Some sort of nationalism argument

[Klepto]

Ah, but can we really exist without them? So long as there is one person stronger than another, and the other willing to fall under the stronger's protection, there will be a hierarchy. Societal simulations have suggested that even in a completely chaotic situation, order will emerge. Groups have a greater chance at survival, and so it should be no surprise when groups start forming. Two people work together to gather food. A third joins them with their own skills. A fourth and a fifth, the group grows and prospers.
I agree completely with this, chimps and other social animals naturally form hierarchys and there is no reason to believe that this is not also an innate human trait. I have no objections to hierarchy within the community, with the community being defined as a group of individuals that includes only kith and kin, some people call this a collective.

Decisions need to be made, and one way or another, some form of government will form to make those decisions. Groups will meet other groups and claims over resources will be made, fights will break out as more hostile groups rise to try and take from others, for such groups always seem to exist. Two groups might form a pact in an attempt to gain ground against a third group, promising to split the spoils. The third group finds a fourth to amalgamate with to protect itself. Larger groups find promise in central establishment, pulling up land for farms and permanent housing that can be continually expanded, enhanced, and reinforced. Eventually you come right back to where we began: order and hierarchy, nations and government, all have been reestablished in some form out of complete chaos.
It is natural that communities will seek to cooperate with others for mutual aid, however as you clearly point out this can lead to the amalgamation of communities which leads to the formation of de facto nations. It's also interesting that the examples you point out all relate to conflict. Nations are not only a result of such conflicts but also serve to promote them as they introduce the idea of the 'foreigner'.

It is not the same order that we have today. Whether it's better or worse is impossible to tell. But it is the nature of natural evolution to move from chaos to order.
I prefer to think of chaos as an order that is not yet understood

Anarchists that I've spoken with seem to think that anarchy can be maintained somehow, or that any society that evolves out of the chaos would necessarily be better than what we have now. Personally, I'd rather not take any chances with natural evolution.
I agree that many anarchists ignore the problem you have identified, it is one of the two main problems I see with the philosophy. The best solution I can see is attaining a critical mass of people who see the dangers of large power structures in the same way as a majority now see the dangers of ultra-nationalism (nazi Germany etc.). In this climate those proposing the amalgamation of power beyond the scale of the community will be prevented by the mass from implementing their proposals in the same way as those promoting race hatred are prevented from gaining power now. How we get from here to there is unclear, particularly as Anarchists tend to reject tools such as coercion and propaganda. Practically speaking I believe it is enough to live your life as independently from the state as you reasonably can and organise directly at the community level. One can deny the legitimacy of the state while still realising the reality of it's power. In a way anarchism is one of the most practical political philosophies as it promotes immediate rational local action over theoretical discussions on the strategy for organisation.

I am not advocating chaos, this is a common misunderstanding of what anarchy means. It is natural and desirable for individuals to work together and this requires organisation, but it is my belief that this organisation should be as decentralised as possible, and should be dissolved when it is no longer needed. Remember that what we have now is a result of the natural evolution of society that you mention, the world we live in is the result of a series of accidents, things do not need to be this way.

Finally, in a futile attempt to keep this on topic, it is a feature or imperialistic states (eg. the USA) to see their own culture as the only valid one. By extension they see their culture as universal and world encompassing. This is why the world 'world' is sometimes used interchangeably with 'American'. The World Series, the World Trade Centre, the World Wrestling Federation are examples of this. In this context it is not surprising that one living within the empire would refer to a recycling symbol as being American rather than international. In the imperialist mind other cultures (foreigners) would all like to be part of the empire but are misguided or don't know how, ultimately they are considered parts of the empire that have not yet been assimilated.

 

[Goity]

I think pretty people should rule the world. Think about it. You can't give ugly people power because they can't handle it. Case in point Cinderella. It ends where it does so that you don't get to see the shrew she becomes after she gets all rich and powerful.

 

[fishybawb]

I think pretty people should rule the world. Think about it. You can't give ugly people power because they can't handle it. Case in point Cinderella. It ends where it does so that you don't get to see the shrew she becomes after she gets all rich and powerful.

WIth the celebrity obsessed world we live in, maybe they already do. With the exception of Paris Hilton, she looks like a horse bred with a whippet.

 

[DaveC]

great, now we have annoying nationalists and militant atheists.

Too bad we didn't have more atheists around, as in the vast majority.

Then we wouldn't have all of these silly wars and terror attacks over things like "holy lands" and over whose fake bible is the "real" one .

 

[AnonymousCoward]

You should all fuck off and die in a nuclear war! :angry:






But only after I get my Pandora and some games ^_^

 

[Tag5]

Well Africa is the true mother continent of them all as we all had evolved from the bushlands, spread afar in search of food and shelter. So enough with the patriotic bollocks and get back to the subject you damn dirty apes.

Saying that I may have opened up another can of worms. B)

 

[Goity]

great, now we have annoying nationalists and militant atheists.

Too bad we didn't have more atheists around, as in the vast majority.

Then we wouldn't have all of these silly wars and terror attacks over things like "holy lands" and over whose fake bible is the "real" one .

My bible is real you hobatch. It is an actual bible made from real tree.

 

[danielliu88888]

great, now we have annoying nationalists and militant atheists.

Too bad we didn't have more atheists around, as in the vast majority.

