SoC Poll - What's most important for you?

[Natsu]

2. Should I try to increase the battery size a bit? It could be possible and get us more capacity, but the battery won't fit anymore in the Pandora (well, except for if we made it thicker and offered a new battery cover together with it).

Please do this.

I know its a long shot and probably expensive if available, but have you been keeping tabs on Silicon Anode batteries ED?

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/174477-at-long-last-new-lithium-battery-tech-actually-arrives-on-the-market-and-might-already-be-in-your-smartphone

He doesn't want to switch battery companies.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@Natsu, fair enough 

@ED,  How much bigger could the battery be made potentially?

 

[ekianjo]

@Natsu, fair enough


@ED, How much bigger could the battery be made potentially?

slighly bigger batteries wont solve the issue here You will get 30 mins more and thats it.

 

[God Ginrai]

It made me think of two things though...

1. Does a Quad-Core A15 even make sense? That would lower the battery life to 1 hour... big.LITTLE wouldn't help here. Full Load is full load, it would use the A15 and not the A7.

Honestly, I think it would still make sense. While they are not a majority, there are still plenty of users who plan to use their Pyra in "infinite battery life" situations. Or as we like to call it, plugged in. And even for those of us who prefer to use it on the go, I'm sure there will be some times when we will plug it in. When I'm using my Pandora near a power outlet, I normally plug it in, anyway, so I'm not wasting battery life. By making the power available to the user, you are giving them more things they can do. I'm sure there are other reasons we could give you as well, but that's the first one that came to mind.

2. Should I try to increase the battery size a bit? It could be possible and get us more capacity, but the battery won't fit anymore in the Pandora (well, except for if we made it thicker and offered a new battery cover together with it).

I understand the benefit of trying to use the Pandora battery, and can totally support it. However, I do think it may be worthwhile to at least explore the options that are available for new batteries. Many people have mentioned wanting the ability to use 2 batteries so they can hotswap the device, and I'm sure a lot of people are just interested in larger battery life. In the end, we could always end up just sticking with the Pandora battery. But that's fine, if that's the decision you come to after exploring different ideas for the battery.

-God Ginrai

 

[EvilDragon]

However, when running both cores at full load with 1,5GHz, consumption goes up... Battery would last a bit more than 2 hours.

Wow, that's a critical issue.

Can you do anything, software wise, to cap the max output to prevent full load when working on battery mode ? I think it's fine to run at this kind of mode if the Pyra is plugged in, though.

Sure, same as on the Pandora: Set the maximum allowed CPU frequency

But don't forget: It means FULL LOAD all the time with BOTH cores at maximum frequency. That's about 6x 1,2GHz Pandora with full load.

Under full load, a Pandora has about 6 - 7 hours battery as well.

In normal work (i.e. when using FireFox), load only increases for half a second and then goes down again.

It would be critical for emulators that would need both cores at full speed all the time.

But what could that be?

DreamCast runs at 50 - 70% speed on the Pandora already, so it should work with the Pyra running with Single Core.

PSP is similar, N64 as well.

@ED,  How much bigger could the battery be made potentially?

I don't know, we need to check with case designers and battery company.

The cell cannot be sized randomly, there are fixed values.

 

[EvilDragon]

@Natsu, fair enough


@ED, How much bigger could the battery be made potentially?

slighly bigger batteries wont solve the issue here You will get 30 mins more and thats it.

Not necessarily.

If we can make the battery cover thinner with more robust plastic and make the lid thinner (the LCD is thinner than before), we could be able to double the thickness of the battery which should be double the battery time.

That could give you about 24 hours battery time when running the speed of a 1GHz Pandora ,)

Something we need to check, but I can't say anything about that yet.

 

[vcoleiro1]

ED,  I take it your running these tests with the new 5" screen.  If so, is there a chance you can take a photo, or preferably video, of the dev board running something on the 5" screen - with a Pandora screen next to it for size reference.?

Hmm, then again you said you had issues displaying anything on the new screen to date - scrap that question then.  Perhaps a pic of the new screen up next to a Pandora screen for size comparison would be good.

 

[ekianjo]

Sure, same as on the Pandora: Set the maximum allowed CPU frequency   But don't forget: It means FULL LOAD all the time with BOTH cores at maximum frequency. That's about 6x 1,2GHz Pandora with full load. Under full load, a Pandora has about 6 - 7 hours battery as well.

Then is this really an issue at all ? Most of the time the Pyra will not be under full load. 

ED,  I take it your running these tests with the new 5" screen.  If so, is there a chance you can take a photo, or preferably video, of the dev board running something on the 5" screen - with a Pandora screen next to it for size reference.?

screen is not working yet, based on earlier post from ED (MIPI interface issues).

 

[Natsu]

we could be able to double the thickness of the battery which should be double the battery time.

If that's the case, what's more likely? Two Pandora batteries or a big battery specificallymade for the Pyra?

 

[ekianjo]

If we can make the battery cover thinner with more robust plastic and make the lid thinner (the LCD is thinner than before), we could be able to double the thickness of the battery which should be double the battery time.

