The Effect Of Touchscreens On Console Emulation

[anexanhume]

It seems that today's devices are going more for intuitive interfaces like touch and movements, leaving buttons and sticks in the dust. If this trend continues, it would seem that devices that are available to be hacked for good console emulation would be dwindling. I'm also kind of asking this to ask how people feel about what the pandora offers from another perspective.

Mainly, I'm interested in people's opinions of touch interfaces on console emulation. For instance, I owned an iPhone before I had to sell it for the money to move, and I couldn't stand to use the touch screen to emulate old games.

So, my question is what is everyone's opinion on this? Touchscreens allow for more natural movements and larger screen real estate, but make it clunky for old system emulation. Buttons and sticks can inhibit screen size, though. The Pandora gets the best of both worlds with the clamshell design. If things go like they seem to be going, more pmps and mobile gaming devices will resort to things like this as main sources of input. Where does that leave people who want to use good ole' buttons for their games? Would everyone be satisfied with an external controller plugged into a USB port? (That's seem inconvenient for travel and tight spaces).

 

[Chip]

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. It seems like you're asking us to speculate on the possibility of emulating future consoles which do not exist on other future consoles which do not exist. I don't see how anybody could do that beyond outright guessing.

If you want my "guess", I'd say that traditional controls like joysticks, dpads and buttons won't be going anywhere until somebody comes up with a decent console-brain interface. There will probably be more gimmicky attempts at new control schemes like the Wiimote, but they are in no danger of taking over the market.

The iPhone is a bad example because it is a phone/PMP first and foremost. People play games on it in spite of it's touchscreen-only interface, not because of it.

 

[anexanhume]

Not future consoles on future consoles. The consoles we've always been playing (SNES, NES, Genesis etc.) on systems that have a touchscreen as the main mode of input.

The iPhone is a good example because it shows that everything that isn't a game dedicated device may loose buttons all together. The Wii and the DS certainly make buttons less important than they were before. So, the question is how would people feel if a device did not have buttons directly on it to play games?

 

[Holokauston]

But the iPhone wasn't created to emulate games, not really to play them either, it's a phone (as the name states) with some media functions..?

The Wii has just added functions to their normal control more or less and designed them to work in as many ways as possible and so on.

 

[Exophase]

Not future consoles on future consoles. The consoles we've always been playing (SNES, NES, Genesis etc.) on systems that have a touchscreen as the main mode of input.

The iPhone is a good example because it shows that everything that isn't a game dedicated device may loose buttons all together. The Wii and the DS certainly make buttons less important than they were before. So, the question is how would people feel if a device did not have buttons directly on it to play games?

You said that you expect mobile gaming devices to move to touchscreen only. I find this very unlikely. iPhone was never designed with games in mind. Why do you think gaming devices would move to this kind of setup? Buttons have obvious advantages over touchscreens, not just for classic games but for many kinds of fresh games you could imagine.

 

[anexanhume]

It doesn't matter if the iPhone was created for games. When any new device comes out that has a fair amount of processing power, the natural inclination of a hacker is to crack it and see what kind of games it could be used to run. This happens with phones, PDAs, UMPCs etc.

It seems that all NON-gaming devices may be headed that way, which would relegate all emulation attempts dependent on buttons to gaming-specific devices. Arguably, touch-screen interfaces could become more important on those and decrease the number of actual buttons available for emulation. (especially when you consider one day we'll be emulating the psx and n64 on handhelds).

So, pretend this happens to all handhelds and we cannot rely on enough buttons. Does everything thing using external controllers in exchange for a larger screen is a good trade-off? Do people see the advent of touch interfaces on mobile gaming platforms as a good thing or a bad thing?

Now, say the only way you can get enough buttons is by specific devices made with this in mind (pandora, gp2x, etc.). Does everyone think these types of devices will always have the culture to survive (driven by those who want buttons) ?

 

[Holokauston]

It doesn't matter if the iPhone was created for games. When any new device comes out that has a fair amount of processing power, the natural inclination of a hacker is to crack it and see what kind of games it could be used to run. This happens with phones, PDAs, UMPCs etc.

Doesn't matter? The design has nothing to do with what functions the device is created for?

That people want to modify the device to do something else that's not related to the design.

 

[anexanhume]

It doesn't matter if the iPhone was created for games. When any new device comes out that has a fair amount of processing power, the natural inclination of a hacker is to crack it and see what kind of games it could be used to run. This happens with phones, PDAs, UMPCs etc.

Doesn't matter? The design has nothing to do with what functions the device is created for?

That people want to modify the device to do something else that's not related to the design.


It doesn't matter that it wasn't created for games because people will try and games on anything that will take it. One of the understood goals of this kind of thing is something that fits in your pocket and can do everything you'd ever want to.

