GP2X The F200 Telnet Problem

[GernotFrisch]

It seems like they browse these forums to see what the machine is used for most, and then do the complete opposite.

LMFAO! How do they expect to debug on it now? Writing logfiles and transfer these to the pc for debugging?
It's so so insane.

 

[deluded]

Wow - that would be a dream for many programmers.. I'm currently using 8 LEDs at work

Don't forget you can write to the screen

 

[Vilmos]

Heheh I agree Deluded.

More than once I've been reduced to log files or writing right on the bloody screen as nothing else works.

I've also never bothered to telnet to the gp2x. Develop on the PC, debug on the PC, last phase of testing on the actual GP2X. How hard is that?

 

[deluded]

Would still like to find a workable solution. Can't do any real testing until I have a connector to wire up.

My current project should be fairly simple to write and test on PC, so not a big rush.

 

[Orkie]

And can we not call the F200 a **ck up - we're trying to fix the issue rather than moan about it.

I was always taught that lying is naughty.

 

[sam fisher]

This issue is a non fixable problem.

 

[pder]

QUOTE

If I buy that docking station with the usb ports and the RS232 Port, would that do the trick?

Doesn't the BOB give you USB Host? You can't connect two USB hosts together. You can get a lead that does two usb devices however, but it's hardly practical (and only gives file transfer).


Actually USB host to host cables exist and some are supported by the Linux usbnet driver. Would this make it pretty easy to get USB networking going if you have a cradle or BOB? The link below has some pics of the cables I mentioned.

http://www.linux-usb.org/usbnet/

 

[Squidge]

Wow - that would be a dream for many programmers.. I'm currently using 8 LEDs at work

I usually get nothing more than a single test point and an oscilloscope, so usually are reduced to constantly editing code to toggle that test point to see what the problem is.

But when you are used to a full network debugging suite via samba/telnet/gdb and friends, removing it makes a BIG difference.

 

[Daid]

This issue is a non fixable problem.

I disagree. Just about anything can be fixed. It might take some creative thinking. As the new USB chip is connected directly to the SD card, might it be possible to talk to the chip trough those lines? As the CPU is also connected to the same SD card pins?

QUOTE
More than once I've been reduced to log files or writing right on the bloody screen as nothing else works.

I've also never bothered to telnet to the gp2x. Develop on the PC, debug on the PC, last phase of testing on the actual GP2X. How hard is that?
Works in 70-90% of the cases. But when you are having problems with your display draw routines, huge amounts of data, or special ASM sections that need debugging you are out of luck.

 

[Orkie]

I disagree. Just about anything can be fixed.

No, because in this case, there are plenty of alternative methods of networking but they all cost a fair amount of extra money and a lot of work. Before, it was all built in. This is the problem, not the lack of USB networking as such.

 

[deluded]

What about JTAG??

I know it's normally used on the gp2x for firmware fiddling rather than debugging applications - but in theory it would allow full debugging.

Not sure how (if) you'd go about debugging an application running under linux rather than debugging the whole OS itself. Anyone tried this?

 

[Orkie]

Extra hardware, extra cost. Same problem.

 

[joyrider]

you could just buy an usb to ethernet adaptor, djwillis pointed me this out on irc and you could get everything running like it was on the f100 with that given that there are linux drivers availible for it and you'd have to compile them for arm. it should work but it aint cheap : around 35 euro for such usb to ethernet adaptor + an extra amount of money if you have no second netwerkcard to connect the cable to oh yeah you'd have to create / buy a cable as well. another way would be to use an usb WIFI stick but same thing you'll need wifi on your pc and you'll have to make sure there are drivers availible for it on linux and compile them for arm, bluetooth should work as well. so there are some options but as orkie said these things where once built in and now we'd have to buy new things to get the same functionality. Not to mention a lot of trouble to get the drivers going for it all. and one should need a bob or ext to usb cable. things that were not needed before !

 

[DJWillis]

What about JTAG??

I know it's normally used on the gp2x for firmware fiddling rather than debugging applications - but in theory it would allow full debugging.

Not sure how (if) you'd go about debugging an application running under linux rather than debugging the whole OS itself. Anyone tried this?

Do you have any idea about the practicality of this? I would guess not , you seem to suggest a lot of ‘in theory’ solutions.

It's not just debugging, telnet, networking etc. but you have lost everything provided by the USB Gadget framework. The Gadget framework provides a real wealth of features that now need to be implemented in other ways at a cost to the user and coders etc. – Read up on it if you want to know more about the Gadget framework.