The best thing you could do there would be to effectively design a larger battery if possible, for the Pyra case (i don't know anybody would complain about that) - while still allowing the current Pandora battery to work on it (maybe using some kind of plastic part acting as a pusher when using the Pandora battery).  

 

[comradekingu]

1.5GHz isnt the top end of the 5432 btw.

Ship the regular battery, could always plug a usb power-pack into the dc in usb and run directly from there. 90W hours pack and usb, charge once per month.

Also, if bigger battery options become available, its only a bigger case design away from being implemented. A slide in option is where that means the whole calse, but if its a clip in, you could make a extrusion type job on just the  hatch part, or one of those expanded box batteries like seen for some phones. Like from mugen.

Or a drop in replacement with more joules per space.

The renesas display chip had some pretty aggressive dynamic brightness scaling, so dont worry about full power being a short while. Its still more work available in the same package with the same battery.

The new omap5 can run video acceleration on dsp too, so overall use case power-drain is down a lot. You dont have to run torture tests just because its possible. Besides, the numbers seemingly look worse just because at the other end of that spectrum, its an added ability. That is a good thing. (unless you get a virus Scale it down in software and "problem" solved.

The li-po battery used now works, is in stock, and is tested + backwards compatible.

If the battery is going to be bigger its just going to be a size monster for now, makes more sense to go lithium sulfur once time permits instead. For now the power pack option is nice and flexible for those with those needs.

Besides, if the battery swap thing works, pretty much everyone is covered.

 

[EvilDragon]

Sure, same as on the Pandora: Set the maximum allowed CPU frequency   But don't forget: It means FULL LOAD all the time with BOTH cores at maximum frequency. That's about 6x 1,2GHz Pandora with full load. Under full load, a Pandora has about 6 - 7 hours battery as well.

Then is this really an issue at all ? Most of the time the Pyra will not be under full load. 

That's exactly what I think.

But it doesn't really make much sense having even more A15 cores then, as they will give you more power but even less battery...

Well, except for when you're using it at home with an AC.

 

[ekianjo]

we could be able to double the thickness of the battery which should be double the battery time.

If that's the case, what's more likely? Two Pandora batteries or a big battery specifically
made for the Pyra?

How would you connect the two batteries together? You see how they are made right ?

 

[WizardStan]

2 hours at full load is actually a long time considering. 12 hours doing the same stuff that the Pandora could only last 6 hours doing sounds very good.

So let's say Dreamcast maxes out the Pandora but only runs at 75% speed: you only get 6 hours before it is kaput. But on the Pyra it'll run at 100% but only require... 40% CPU usage? So more than 12 hours of actual play time. There's something wrong here... but I am certain that it'll be more than 6 hours before you need to recharge, even if it's finally running at 100%

Investigate the thicker battery just because more is better, but I don't see it being a major hurdle.

 

[EvilDragon]

we could be able to double the thickness of the battery which should be double the battery time.

If that's the case, what's more likely? Two Pandora batteries or a big battery specifically
made for the Pyra?

A big one. Two Pandora batteries would mean two contacts (which need space) and a more complex charging algorithm.

 

[ekianjo]

Sure, same as on the Pandora: Set the maximum allowed CPU frequency   But don't forget: It means FULL LOAD all the time with BOTH cores at maximum frequency. That's about 6x 1,2GHz Pandora with full load. Under full load, a Pandora has about 6 - 7 hours battery as well.

Then is this really an issue at all ? Most of the time the Pyra will not be under full load. 

That's exactly what I think.

But it doesn't really make much sense having even more A15 cores then, as they will give you more power but even less battery...

Well, except for when you're using it at home with an AC.

ED, yes. HOME USE is super important. This turns the Pyra into a full computer once you plug it on a full screen. I think this is very relevant when running plugged in, so A15 is a good choice when you are in home desktop mode. 

 

[slaeshjag]

But how many people are really going to use it in "home desktop mode"? I only ever use my pandora while plugged in when I'm testing code on it.

 

[ekianjo]

But how many people are really going to use it in "home desktop mode"? I only ever use my pandora while plugged in when I'm testing code on it.

Because it has a HDMI connector, so you will get full HD desktop capabilities from the Pyra. You can't do that at all with the Pandora (unless you use a USB2 to VGA adapter and still it's not perfect either).

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Yes I would love to see 2 Pandora batteries in the Pyra. I mentioned this way back when in my lunatic Dual Screen thread

 

[God Ginrai]

But it doesn't really make much sense having even more A15 cores then, as they will give you more power but even less battery...

Well, except for when you're using it at home with an AC.

They will only give you less battery if you are using all of them. Remember that Exophase mentioned that you can effectively turn cores off. Giving the people the option to have more power for when they want it is a good idea, IMHO. I know I would appreciate that the extra power was there for when I needed it.

Plus, if somewhere down the line, we find out how to make a much more efficient battery that can be used instead of the Pyra battery, those cores become even more useful.

EDIT:

@slaeshjag: Believe it or not, I actually believe there will be a sizeable number of people who will do that. And like I said, even those of us who prefer the mobility could find the use in the extra power when we plug it in.

-God Ginrai