Standard formatting for compatibility lists

[PowerGod]

(I'm sleepy now so I will be short, and will use this as a placeholder for now)

I was thinking there should be some sort of standard for the compatibility lists, to have them in the same format/place for every emulator, but it should be clear all the fields that can be needed, and the best place where to put them.

Just to make an example here are 2 lists we have:

PCSX-REARMED

DraStic

The first is on Google Spreadsheed - It can be edited without an account and has indeed powerful functions, but for example if one wants to see the entries in a different order have to EDIT the document.

The second is on the pandorawiki - You must be registered to change something, but everyone can order the entries just by clicking the field title without the need of edit the page.

I'm working on a script to help updating the DraStic wiki, and I was wondering about the possibility to actually warn about duplicate entries and maybe update the entire page automatically, with minimal work for the user, but this will be a future step, because it should be better to start with well planned things.

1) So, what fields are required for all the categories of the emulators, and what are needed just for some of them ? (It is better to hear from the developers what kind of info they require)

2) What should be the best platform on the net to make them more useful and all in the same place ?

(/me goes to bed -_-  )

 

[Linux-SWAT]

2) wiki ?

 

[Wally]

I think PowerGod is onto something. Wikis are terrible to edit and add new data to (especially for compat lists)


As we have been discussing the possiblities on IRC we have decided Google Docs is the way to go.


As an example I have created openpandoradata@gmail.com and will be adding compat lists that we need and maybe removing unfresh stuff from the wiki.

For first entry:

PCSX Rearmed 

 

[Wally]

If we can make a section for every emulator then theres' no need for a wiki based compatibility list section.

 

[Gausen]

There is real fun there!

 

[kirkanoss]

looks good, crazy watching it get updated

 

[Wally]

There is real fun there!

I agree

 

[ekianjo]

No to Google docs. Not good to depend on a single supplier for vital information.

 

[ekianjo]

If we can make a section for every emulator then theres' no need for a wiki based compatibility list section.

and who ensure everyone knows where the info is stored? and how do you prevent data vandalism?

 

[Wally]

No to Google docs. Not good to depend on a single supplier for vital information.

Its not like google are going anywhere. 

Vandalism can be reverted. We'll see how it goes for a little bit.

 

[Wally]

Created a thread for the Compatibility Lists. 

Collaborative Emulator Compatibility Lists

 

[Binky]

Maybe keep a mirror of the Google doc on ED's server?

 

[ekianjo]

No to Google docs. Not good to depend on a single supplier for vital information.

Its not like google are going anywhere. 

Vandalism can be reverted. We'll see how it goes for a little bit.

sounds like you never heard of google closing accounts. sometimes for no reason at all.

I don't see why you want to replace the wiki. For the recent Drastic compatibility list it was working well. Why keep things in a dozen different places everytime?

I think PowerGod is onto something. Wikis are terrible to edit and add new data to (especially for compat lists)

Huh... no. Never had any problem with that. I did most of the Drastic Compatibility list. You can add several games in one operation instead of going CELL by CELL in a google doc. How inefficient is that?

 

[PowerGod]

I was making an helper application to make easier adding games to the DraStic wiki list, for now it just gets all the relevant info from the emulator log, asks for playability and comments for every game and format the text for the wiki... I didn't released it for now because If many people will just paste the contents without looking for duplicates it can become a mess... maybe I can pndize as a beta if someone wants to try it, to have some testers can't be a bad thing...

Anyway I have a greater project in mind, to find entries already there and update them automatically, but it is not so simple on a multiuser environment like wiki pages...

I still need to study how to do the same thing on the google enviroment... anyway it's still a long road, and maybe is is better to find some standards before doing something

 

[ShleeDragon]

Does Notaz WANT to code these compatability lists into his application... I doubt it

 

[PowerGod]

actually pcsx rearmed logs have already some info about played games, like game ID to be used as a key field for the list, but DraStic have more info, for example the official game title and others info Exophase needs to know... in pcsx i can only see the cd-rom label, but for the full name should be used the filename, and it's not the greatest thing to do... 

 

[double7]

Sorry for digging this up. Seems to fit here best.
 

sounds like you never heard of google closing accounts. sometimes for no reason at all.
I don't see why you want to replace the wiki. For the recent Drastic compatibility list it was working well. Why keep things in a dozen different places everytime?

This applies to the recent change of the drastic compat list too.

@Linux-SWAT: Is there a reason why we need two seperated lists?

Handling two pages the same time seems a little bit complicated to me. Why re-writing a new page and not updating the existing work? It saves a lot of work if you just have to update the version number if a game runs as well on the new version as on the old one.

If we continue to create a new list with each new release, then it will be really confusing. Maybe keep the old list as backup and use a copy for template for the newer version?

 

Wikis are terrible to edit and add new data to (especially for compat lists)

 
Huh... no. Never had any problem with that. I did most of the Drastic Compatibility list. You can add several games in one operation instead of going CELL by CELL in a google doc. How inefficient is that?

I second this. You can do wiki authoring even with vi, mousepad or nano on the pandora and update the wiki later if you are online again. If the list gets to long we could split into alphanumerical sections. Version differencies could be covered by duplicate entries.

Google told me my browser is not supported. The spreadsheet stops with line 30 and there are no games visible. Maybe that works without noscript, maybe not with my browser anyway. The wiki does not have that dependencies. It works fine without scripts.