In order to answer the question, ask yourself this question. You wake up one day and all mobile devices are touchscreen based with only a few select buttons on the ridge of the device. Does this make you give up on emulating old consoles? Do you use a usb port and plug in a controller? (if it isn't all wireless). Basically, are touchscreens a good thing if they infringe on the design, availability, and functionality of traditional buttons.

 

[Holokauston]

But you're still making a likeness with iPhone and handhelds that doesn't exist?

In theory Pandora can work as a phone, software + a GPRS/3G usb adapter would be the easiest way I think, it' wouldn't be a very practical phone would it, but you can do it (got mic and speakers etc), would you now say that all phones in the future will be replaced by impractical devices for making calls? Does this make you want to give up making calls?

 

[Samalthos]

I don't think buttons will go out of style for a while to come. EX: Could you think of your home PC with a touch screen for a keyboard? for one the key reaction time would be very slow and would have to be calibrated to a pinpoint. But for gaming? I highly doubt Buttons leaving us very soon just because of iPhones having LIMITED
gaming functions

 

[anexanhume]

But you're still making a likeness with iPhone and handhelds that doesn't exist?

In theory Pandora can work as a phone, software + a GPRS/3G usb adapter would be the easiest way I think, it' wouldn't be a very practical phone would it, but you can do it (got mic and speakers etc), would you now say that all phones in the future will be replaced by impractical devices for making calls? Does this make you want to give up making calls?

You are confusing the intent of the device. Making calls, or interacting with other humans at a distance is a given human need. You could also say gaming, or entertainment, is also a human need. However, you get very specific when you say playing old games in their original forms is a need, and not something any mainstream device will necessarily feel obligated to support.

There is no reason to not think devices are going more touch based. It's a more natural form of input and everyone and their mom are announcing ways they are adding these things to their devices.

Is anyone going to answer the question or is everyone intent on trying to invalidate the premise? You act as if it is somehow far-fetched.

 

[Samalthos]

You seem to be operating under the impression that every next gen system will replace every input with touch screen input. Wow that may be an original Idea. But Buttons are just easy and much more cost effective than touchscreen. They are also convenient to the user because they don't need to be calibrated. Could you Imagine the "Big Red Touch Screen Button" Hell to the no! It will always be the "Big Red Button"

 

[Holokauston]

You are confusing the intent of the device. Making calls, or interacting with other humans at a distance is a given human need. You could also say gaming, or entertainment, is also a human need. However, you get very specific when you say playing old games in their original forms is a need, and not something any mainstream device will necessarily feel obligated to support.

There is no reason to not think devices are going more touch based. It's a more natural form of input and everyone and their mom are announcing ways they are adding these things to their devices.

Is anyone going to answer the question or is everyone intent on trying to invalidate the premise? You act as if it is somehow far-fetched.

Not at all, devices where a touchscreen is simpler/more natural will have that, no doubt, but what that has to do with game emulation, that's the part I don't understand?

Devices are designed for their specific use (the intent of the device), the fact that you can play Quake3 on iPhone doesn't mean that the designers of iPhone should take that in to account on their design, just as Pandora designers shouldn't take the fact that it's possible to use it as a phone in to account when designing Pandora.

Any system that has a function as a game platform will provide the controls for it, simple as that, then if you can use a game for ex. on a device that isn't designed for it, then weee fun fun fun but don't think the design will be adapted to that just in case someone should do it.

up until a few years ago phones where just phones (maybe had snake on them) and you base the downfall of emulators in the future on iPhone just because it can play quake 3 but wasn't designed for it?

 

[Chip]

You are confusing the intent of the device. Making calls, or interacting with other humans at a distance is a given human need. You could also say gaming, or entertainment, is also a human need. However, you get very specific when you say playing old games in their original forms is a need, and not something any mainstream device will necessarily feel obligated to support.

They don't "support" gaming now. Mainstream devices which were not intended for gaming have not generally had ideal gaming controls in the past, why would you be concerned that they wouldn't in the future either? Sure, phones and PMPs have usually had some sort of directional device and at least one or two buttons, but they're hardly ever in a layout that is conducive to gaming. Half the time they're not even in a layout that is conducive to operating a phone or PMP. Much like the iPhone, hackers have ported games to these devices in spite of the controls, not because of them. I expect that if your buttonless revolution does indeed take place, things will continue just as they have in the past.

QUOTE
There is no reason to not think devices are going more touch based. It's a more natural form of input and everyone and their mom are announcing ways they are adding these things to their devices.

The industry may trend in that direction, but buttons will never go away entirely. Too many people prefer them. What may be "more natural" to you is godawful annoying to me.

