourage him to continue supporting a merciless mob that won't listen to anything and demands eternal poses about everything. In 2019, I thought RMS had done his share and of course that cancellation was no correct farewell, but maybe some rest would do him good. If I ever did a portion of what he had done for free software maybe I could dare ask him to continue, but since I won't be able, I should know when to let him go with thanks. But if he has tried, and wants to be back, I'm against any hysterical cancellation again. We still need his principles and ideals. But above all we need the debate to return to ideas and not figures. Ethics is not youtube. We need thinkers, not influencers. And arms (body part, not weapon), not pointing fingers.
 

Djoga'Ro

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Not dumbing down, to call adding some social intelligence along with all of his philosophy 'dumbing down' strikes me as rather pejorative.
I think it obvious, that the accusers, that did look at his texts, didn't properly comprehent what he had written and got a different message.
He could have structured his sentences simpler and more clearly and redundantly stated the conditionals in his statements to improve the chances of not being misread like that. And that would have been dumbing it down. ?
 

levi

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I think it obvious, that the accusers, that did look at his texts, didn't properly comprehent what he had written and got a different message.
He could have structured his sentences simpler and more clearly and redundantly stated the conditionals in his statements to improve the chances of not being misread like that. And that would have been dumbing it down. ?
Well yes, and perhaps we're in danger of violently agreeing here, but considering your audience is important when you write for t'internet, especially if you're a big name who's likely to be widely read.
 

Djoga'Ro

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Well yes, and perhaps we're in danger of violently agreeing here, but considering your audience is important when you write for t'internet, especially if you're a big name who's likely to be widely read.
Well, part of his bemoant stuff were his personal notes, that he maintains on his own site to talk about a bit of everything - it bears disclaimers saying that it's just his and has nothing to do with the organisations he works for or with. I'd claim it doesn't matter if it reads dadaistic or like a law book.
The one that started the fire was what he wrote in a mailing list, where people rallied to protest. He there put things regarding some Minsky into perspective, who about the mob was bitching. For that one though he could have taken some clues from Cesar Millan. Like when the dog is highly excited already, your assertiveness must meet that level and you'll only get the most simple concepts through. I gotta admit in that regard he lacked diplomacy skill. But there he wasn't acting in an official role either.
 

Askarus

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It is all about not giving those few people who are against free speech the power and influence they would like to have.
Leaders don't always have to be perfectly non-controversial.
We simply have to ignore these shitstorms and act like free minded and educated people.
 
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