Yes, you can sort the spreadsheet (if it works) but why would you do that? From the user point of view i want to now how my games work, the entry point is the game name or ID, easily found via ctrl-f.
 
 

The second is on the pandorawiki - You must be registered to change something,

It's a good thing because it prevents spam and you can make up your mind about the source of the information.
 

I'm working on a script to help updating the DraStic wiki, and I was wondering about the possibility to actually warn about duplicate entries and maybe update the entire page automatically, with minimal work for the user,
 
2) What should be the best platform on the net to make them more useful and all in the same place ?

The user does not have work with the wiki, he simply use the search function. It's the editor who have to work with the platform. I think it's not expecting too much to find the alphabetical correct line for a new entry, copy the lines above and edit them. If you use one of your old lines you don't have to enter model, frequency, setup settings, etc. again. Just name, id and comment. I think that's pretty simple.

 

[PowerGod]

I'm working on a script to help updating the DraStic wiki, and I was wondering about the possibility to actually warn about duplicate entries and maybe update the entire page automatically, with minimal work for the user,


2) What should be the best platform on the net to make them more useful and all in the same place ?

The user does not have work with the wiki, he simply use the search function. It's the editor who have to work with the platform. I think it's not expecting too much to find the alphabetical correct line for a new entry, copy the lines above and edit them. If you use one of your old lines you don't have to enter model, frequency, setup settings, etc. again. Just name, id and comment. I think that's pretty simple.

I don't understand so much what you are saying, working automatically with the wiki is not so simple, because pages can be edited at the same time by multiple users... actually the script I worked on just lists the games you played on the last drastic session with all the relevant info (cpu speed/pandora version/drastic version/username/game id/dimension), and just asks the user about the playability of them... but for now it's the user itself that should copy/paste all the generated lines in the wiki... and it's not so useful for now, because one have to manually search for every title to be sure it's not already present with the same drastic version.

My purpose is to make the entire wiki editing automatic, so the user doesn't even have to go there... but I don't find it so simple to make... anyway I plan to work again on this project when I have more time, maybe in august. (Just because Exophase seems to like the wiki list more then the google docs one)

 

[double7]

I'm working on a script to help updating the DraStic wiki, and I was wondering about the possibility to actually warn about duplicate entries and maybe update the entire page automatically, with minimal work for the user,


2) What should be the best platform on the net to make them more useful and all in the same place ?

The user does not have work with the wiki, he simply use the search function. It's the editor who have to work with the platform. I think it's not expecting too much to find the alphabetical correct line for a new entry, copy the lines above and edit them. If you use one of your old lines you don't have to enter model, frequency, setup settings, etc. again. Just name, id and comment. I think that's pretty simple.

I don't understand so much what you are saying, working automatically with the wiki is not so simple, because pages can be edited at the same time by multiple users... actually the script I worked on just lists the games you played on the last drastic session with all the relevant info (cpu speed/pandora version/drastic version/username/game id/dimension), and just asks the user about the playability of them... but for now it's the user itself that should copy/paste all the generated lines in the wiki... and it's not so useful for now, because one have to manually search for every title to be sure it's not already present with the same drastic version.

My purpose is to make the entire wiki editing automatic

My answer was more relating to the format and concept of the list in general. I didn't noticed your real goal first, i'm sorry. My mind was with read-only users and manually editing authors. That was why i merged the old list into the new one. As a user i don't want to handle/search two lists. As a list-updating author i didn't want to copy between two lists or re-type already saved work. But as my one in all list was removed now, this seems obsolete, so back to your goal.

I think you can't do "blind" automatic updates to the wiki. Why? Look at the counter of the emulator, we have 4000 installations out there. If only 40 users use your script, then there is a potential of massive dupes on the entries. You need to read the wiki source and update the list via game id and publish it again.

I don't think that multi user editing at the same time would be a real problem. That risk is very low. Another problem is what if two user have different points of view how a game work? What if a game looks fine for a while but crashes after 2h of gameplay? Both automatic entries are correct from the gamers view but how does your script decide which information is the most useful for the wiki reader?

Edit: After thinking more about it the only idea i got was to setup a "raw" list. That's where the script could report without harm to the actual wiki content and where editors could filter the useful information and add it to the wiki.

 

[PowerGod]

I think you can't do "blind" automatic updates to the wiki...there is a potential of massive dupes on the entries. You need to read the wiki source and update the list via game id and publish it again.

Another problem is what if two user have different points of view...

Actually I don't want to make "blind" updates, the script should search the wiki for [GAME-ID]+[Drastic-Version]+[Pandora type]+[Pandora clock speed]+etc... and if it find a registration already present with all that parameters, I have two choices in mind:

1) it will propose the comment/rating already present by default when the user is asked for playability, so one could append his text or substitute it completely

OR

2) the new comment will be appended to the one already present on the wiki (the script adds the nick after each comment), but only if the rating is the same... or a new registration should be created...

Anyway these problems are not related to the automation, but to how the wiki should be edited even by hand... if you write something, I can change it...

And the script will be always limited to strict strings comparison, so if a game is already present without ID, then a new line will be added anyway... there will always be the need of some manual work...

I just want to make easy for the lazy people (like me) to add entries in the wiki, so the developers can correct more bugs, and all will be happier

I don't know what you have done with the wiki lists, I actually don't maintain them, but I read that Exophase asked to start a new list when he released the last major version of the emulator, and because we are all in his hands... he's the boss !!