So Are The Batteries Tested At All?

[Polossatik]

IF YOU POWERED THE SYSTEM WITHOUT A BATTERY, SHUT IT OFF BEFORE STICKING THE BATTERY BACK IN. (not an angry sentence, just making it clear.)

I hope this is getting added to the Quick Start Manual, sounds very important indeed to me.

Maybe an better idea to put a message like this on sticker/label in the battery compartment (if it really can damage the battery) ?

edit: trying to make less confusing sentences...

 

[urjaman]

I guess this is why mobile phones dont usually allow running without a battery

But my guess on what would happen (basic logic, I dont know if the chip is going to interfere in some way) if you attach a battery in different (extreme) states while the AC adapter is in CV mode (4.0V):
* Full battery (4.2V): I think it would essentially switch to battery power until the battery voltage hits 4.0V, then slowly transition to AC power (keeping the battery at 4.0V)
* Really Empty Battery: It would dump all the current the it can provide to the battery to bring its terminals to 4.0V. The AC adapters are rated at 2A, with software one cannot program a charge current over 1.7A (but dunno). There may be other limits.

Those would be the "think what a 4.0V regulator would do when a battery is inserted onto its output terminals"-type assumptions.

I went out to read what the TPS65950 should do (according to its TRM) when it senses a battery in CV mode. It should transition to Off Mode. I'm not sure whether that means that the pandora should transition to running on the battery, or totally turn off.

It might be that this is happening. People turn on the pandora with only AC power (CVM), then they attach the battery. The TPS65950 turns off the charge circuit, and the software is unable to control anything, thinks that it is on AC even though its actually on battery or something. The battery gets drained below safe limits and the pandora turns off.

 

[fusion_power]

When a battery is inserted, the power goes into the battery, charges it and the battery powers the Pandora.
When no battery is inserted, the power goes through the charging circuit directly into the Pandora.

This means: If the battery is really empty, the Pandora won't power on when connected to AC until the battery reaches a certain voltage level.

That's what I wanted to know, thanx.
I know the Pandora can run without Battery but I was not sure how the charging works.

Oh, another important point. When I plug the charger into the Pandora and the Pandora was off, the charger turns on the Device completely? I've read such things into the official SW-Status.
But this would be completely useless. I hope the Device acts like a normal mobile device (cellphone...) like doing a quick "on" status and then goes in some mysterious charging-only-status.
I just want to be sure that my Pandora is not really "on" when I only want to charge the Device. I guess one of the many OMAP Power-Saving feartures will manage the charging during "OFF" status.

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh, another important point. When I plug the charger into the Pandora and the Pandora was off, the charger turns on the Device completely? I've read such things into the official SW-Status.
But this would be completely useless. I hope the Device acts like a normal mobile device (cellphone...) like doing a quick "on" status and then goes in some mysterious charging-only-status.

That's planned, but not yet implemented.

 

[Esn]

...

IF YOU POWERED THE SYSTEM WITHOUT A BATTERY, SHUT IT OFF BEFORE STICKING THE BATTERY BACK IN. (not an angry sentence, just making it clear.)

..

lots of decent information about the charging system

Thank you very much, I've added your post to the wiki

I think that's not visible enough, considering how important it is.

There needs to be a separate list of "things that will destroy your Pandora if you do them (or cause you major inconvenience, anyway)", specifically so that newbies know exactly what NOT to do.

 

[sinoth]

IF YOU POWERED THE SYSTEM WITHOUT A BATTERY, SHUT IT OFF BEFORE STICKING THE BATTERY BACK IN. (not an angry sentence, just making it clear.)

I think that's not visible enough, considering how important it is.

There needs to be a separate list of "things that will destroy your Pandora if you do them (or cause you major inconvenience, anyway)", specifically so that newbies know exactly what NOT to do.

Completely agree. I can just see it on reddit now "OPENING PANDORA'S BOX: New gaming handheld burning down homes"

 

[SomeGuy99]

IF YOU POWERED THE SYSTEM WITHOUT A BATTERY, SHUT IT OFF BEFORE STICKING THE BATTERY BACK IN. (not an angry sentence, just making it clear.)

I think that's not visible enough, considering how important it is.

There needs to be a separate list of "things that will destroy your Pandora if you do them (or cause you major inconvenience, anyway)", specifically so that newbies know exactly what NOT to do.

Completely agree. I can just see it on reddit now "OPENING PANDORA'S BOX: New gaming handheld burning down homes"

Can someone please confirm or deny that the battery will catch fire?

I'll have nightmares about this now.
:unsure:

 

[MWeston]

The battery doesn't catch fire, it just gets charged with a 0.5C load which didn't change the temperature of the battery but since it is not controlled, it could be an issue potentially.

I think some people are still missing the fact that running without a battery is an UNOFFICIAL feature. The owner's manual clearly states that you run the unit with a battery installed. I've made that clear in the past. It's just a bonus feature even TI doesn't support well and they call it a test mode too.

 

[Tom`]

IF YOU POWERED THE SYSTEM WITHOUT A BATTERY, SHUT IT OFF BEFORE STICKING THE BATTERY BACK IN. (not an angry sentence, just making it clear.)

I think that's not visible enough, considering how important it is.

There needs to be a separate list of "things that will destroy your Pandora if you do them (or cause you major inconvenience, anyway)", specifically so that newbies know exactly what NOT to do.

Completely agree. I can just see it on reddit now "OPENING PANDORA'S BOX: New gaming handheld burning down homes"

Can someone please confirm or deny that the battery will catch fire?

