Target level of Emulation/Ported games for Pandora 2..?

[Wrath Of Khan]

Wii is a bit too tough ofcourse.

We'd need to tape two Pandora 2s together to manage that feat.

2 p2's taped togeteher =1,500.00 dollars plus 50 cent for the tape!!Bargain for the sellotape!!

 

[urisma]

I highly doubt PS2 emulation will be possible. Hardware-wise maybe, but I doubt anyone will take the time to port EVERYTHING necessary to make it work at full speed. Five(!) recompilers would have to be COMPLETELY rewritten (EE,IOP,VIF,VU0,VU1), and that would be a TON of code. The graphics plugin would also need to be ported to OGLES2 (current ones use OGL 3.3/4.2 with special NVIDIA and AMD extension). Don't get your hopes up.

 

[Null]

50 cent for the tape!!

You mean you still have to pay for the tape.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

50 cent for the tape!!

You mean you still have to pay for the tape.

Yes it's quite a STICKING point!!!

 

[Null]

Yes it's quite a STICKING point!!!

 

[anexanhume]

Don't just assume DC emulation. DrkIziel has to release it for an ARM platform first. Yabause exists for pandora already thanks to Ari64. It can be ported as well as Ari's excellent dynarec.

 

[2bit]

Wow this sounds better than ... A gaming Pc

 

[Foxgod]

They will attempt to get Dreamcast running on the 1ghz unit, for the P2 DC is a given.


For the P2 goals are most likely Windows XP, and many of the games that require Windows XP, Saturn, the entire Dos library, and maybe Gamecube .

Wow really, I had no idea they were aiming that high .. has any of the team actually stated as much.?


And out of interest what level of XP games are we talking about.?

Personally i expect everthing up to DX8, and a couple of DX9 games should work on a lightweight XP image running on a quadcore ARM processor.

I highly doubt PS2 emulation will be possible. Hardware-wise maybe, but I doubt anyone will take the time to port EVERYTHING necessary to make it work at full speed. Five(!) recompilers would have to be COMPLETELY rewritten (EE,IOP,VIF,VU0,VU1), and that would be a TON of code. The graphics plugin would also need to be ported to OGLES2 (current ones use OGL 3.3/4.2 with special NVIDIA and AMD extension). Don't get your hopes up.

ITs why i vote for getting a Tegra ARM processor in the P2, Tegra supports Direct X and OGL.


I would rather not get another ARM processor just cause its 10% faster then a Tegra, because porting everthing to OpenGles is too much of a hassle for that 10% extra cpu power.

 

[Foxgod]

Don't just assume DC emulation. DrkIziel has to release it for an ARM platform first. Yabause exists for pandora already thanks to Ari64. It can be ported as well as Ari's excellent dynarec.

With all the quadcore phones coming up, getting an ARM DC emulator should be a given in time, when that happens a Pandora2 port is likely.


Also we should get later mame build.

 

[ekianjo]

They will attempt to get Dreamcast running on the 1ghz unit, for the P2 DC is a given.


For the P2 goals are most likely Windows XP, and many of the games that require Windows XP, Saturn, the entire Dos library, and maybe Gamecube .

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Foxgod]

They will attempt to get Dreamcast running on the 1ghz unit, for the P2 DC is a given.


For the P2 goals are most likely Windows XP, and many of the games that require Windows XP, Saturn, the entire Dos library, and maybe Gamecube .

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about

How come, a modfied XP can run on a P3 with 128 MB ram, surely a quad ARMa15 should be a lot more powerful then that.


GC requires a single core minimum on a desktop with 1.5 ghz speed, getting it on a small screen should require less.


Dos is already running well on a 600mhz unit, does a lot better on 1ghz unit, and should be a breeze for a pandora that is 3x as powerful


Saturn runs well too on a regular desktop, it should by 2013 be more optimised then it is now, theres a new emu release every year that got quite a performance boost.


Now, let me hear your arguments.

 

[ekianjo]

Now, let me hear your arguments.