Off the top of my head I have had mass storage, USB networking (telnet, SMB etc.), USB serial, USB audio, some funky MIDI stuff and loads more running on the NetChip/F100 using the Gadget drivers. On the F200 that is just no do'able any more .

Yes, you could add USB Ethernet via the host port on the EXT using a BoB and use that to give you networking support but your looking at a £30+ for a supported USB eth. adaptor, a £35 BoB, £5 for a serial lead to see what is going on, another £10 for a decent PSU for the BoB etc..

As you can see that is hardly a budget option, ok, some people (like me) may have most of the bits laying around but all that for something the F100 gave you out of the box and all you needed was a USB A <> Mini B lead? :blink:

Not to mention the fact that the GPH firmware is missing any USB Ethernet device drivers (we have some in O2X) and the whole thing starts to become a real fag .

If your not a developer or hacker/power user then the absence of the NetChip USB Gadget need not bother you greatly but as should be obvious from some of the threads this is a very real bummer to a lot of devs and yes, I am sure there are work arounds but none of the nice free, out of the box, works on every GP2X type solutions .

 

[Squidge]

you could just buy an usb to ethernet adaptor, djwillis pointed me this out on irc and you could get everything running like it was on the f100 with that given that there are linux drivers availible for it and you'd have to

You could, but then again, you could buy a USB Wifi instead. Doesn't stop the fact that it requires a power cable for the BoB however (does the F200 require a power adaptor too, or did they at least fix that bit?)

I disagree. Just about anything can be fixed. It might take some creative thinking. As the new USB chip is connected directly to the SD card, might it be possible to talk to the chip trough those lines? As the CPU is also connected to the same SD card pins?

Yes, it would be possible. But you would have to remove the sd card first so that it didn't interfere, and then you would have to emulate an SD card on those same pins because that's what the chip is expecting to see.

So you can change the dependency of an SD card to.... an emulated SD card. Maybe we could use that for showing the contents of nand memory, but not much else (with a LOT of work, we could perhaps show internal ram as a file on an emulated sd card, but that's a lot of work for something that would be clumsy and unintuitive).

 

[pder]

I apologize in advance if someone has already mentioned this possible workaround to the usb networking problem on the F-200.

I've been trying to think of a way to get USB networking working on the F-200 as cheap as possible.

1. Buy or build a USB Host adapter cable such as the one at http://www.artaylor.co.uk/gp2x/

2. Purchase a USB Host-To-Host cable such as this one
http://www.clubmac.com/clubmac/shop/detail...urce=cwbfroogle

3. Build and install usbnet.o on the gp2x from the gp2x kernel source

4. Make a small script to configure the usb interface on the gp2x

5. Configure usbnet on the PC as usual.


Does anyone see any problems with this?

 

[deluded]

What about JTAG??

Do you have any idea about the practicality of this? I would guess not , you seem to suggest a lot of ‘in theory’ solutions.


I'm just exploring the possibilities!! If you don't ask....

I guessed JTAG was out - I've only used it for really low level stuff myself before (ARM7 / FPGA etc). Just wondered if anyone had done some magic linux debugger for it.

I've ordered a connector, and will wire it up to a spare RS232 level shifter for now - at least I can get debug out of it. I've also knocked up a script on linux that will grab the latest code from svn, compile it, and copy it to the gp2x via its USB. unfortunately you have to remove the USB before running it, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Squidge]

Depends what driver the lead requires really.

 

[DJWillis]

I apologize in advance if someone has already mentioned this possible workaround to the usb networking problem on the F-200.

<snip>

Does anyone see any problems with this?

In essence it is what I suggest a few posts up. On paper the idea is sound and I have done very similar on F100's before. Just take ART's lead over a BoB or Cradle.

That lead is really 2 USB <> ETH <> USB all in one, well the lead I have like that is anyway.
You may have a snag as my lead draws more then ART's cable will give you on the power front. Remember the USB spec is upto 500 mA max draw from the host, the 2X without some secondary power at the lead/BoB end can provide nowhere near that.

Biggest snag is getting and building drivers, esp. when there is the minor issue of the kernel source for FW4 not in fact being public (GPH and there GPL 'issues').

 

[Squidge]

The F100 had 'USB Device' on it's ext port (linked directly to the SoC), assuming this isn't another fubar by GPH for the f200, you should be able to hook into this and wire it directly to your PC. No special cable required, no usb host required and shouldn't need an additional power supply either