I'll have nightmares about this now.
:unsure:

Lithium-based batteries usually have some protections built in against this sort of thing (because lithium fires are really unpleasant - hence why there are flight restrictions on lithium batteries). I don't think the battery would actually catch fire, but it's probably best not to mess with it.

edit: h34r: by MWeston himself, excellent!

 

[Sphinxter]

So what happens if you do? Will the battery explode?

Actually it is not explosion exactly. It is just loud puff, catch fire, big flames and lot of smell.

Don't forget a bath in scorching hot toxic waste and needing a hazmat crew to clean it up.

 

[SomeGuy99]

The battery doesn't catch fire, it just gets charged with a 0.5C load which didn't change the temperature of the battery but since it is not controlled, it could be an issue potentially.

I think some people are still missing the fact that running without a battery is an UNOFFICIAL feature. The owner's manual clearly states that you run the unit with a battery installed. I've made that clear in the past. It's just a bonus feature even TI doesn't support well and they call it a test mode too.

Well since I read your original post, I know not to do it. Anyone else who reads the manual will know this too, which is cool. However, I can't help but think that an accident is waiting to happen. Sorry, I do worry about people burning to death in their home!

h34r:

You say it's very unlikely?

 

[Alpha2]

Most Li-Po batteries from what I've hear have safe guards but nothing is completely fool proof. Enough stupidity could eventually result in a fire or at least deformation of the battery.

So what I'm getting from all this is that the optimal first use of the Pandora should be:
1. insert battery (causing instant start up)
2. plug in recharging power supply
3. do your first time set up
4. shut down Pandora and let fully charge or use in a low powered state so that you dont use more power than the the charger can supply the battery.

 

[XxionxX]

Most Li-Po batteries from what I've hear have safe guards but nothing is completely fool proof. Enough stupidity could eventually result in a fire or at least deformation of the battery.

So what I'm getting from all this is that the optimal first use of the Pandora should be:
1. insert battery (causing instant start up)
2. plug in recharging power supply
3. do your first time set up
4. shut down Pandora and let fully charge or use in a low powered state so that you dont use more power than the the charger can supply the battery.

So I shouldn't use it after the set up? I should just shut it down and let it charge for 8hrs? Because I would like to play with it between steps 3-4 if that would not make it explode into a brick of death. This is really nerve racking, I feel like I am going to brick it before I can use it. :blink:

 

[mtaylor]

Hi guys, I think I am the person to help you sleep better at night. I have a little experience with battery technology and more importantly, have been informed by other scientists who actually develop battery technology.

Your battery is not a lithium bomb.

Lithium battery fires result from the solvent in the battery catching fire, NOT the lithium. Metal fires such as lithium, magnesium and cesium fires are a result of an oxidation reaction with the metal by either oxygen or water. There is no lithium metal in a lithium-ion battery. Just lithium ions, that have already been oxidized!

With that in mind, lithium batteries fail all the time without catching fire. If you have ever seen a bulging lithium ion battery, you know what I am talking about. The danger of fire only happens if a failed battery begins to overheat and the heat cannot be removed from the battery fast enough. Large batteries are more prone to this problem because they have a smaller surface area to volume ratio than a smaller battery. The battery inside the pandora is only a little bigger than a cellphone battery and should be nothing to worry about.

I hope this helps.

 

[LineOf7s]

Excellent reassurances from mtaylor.

If you have a shiny new Pandora, for some reason the battery is dead, and you wanna play with it RIGHT NOW (as one does) then all you gotta do is remove the battery before you plug it in, per this:

When no battery is inserted, the power goes through the charging circuit directly into the Pandora.

This Post

When you're finished playing for the night (or whatever), TURN THE UNIT OFF AND UNPLUG IT, insert the battery, plug it back in and turn on the power... letting the battery charge gently while visions of sugar plums dance in your head.

Ta-dah!

 

[Alpha2]

Most Li-Po batteries from what I've hear have safe guards but nothing is completely fool proof. Enough stupidity could eventually result in a fire or at least deformation of the battery.

So what I'm getting from all this is that the optimal first use of the Pandora should be:
1. insert battery (causing instant start up)
2. plug in recharging power supply
3. do your first time set up
4. shut down Pandora and let fully charge or use in a low powered state so that you dont use more power than the the charger can supply the battery.

So I shouldn't use it after the set up? I should just shut it down and let it charge for 8hrs? Because I would like to play with it between steps 3-4 if that would not make it explode into a brick of death. This is really nerve racking, I feel like I am going to brick it before I can use it. :blink:

I wasn't exactly stating it as fact. Mostly suggesting that because the battery only comes partly charged when you get your Pandora, it's not really the best time to launch into a 10 hour marathon (Unless you remove the battery after your 1st time set up and just run on the adapter). Just seems like a better move to just get the battery charging out of the way rather than jump in and start draining your battery before it's had a chance to fully charge. The Pandora was designed to be unbrickable at worst were just talking about killing the life span of the battery so as long as you exercise a bit of caution it sounds like you'll be fine.

I think when people saw a couple of extreme cases on youtube they got paranoid about these batteries, but those were cases where batteries were broken and people made special efforts to achieve spectacular failures so I dont think we need to worry about loosing a hand anytime soon.

 

[neogramps]

Tbh i'm not surprised the pandora needs a full charge before it starts behaving normally - every phone and handheld I've had for the last few years stated that it should be charged fully before use - this only changed with my most recent phone which came partially charged and was usable out the box.

 

[sold]

Mithrildor, until you have a problem with YOUR Pandora, STFU!