3X as powerful ? what does 3X as powerful means ?


You wont have a 3 Ghz pandora, let me tell you. And having 4 cores does not mean 4 times more powerful either. It's far from being linear in case you didnt notice what happened on the desktop when moving from single core to two cores and so on.


And to take advantage of additional cores you need the software to be designed for that. You are just talking about hardware like it does everything!


"Saturn runs well on a regular desktop". Yeah, PS2 emulators do too. So what does it prove exactly ? Pandora 2 is never going to be as powerful as your current modern desktop. Even the latest iPad cannot match the performance of a Xbox360 from already 6-7 years ago, old "desktop" technology.


You completely fail to bring any argument to support your theories that "it will run X and Y on P2".


There's no specs available for P2 yet. There's no software available for P2 yet.


How can you justify "DC is a given" - who said that? who did it ?


You are just talking about wishes. And when notaz or Exophase come around and tell you you are dreaming, you treat them as fools as if they did not know what they were talking about. In case you dont know, they are the ones bringing the best software of Pandora currently, and you would be well advised to listen to them. They are the ones who can talk about what is possible and what isn't.


What kind of authority do you have ?

ITs why i vote for getting a Tegra ARM processor in the P2, Tegra supports Direct X and OGL.


I would rather not get another ARM processor just cause its 10% faster then a Tegra, because porting everthing to OpenGles is too much of a hassle for that 10% extra cpu power.

That's why you dont get to design the machine Machines dont get designed by votes, they get designed by people who know what they are talking about.

 

[craigix]

I only just spotted this thread.


What I'd like to see is further advanced PC emulation, and software improvement in general to the point where you can play the majority of all games that have ever existed, either via emulation or via Android / ports.


I'd also like to see HTML5 working as well as it should, perfect web browsing and exceptional ease of use.


I think the above will all be possible with a mix of Android and Linux.

 

[Foxgod]

Now, let me hear your arguments.

3X as powerful ? what does 3X as powerful means ?


You wont have a 3 Ghz pandora, let me tell you. And having 4 cores does not mean 4 times more powerful either. It's far from being linear in case you didnt notice what happened on the desktop when moving from single core to two cores and so on.


And to take advantage of additional cores you need the software to be designed for that. You are just talking about hardware like it does everything!


"Saturn runs well on a regular desktop". Yeah, PS2 emulators do too. So what does it prove exactly ? Pandora 2 is never going to be as powerful as your current modern desktop. Even the latest iPad cannot match the performance of a Xbox360 from already 6-7 years ago, old "desktop" technology.


You completely fail to bring any argument to support your theories that "it will run X and Y on P2".


There's no specs available for P2 yet. There's no software available for P2 yet.


How can you justify "DC is a given" - who said that? who did it ?


You are just talking about wishes. And when notaz or Exophase come around and tell you you are dreaming, you treat them as fools as if they did not know what they were talking about. In case you dont know, they are the ones bringing the best software of Pandora currently, and you would be well advised to listen to them. They are the ones who can talk about what is possible and what isn't.


What kind of authority do you have ?

ITs why i vote for getting a Tegra ARM processor in the P2, Tegra supports Direct X and OGL.


I would rather not get another ARM processor just cause its 10% faster then a Tegra, because porting everthing to OpenGles is too much of a hassle for that 10% extra cpu power.

That's why you dont get to design the machine Machines dont get designed by votes, they get designed by people who know what they are talking about.

3 x as powerful, what you stated is 3 x as fast, clock cycles are meaningless in terms of power.


A cortex15 quadcore with 4~8 gb of ram, as is being planned is easily 3 x as powerful as a arm7 600 mhz with 512mb ram.


There are specs, Craig will use the best available by the end of 2013, that obviously a cortexa15 64bit soc, with the max amount of ram possible.


This doesnt come from votes, this comes from what craig desires from the P2, and dont go telling me he doesnt know anything about it.