QUOTE
Is anyone going to answer the question or is everyone intent on trying to invalidate the premise? You act as if it is somehow far-fetched.


It is well past far-fetched. It is both illogical and completely irrelevant to the Pandora project. At best, this thread should be moved to Off Topic.

EDIT: That last part may have been a bit harsh.

 

[Exophase]

It doesn't matter if the iPhone was created for games. When any new device comes out that has a fair amount of processing power, the natural inclination of a hacker is to crack it and see what kind of games it could be used to run. This happens with phones, PDAs, UMPCs etc.

It seems that all NON-gaming devices may be headed that way, which would relegate all emulation attempts dependent on buttons to gaming-specific devices. Arguably, touch-screen interfaces could become more important on those and decrease the number of actual buttons available for emulation. (especially when you consider one day we'll be emulating the psx and n64 on handhelds).

So, pretend this happens to all handhelds and we cannot rely on enough buttons. Does everything thing using external controllers in exchange for a larger screen is a good trade-off? Do people see the advent of touch interfaces on mobile gaming platforms as a good thing or a bad thing?

Now, say the only way you can get enough buttons is by specific devices made with this in mind (pandora, gp2x, etc.). Does everyone think these types of devices will always have the culture to survive (driven by those who want buttons) ?

To answer the question you made here, I think that using an external controller for any handheld is a terrible solution and defeats most of the point if you must use one for the primary things you want to do on it.

If there really was an advent of touchscreen only devices (you said to pretend, I don't actually think this is going to happen) then it'd be a massive blow to portable gaming. I would basically expect the entire industry to collapse.

What I really don't understand is why you keep saying that only gaming devices will be suitable for playing games, as if that's a horrible limitation. The cellphone game market has grown, but when it comes to gaming devices like PSP and DS are where it's at (and no, DS having a touchscreen doesn't strengthen whatever point you're trying to make).

I don't know if buttons will always survive, but there's no way that they'd be replaced by touchscreens. You'd may as well expect laptops and UMPCs to drop keyboards entirely. Which is exactly the opposite as what has been happening with UMPCs and tablet devices (there has been more of a drive to include keyboards, not remove them)

 

[0-bake]

The effect of touchscreens in handheld devices?

More and more devices will use touch interfaces, as already mentioned.
But i actually don't get your question. -Devices which are not designed for gaming are....what? Not comfartable for gaming?

I have an iPod touch but i never ever would use one of the emulators. And thats because i own a GP2X, GP32 and a PS to enjoy homebrew games and emulators.
These emulators for touch only devices (iPod touch and iPhone mainly) are more a proof of concept or a project made for fun by the developer.
Nobody can play Street Fighter on an iPhone. But thats not the point. Doom once was ported to the iPod Classic (with the click-wheel) and as you may find, almost every popular open source software is ported to some obscure system.
Why not? If it's not already, let's try if it was possible...


And i hope, the touch interfaces will increase, but for gaming i prefer a joystick (competition pro) and for consoles ans emulation a gamepad, of course.

 

[Arialia]

Touchscreen is perfect for puzzle games , for painting or game "point and click" but for simulation's game like for example Elite, Wing commander, Flight simulator joystik is better, and not only for emulating old games but also for new games

and Pandora have all of that : touchscreen (more intuitive than mouse), joystick (2), pad, buttons and keyboard

Perfect ! All input we need for old games and newer games

Be careful : touchscreens only replace mouse that all, not buttons or d-pad.

 

[groniktom]

well all tho my point is pointless saying now, seeing as Arialia already stated that it may work well for point n click games, i shall now ask a question: how many of u would lyk to see touch screen support on emulated games as the mouse in simon the sorcerer , beneth a steel sky , manic masion ect (forgive my spelling).

 

[Holokauston]

well all tho my point is pointless saying now, seeing as Arialia already stated that it may work well for point n click games, i shall now ask a question: how many of u would lyk to see touch screen support on emulated games as the mouse in simon the sorcerer , beneth a steel sky , manic masion ect (forgive my spelling).

That would be perfect since some of them might be hard to navigate without??

 

[Arialia]

well all tho my point is pointless saying now, seeing as Arialia already stated that it may work well for point n click games, i shall now ask a question: how many of u would lyk to see touch screen support on emulated games as the mouse in simon the sorcerer , beneth a steel sky , manic masion ect (forgive my spelling).

So if exist for NDS why not for Pandora ?
http://scummvm.drunkencoders.com/

so the question would be more : who want made a port of Scummvm on Pandora ?

[Edit]
Dev Homebrewer don't program because some guys want something but because they want program or game for personal reason

when i make a homebrew it is for me first , if others use it i'm more happy ....