Then we wouldn't have all of these silly wars and terror attacks over things like "holy lands" and over whose fake bible is the "real" one .

My bible is real you hobatch. It is an actual bible made from real tree.

*ahem*
omg omg omg fuck religions so bads their so stoopid looozers. i luv obamma sooo mch becuz hes blck and relgion saids black ppl r bad. and he always saids "hope" and stufff. i r a radicaal left young prson who think old ppl sux. we shud giv money to all ppls who is poor. socialiszm? i r loves tat idea. moar taxes, moar govnerment moar stimulus!!!!!!

now seriously, do you want more people like that? (well, maybe it's just in america...)

 

[Goity]

omg omg omg fuck religions so bads their so stoopid looozers. i luv obamma sooo mch becuz hes blck and relgion saids black ppl r bad. and he always saids "hope" and stufff. i r a radicaal left young prson who think old ppl sux. we shud giv money to all ppls who is poor. socialiszm? i r loves tat idea. moar taxes, moar govnerment moar stimulus!!!!!!

now seriously, do you want more people like that? (well, maybe it's just in america...)


Nope, everybody seems to have some irrational love for Obama, whether US or not.
I'm more of a Billary person meself, as she is rather sexified.

 

[Tag5]

omg omg omg fuck religions so bads their so stoopid looozers. i luv obamma sooo mch becuz hes blck and relgion saids black ppl r bad. and he always saids "hope" and stufff. i r a radicaal left young prson who think old ppl sux. we shud giv money to all ppls who is poor. socialiszm? i r loves tat idea. moar taxes, moar govnerment moar stimulus!!!!!!

now seriously, do you want more people like that? (well, maybe it's just in america...)
Nope, everybody seems to have some irrational love for Obama, whether US or not.
I'm more of a Billary person meself, as she is rather sexified.
If only the American law allowed it, but I reckon Arnold Schwarzenegger would make an awesome president. Austria rules! Such a beautiful country and the people are so welcoming. If only we were all like the Austrians.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

This is a terrible, terrible emoticon. It looks less sarcastic and more retarded than anything.

 

[Mr.Gonzo]

Obama is obviously the anti-christ.

:lol:

 

[Goity]

Legal steroids for all and all that jazz.

 

[craigix]

I think you should take this outside. Like Men.

 

[Goity]

I think you should take this outside. Like Men.

You're a man. Or at least, you are now...

 

[PoisonedV]

great, now we have annoying nationalists and militant atheists.

Too bad we didn't have more atheists around, as in the vast majority.

Then we wouldn't have all of these silly wars and terror attacks over things like "holy lands" and over whose fake bible is the "real" one .

My bible is real you hobatch. It is an actual bible made from real tree.

*ahem*
omg omg omg fuck religions so bads their so stoopid looozers. i luv obamma sooo mch becuz hes blck and relgion saids black ppl r bad. and he always saids "hope" and stufff. i r a radicaal left young prson who think old ppl sux. we shud giv money to all ppls who is poor. socialiszm? i r loves tat idea. moar taxes, moar govnerment moar stimulus!!!!!!

now seriously, do you want more people like that? (well, maybe it's just in america...)

You're a moron. First of all- the black population is highly religious. the choice 'atheist' vote was probably bob barr or ron paul, one conservative masquerading as a libertarian and one loonie (and racist) masquerading as sane. so the concept of which you're basing your fucking immature little impersonation on is flawed, to say the very least. the rest... i don't even know where to start. suffice to say you're a fucking moron.
(nader '12)

 

[Mr.Gonzo]

PoisonedV you heard Craigix!

 

[gp32rich]

I think you should take this outside. Like Men.
You're a man. Or at least, you are now...Correction. Craig is THE man.

 

[jlepley]

Too bad we didn't have more atheists around, as in the vast majority.

Then we wouldn't have all of these silly wars and terror attacks over things like "holy lands" and over whose fake bible is the "real" one .

I don't think Hitler was very religious. In fact, he was more of a liberal progressive.

On another note, I think this topic should probably be moved to the LOL files. I believe talking politics and religion is taboo.

 

[danielliu88888]

great, now we have annoying nationalists and militant atheists.

Too bad we didn't have more atheists around, as in the vast majority.

Then we wouldn't have all of these silly wars and terror attacks over things like "holy lands" and over whose fake bible is the "real" one .

My bible is real you hobatch. It is an actual bible made from real tree.

*ahem*
omg omg omg fuck religions so bads their so stoopid looozers. i luv obamma sooo mch becuz hes blck and relgion saids black ppl r bad. and he always saids "hope" and stufff. i r a radicaal left young prson who think old ppl sux. we shud giv money to all ppls who is poor. socialiszm? i r loves tat idea. moar taxes, moar govnerment moar stimulus!!!!!!

now seriously, do you want more people like that? (well, maybe it's just in america...)

You're a moron. First of all- the black population is highly religious. the choice 'atheist' vote was probably bob barr or ron paul, one conservative masquerading as a libertarian and one loonie (and racist) masquerading as sane. so the concept of which you're basing your fucking immature little impersonation on is flawed, to say the very least. the rest... i don't even know where to start. suffice to say you're a fucking moron.
(nader '12)


the irony is that you're trying to correct the basis of my impersonation, which was meant to be stupid and seriously flawed in the first place.