Ps2 emulators dont run on regular desktops, ps2 emulation only runs well on a high end desktop, while gamecube and saturn, and even dreamcast do not require the high end specs that ps2 needs, hence why i claimed gamecube/Dreamcast are possible, ps2 is not, and saturn might be unstable, but that doesnt make much difference in terms of power, more power doesnt make it more stable, it needs more development.


And DC is a given, because as soon as quad core socs become mainstream on phones, DC emulation will be done on ARM, this is only a matter of time.


Or do you expect that DC will remain unemulated forever on ARM setups?


And i never called Notaz a fool, i actually like his work, you are crossing the line here with your claims, i didnt call exo a fool either, i called him a baby for the way he arguments, not for what he knows, or created.


You really shouldnt claim things about me that are not true.

 

[Scntrblob]

Foxgod, in all honesty, what you write in this thread here is best described as a piece of crap.


A lot of wrong- and semitruths facts mixed with a stupid way of trying to understand the technology you talk about.


Gives me some bad shivers reading it, just sayin...

 

[Foxgod]

Foxgod, in all honesty, what you write in this thread here is best described as a piece of crap.


A lot of wrong- and semitruths facts mixed with a stupid way of trying to understand the technology you talk about.


Gives me some bad shivers reading it, just sayin...

What is there so difficult to understand about scaling hardware specs we got compared to hardware specs we will get?


Look at what we got running currently, scale it to what will be available by end of 2013, and you can make pretty good assumptions on what will be possible.


Somehow some of you seem to think that going from the current specs, to a quad Arm will make hardly any difference.


By the time the A15 socs are out, the current specs will be around 5 years old....


Also, thanks for the constructive criticism and strong argumenting....

 

[Balakovo]

"Ps2 emulators dont run on regular desktops,ps2 emulation only runs well on a high end desktop"


I can play Mortal Kombat Armageddon from PS2 on my laptop with almost 3 years old CPU i7-820qm with 60fps.


Tekken 5 is slower but playable.

 

[Foxgod]

"Ps2 emulators dont run on regular desktops,ps2 emulation only runs well on a high end desktop"


I can play Mortal Kombat Armageddon from PS2 on my laptop with almost 3 years old CPU i7-820qm with 60fps.


Tekken 5 is slower but playable.

An I7 is hardly a regular desktop tho, i got an I7 myself, that pretty high end, currently a regular desktop would be a core2duo, and high midrange would be an i5.


The cortex a15 will not be able to match a system that runs ps2 games on 60 fps.

 

[Tenka]

Foxgod appears to be trapped in some unusual dimension full of people who won't agree with him.


I thought i7 processor computers were epic testimates to the power of major companies having things we do not. I think of my Core2Quad as a supercomputer.

 

[diegor]

<p>

They will attempt to get Dreamcast running on the 1ghz unit, for the P2 DC is a given.


For the P2 goals are most likely Windows XP, and many of the games that require Windows XP, Saturn, the entire Dos library, and maybe Gamecube .

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about

How come, a modfied XP can run on a P3 with 128 MB ram, surely a quad ARMa15 should be a lot more powerful then that.


GC requires a single core minimum on a desktop with 1.5 ghz speed, getting it on a small screen should require less.


Dos is already running well on a 600mhz unit, does a lot better on 1ghz unit, and should be a breeze for a pandora that is 3x as powerful


Saturn runs well too on a regular desktop, it should by 2013 be more optimised then it is now, theres a new emu release every year that got quite a performance boost.


Now, let me hear your arguments.

You're talking about thing that not exist yes. You can be sure of nothing about it.And frankly i doubts that would be that powerful.


The power needed to emulate dos is just 1/10th of what is needed for windows xp. So it's hardly proving anything...


At the moment the state of the art is mupen that emulate a 100Mhz mips processor on a 800Mhz arm and while it is almost playable, it is not a full speed.


It's quite difficult for a 1500Mhz processor to emulate a 200Mhz processor. And the extra core don't help at all to improve the situation.